It was nothing, correct. Of those 12 goals, half were against one opponent (NY) and not a single other goal was against a top 12 club. The guy is getting 300k to get a few goals and a handful of assists (maybe) against bottom feeders. Let's not forget that he has been injured about as much as he's played and will likely continue to either struggle or be injured. Hamdi Salihi, Maicon Santos, DeRo and even DeLeon scored more goals against top 12 teams than Pontius last year. Robbie Russell and Woolard matched him in the endeavor. "B...b.b...b...but he was an allstar!" That was a mistake.
You want to replace Pontius? You want to replace Korb? You want to replace Porter? You want to replace Woolard? You want to replace Towsend? Feel free to let me know who off this list you want that you think is better than anyone you want to replace. The object lesson here is that there are not better players here in the United States than what we have right now, so lets stay in the real world, please.
I guess re: DiVaio's second goal, someone should point out that he cut back very sharply and inch perfect to set up the shot, and at a point in Jak's stride that made it impossible for him to counter in time. Then he curled it around Hamid and back inside the right post. Might as well be me. Everyone in the stadium knows Pontius is going to cut back on his right too, and, somehow, he always seems to find that half a yard anyway. Jak was trying to force DeVaio to use his left, but the good players do what they want when they get into those spots, which is why you don't let them get into those spots.
There's this thing called an offseason- a time that will be particularly important since we have pissed away our last 2 windows to select international talent. Let's not forget that several intra-league trades have been effective for teams in MLS (many of which were poopoo'd by posters here but now they are strangely quiet). But hey, NASL is all we got right! So clearly Pontius and scrubs like Porter are worth it for the long term!
When you come up with a better option I am all ears. To make trades within the league you have to give up talent to get talent, most of the time. (We can't expect Roy Wergerle trades as in the past or this year's Toronto trade for Silva where they try to make room for a player they don't get "Forlan") Aside from that I have no other way to replace anyone aside from the NASL.
No other way to replace anyone until the offseason. Right. I never said the replacement should come immediately, but we should definitely consider numerous moves come October/November.
Trust me, I have a Pontius jersey and it pains me to say "dump Pontius." He's not contributing though, and he's massively injury prone. He also makes more salary than Bill Hamid, Luis Silva, Conor Doyle and a few of the young guys combined. Are we getting a return on the investment from a guy who hasn't 'blown up' yet and likely won't ever?
No one was on the same page with that sub. Silva is racing off the field (because we have momentum and thinks we are going for the win). Neal is telling him to slow down and take his time coming off the field (because he was told that we are looking for the tie). It was a very telling moment which led to the huge surprise that we allowed another goal. Completely agree with DCUSA. Can't believe we took our best offensive player off of the field at that moment.
So Columbus and Montreal weren't top 12 last year? Newsflash. They were. That makes 7 goals against top 12 teams last year; accordingly, it would be impossible for Salihi, Santos, DeRo, and DeLeon to score more goals against top 12 teams than Pontius last year. Next time, get your facts straight instead of being the someone who makes a mistake.
At the time we played them? Not close. So yes, my facts are very straight. Montreal was a mighty 5-10-3 and Columbus was a slightly better 8-8-4. They barely broke into the top 12 (Montreal 12 and Columbus 10) by the end of the year. NY was a contender all year on the other hand. Also, 7 goals against top 12 teams. What a joke. Let's assume your argument isn't wrong to start with (as I demonstrate in paragraph 1), he scored 5 of those alleged 7 against one team in 2 games. What did he do with the rest of his time besides struggle to get his patented 'cut in from the left and shoot a weak curler to the right side of the net' and fail? DeLeon on the other hand had a goal against Columbus when they actually were top 12 as well as goals against New York. Just stopping there, he exceeds what Pontius did in terms of producing across multiple games versus different opponents of higher quality. Let's hear some more snarky remarks to support this team's dead weight. He has such a handsome jawline, surely that is your next retort? But perhaps Daniel Woolard will challenge him with his rugged chin.
Here is the point. Chris Pontius is not a guy we can build a team around because he is too fragile and unreliable. Chris Pontius is not a guy we can count on to set up assists in a similar fashion to other elite wingers or central mid fielders. Chris Pontius is not a guy we can count on for goals against quality teams. Yet he is one of the highest paid guys on the club and has 1 goal and 2 assists in almost less minutes than James Riley.
I think it's fair enough to say that nothing should be off the table. With that said I think it's pretty obvious that Pontius's trade value has decreased this year. I think he's worth more to us as a player than any potential value we can get in a trade. It's too much to expect to have an MLS team swallow that big salary and give up real value in a trade. Of course you could trade Pontius for peanuts if you think the salary dump itself is worth it. But are we really bumping up against the cap? Not even close. We're way below max. We still have tons of allocation money. And several big contracts are expiring after this season (De Ro, Pajoy, Ruiz ...). Taking all that into consideration I don't think the cap is a good reason to get rid of Pontius. So what reason do you have to get rid of him? You say he doesn't produce and is too injury prone. I say let's look at his numbers. His first 4 seasons in the league he averages over 25 games per season and over 6 goals per season. We'll see how he finishes up 2013 ... those numbers probably will go down a bit. But still 25 out of 34 games isn't exactly Onyewu-like. 6 goals is also not bad for a guy that's mostly played as a left winger. So it's hard to see how you can claim there's no value there. There is some talent and production that can be exploited there ... and the guy is just entering his prime years. If you're advocating replacing Pontius you're essentially advocating replacing the entire team. There's really only 2 or 3 players on the team in the same talent level as Pontius. Do you think it's wise to enter 2014 with maybe as many as 20 roster positions to fill? At some point you have to suck it up and have a little faith in some of the guys you have here. Otherwise you end up like Toronto where every offseason you start from scratch.
This is kind of the position we were in with Porter at the beginning of the year. Everyone on the team could have been jettisoned early on, but we kept saying 'well we have to at least keep Porter and 'ok' players A, B and C because they are the only guys trying.' We're going to end up keeping bad players just because literally trading or releasing 15+ guys is a sign of total weakness and failure for the FO, even if it's the smart thing to do. Guys like Porter and Korb will stick around because Riley and Saragosa and on are so bad. Will this mindset force us to keep Old Man Thorrington or DeRo? Those 'fringe players' [i.e. guys that MIGHT have a great season or a terrible one] like Pontius and DeLeon might fetch a decent trade or maybe we can just straight replace them? Who knows. I am just suggesting that we not marry ourselves to anyone in particular. Everyone is replaceable on this team right now. So honestly, if we can negotiate Pontius down 50-80k salary he'd be a decent keep for now. At 360k? He better start producing and quick. I have a feeling that he gets a raise though, knowing United. 360k is a signal that this is your guy. He's a non-DP and that places him in the same category as George John, Brad Davis, Kyle Beckerman, or Javier Morales. He's not 'the guy' for us and likely never will be. As a 250-280k a year guy, ok, fine, now we're in the Aurelian Colin zone and he's probably in there somewhere. I just think we need to stop thinking of Pontius as better than he is because he is the only artifact of older times in DC at the young age of 26, or, worse yet, out of fear that the huge turnover will make us somehow worse than 3-17-4 with a -25 goal differential with 10 games left. The following would be my plan if I ran things. This is the only core for this team right now to build off to me: 1. Dejan Jakovic - At a reduced salary rate (at least 50k) 2. Chris Pontius - At a reduced salary rate (at least 50k) 3. Luis Silva - Starter, increased salary 4. Ethan White - Depth only 6. Perry Kitchen - Hopefully only small 20k salary bump at most 7. Jarod Jeffrey - Depth 8. Bill Willy William Jefferson Hamid 9. Joe Bruce Willis 10. Conor Doyle - Small pay bump, hopefully we can get for another term Keep and send to Richmond or sit on bench to apprentice (or sit on bench as super third string depth): 1. Collin Martin - Send to Richmond 2. Taylor Kemp - Send to Richmond 3. Conor Shanosky - Send to Richmond 4. Andrew Dykstra - Promote if Hamid goes away 5. Michael Seaton - One more year at Richmond Take them or leave them (likely keep them): 1. Nick DeLeon - Keep if no real salary increase 2. Bill Hamid - If he wants to go, let him go, use money on players 100% gone: 1. Dennis Iapachino 2. Chris Korb 3. Lewis Neal 4. Sainey Nyassi 5. Lionard Pajoy 6. Kyle Porter 7. James Riley 8. Carlos Ruiz 9. Marcelo Saragosa 10. John Thorrington 11. Casey Townsend 12. Daniel Woolard #1 Indonesia Messi Where is He? 1. Syamsir Alam Final analysis: So even in my dream scenario we're talking salary reductions and at most 13 player turnover. That isn't so bad, is it? Quite doable. Hell, if we played it smart, we get 9-10 and get a few more as the season progresses, rather the full assortment in the offseason.
Where am I moving the goalposts? Looking at ranking, record and stats AT THE TIME TEAMS WERE PLAYED rather than AT SEASONS END is not moving the goalposts- it's called being precise. Take a look at Vancouver in 2012. In the first half of the season they were 8-4-5. In the second half of the season they were 3-9-5. They ended the season at 11-13-10 and made it to the knockout round of the playoffs (ending the regular season in 11th place- 'top 12'). So if we played Vancouver in game 10 or game 30, which team would be easier to beat? Don't answer, it's rhetorical and obvious. Let's be clear about something here. It's clear you don't know what a straw man is. I am not misinterpreting your position and refuting the false argument- but in fact am clarifying my original statement that Pontius did not score against more than 1 top 12 team across the regular season. If you wish to move the goalposts and give someone (Pontius) credit for 'scoring on a top 12 team' using end of the year standings when the team faced was, say, 2-8-5 at the time the game was played (midseason) then I will refute it as imprecise.
Not as embarrassingly bad as previous games this year, but still not very good. Loved the goal. Riley and Porter offer nothing on the left, except for the occasional random bombardment of spectators behind the goal (well behind). Korb and DeLeon don't offer much more. Do the defenders practice together? Seems like there is no communication back there.
Jakovic was basically responsible for both goals. It's one of the things that is so frustrating with this guy. On his good days, he can shut down opposing strikers and ping the ball around really well. On his bad days....well Saturday was one of his bad days. He looked like he didn't have a clue how to defend. Inconsistency is not something you can have in a CB. These team is so screwed from a talent standpoint, especially in the defense. I have pity on the next coach (please let this be soon and not in a few years) and what they'll have to work with.
This game is being shown again this evening on CSN. I never thought I'd actually wish for less exposure for DC United on TV.
I agree in Hamid, sell sell sell. I hold DeLeon in a little higher esteem. He's good for a COLA, but that's about it after this year. You say 100% gone, and I'd quibble with these: Korb Iapachino Neal Porter Thorrington Townsend Woolard I think the reality is you have to bring most of these guys into camp, recruit other players, and see who wins the roster spots. And honestly, I'd say Woolard as a backup, Thorrington as a backup, and Korb (depending on how he finishes the season) have already earned their spots for next year, somewhere on the depth chart. I find it interesting that despite the huffing and puffing, your plan is almost no different from mine.
Why does everyone want Woolard gone? He's at a reasonable salary and has been our most consistent defender all year. He plays through injuries and has been solid playing two positions. He's exactly the hard-nosed, hard-working defender you need. He's no speed demon, and he's had a few mistakes, but he makes up for that with sound positioning and good decision-making. If we bring in more technically gifted and faster defenders who are better, then we can move him to a back-up role, but those types of defenders are rare and expensive. I say keep Woolard and worry about the other members of the back-line first.