DC vs LD

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by T Nitty, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. T Nitty

    T Nitty New Member

    Jun 3, 2004
    MD
    Now that Landon has his 3rd ring with 2 different teams, how would you compare him with United? Yeah, we have 4 trophies, but LD is making a run of his own. Plus, he often wears the captain's armband for the US, and he has Nike's marketing force. DC has the best fans in the league and some of the best players have worn the Red & Black.

    Who has had the biggest impact on the leagues first decade? Who will be remembered in 50 years?

    Yeah, it's the offseason, and I'm taking a break from World Cup discussion.
     
  2. writered21

    writered21 Member+

    Jul 14, 2001
    Middle of the Road
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I could see this comparison a little more clearly if LD had won his 3 Cups with the same team.
     
  3. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I think a fairer comparison is between LD and Goose.

    A player leaves the game after a while. A team remains, and, in the long run, will always have more trophies (and thus more impact) than any single player.
     
  4. spidergoose

    spidergoose Member

    Nov 2, 2004
    Annapolis
    Club:
    DC United
    Finally somebody else gets it. I am way cooler than Landon Donovan.
     
  5. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    Prettier too. :p
     
  6. spidergoose

    spidergoose Member

    Nov 2, 2004
    Annapolis
    Club:
    DC United
    Increasingly same hair though. :(
     
  7. gnat

    gnat New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    Put LandyCakes on the field against even our reserves and he gets his ass handed to him every game.

    Matt has it right though. While being far less known, I think Goose has accomplished more (not only did he win three 3 rings with us, he was (a big imho) part of turning around a pathetic club and helping them win two cups of their own (a feat only done by one other club until this year). Jeff didn't really have the marketability of LD, but I think he's a much better player and person all around and I think it's fitting that he has half the Rings given out during the first 10 years of MLS.

    -dave
     
  8. gocaps

    gocaps Member

    Sep 23, 2000
    With the SEs in 134
    I'm as big an Agoos fan as you'll find here, but I think there's a strong argument to be made that the arrival of Donovan was the catalyst in turning around that pathetic club as much as Agoos' arrival. Yes, Jeff stabilized them with leadership and excellent two-way play from central defense, but Donovan was the star of that Quakes team.

    And there's also a real argument at this point, now that Donovan has won another MLS Cup with a different team, that he's the best player in league history already. I still think Jaime wins that one, but it may not be much longer, particularly if LD keeps winning trophies.
     
  9. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    Can we agree not to talk about hair?
     
  10. spidergoose

    spidergoose Member

    Nov 2, 2004
    Annapolis
    Club:
    DC United
    Guess the only real solution is to get Jaime one for the thumb next year, huh? :p
     
  11. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    unless the team in question is based in NJ :D
     
  12. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    If we can agree that "in the long run" goes until hell freezes over, I think the Metros are still in the running
     
  13. DCSharksFC

    DCSharksFC Member

    Feb 28, 2003
    Virginia Tech
    in 50 years, people will remember:

    landon donovan
    jaime moreno
    jeff agoos
    jesse marsch
    eddie pope
    etcheverry

    and thats those off the top of my head who've won more than 2 cups, if that's what we're basing this on, when did etch leave?

    donovan may win a few, but he didn't do it back to back in sj, jaime was there for 4 straight years, and jesse was there for 3, and then 2 more w/ the fire in losing efforts, i'd pay attention to that a little more than just the victories, although having a ring vs not having one is huge as well
     
  14. gnat

    gnat New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    I'm not denying LD's part, but I think it is significant that their turn around started when they aquired Goose and he took the armband.

    Again, Goose did it well before him (and did it multiple times with each team suggesting that it wasn't a fluke) and technically speaking our own Brandon has two rings from two different teams too.

    I think LD has a lot of growing up and a few more WCs to show up for before he can "compete" with Goose. I'm not knocking his skills, just saying that Goose has more accomplishments to his name so far.

    -dave
     
  15. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I don't know. I think Jesse Marsch is well on his way to being forgotten already.

    I'd put Richie Williams far above him. Richie won championships at every level of soccer he played.
     
  16. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    By the time he's done Donovan should hold a bunch of all-time MLS records that won't be even threatened for decades and decades. Why? Because even now players close to being as good as he are going for the bucks in Europe. That he came back to MLS will be increasingly viewed as idiosyncratic. Hell, it already is.

    For different reasons but with similar results, Moreno will probably hold a bunch of foreign player records that will hold up for a long time too. Players (especially scorers) of Donovan's and Moreno's caliber just won't normally have all or most of their careers in MLS for a long time.
     
  17. T Nitty

    T Nitty New Member

    Jun 3, 2004
    MD
    For the record (thought it hurts to see this)...

    Los Angeles Galaxy (10-9-5) vs. D.C. United (11-7-5)
    August 20, 2005 -- RFK Stadium

    Scoring Summary:
    LA -- own goal (Bobby Boswell) 28
    DC -- Bryan Namoff 1 (Christian Gomez 6) 37
    LA -- Landon Donovan 8 (unassisted) 53
    DC -- Jaime Moreno 10 (penalty kick) 66
    LA -- Landon Donovan 9 (Cobi Jones 5) 67


    Anyway, as a United fan, the team will definitely dominate my early memories of MLS. From their own perspective, when the media and other fans look back on the league in 50 years, will they immediately think of LD or will they call it the decade of DC? I'm sorry, but I really doubt Agoos will be remembered as the face of the league. I'm not talking about ranking the top ten teams or players of MLS. From my view United and Landon have been the most dominant and/or most popular aspects of the league. While I would love for DC to be the lasting image of the early years (and beyond), the league has promoted the crap out of the balding boy wonder, and he seems to be backing it up. If LA had not won this year, there would be no real argument, but the fact is they did. DC has had their international accomplishments to boost their image, but Landon also has WC '02. If he goes off in Germany, it is very possible that he will overshadow United's accomplishments when the average fan looks back in several years.

    I agree with the statement about Donovan doing the opposite of the other standouts and not going to Europe. Who knows how that will affect his image down the road? He may be lauded as a hero that stayed to support the little league that could. I don't think MLS will let him be remembered as a homesick nancy-boy. I would like to see United ('96-'05) remembered as teams in other leagues (the Celtics, the Steel Curtain, etc.), and continue a long tradition of winning. I don't think there's any argument we won the greatest game played in the '04 conference finals.

    Perhaps Landon will own the next 10 years, but I think DC United's Decade of Dominance will be the first chapter in MLS history.
     
  18. gocaps

    gocaps Member

    Sep 23, 2000
    With the SEs in 134
    God damn it, why'd you have to go and do that? LD waxed us up and down the field in that game. I don't want to remember it any more than I already do.

    To be fair, I think gnat was being cheeky and saying what would happen if LD by himself took on 11 of our reserves.
     
  19. gocaps

    gocaps Member

    Sep 23, 2000
    With the SEs in 134
    But LD came in the same year.
    Like I said before, I love Agoos. Love him. But no one will ever say that Agoos was the catalyst for any of the teams he won titles with. He wasn't even the best defender on the United teams that won those championships (both Pope and Llamosa were better at the time), and Etch, Jaime, Roy/RDA, Harkes et. al. were all at least as important to the team's overall success as Agoos was. His main contributions were as a solid defender who was a nasty free kick taker (in SJ, where he had the chance to take them) and an excellent team leader. A great MLS player, no doubt. But he may not even be the best defender in MLS history. Pope - who was pure class for about 8 seasons - probably is, although a solid case can be made for both Jeff and Lubos Kubik.

    LD, on the other hand, was clearly the central figure on all three title teams he played on, to the point that each was far weaker when he was away on WC duty.

    Bitch about his attitude all you want. Hell, all of us do. But the bottom line is that when the guy is on an MLS field, his team freakin' wins and he's the primary reason why.
     
  20. Publius

    Publius Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agoos always reminded me of those players like Charles Haley, David Henderson and Don Baylor who were very, very good players who always ended up in the playoffs with whatever team they were playing for. Was Agoos the best player in the league at his position during his run of championship appearances? No, but he obviously had a certain quality about him that made his teams better because he was there.

    LD has those qualities, too, but he's an actual difference maker, where Agoos wasn't. The problem is that I don't think he'll ever get over the reputation for being soft for cutting and running from Germany to come back to MLS.
     
  21. ThePuck

    ThePuck New Member

    Apr 16, 2005
    D.C., M.F., W?!?!
    Arce, Etcheverry, and good old Pope. Lassiter will always be one of my favorites. But Agoos? C'mon people, that guy has "clown-bait" written all over him, head to toe. What a bamma...
     
  22. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    It's not the rings, it's whether the player is a bona fide difference maker. Certainly LD is more of that than Agoos, but also LD is far less of that than El Diablo in his prime. LD still can disappear for large stretches of time. This thread reminds me of the who was better Gretzky or Messier in hockey. I always choose Messier for two reasons: 1) he won a Cup in Edmonton without Gretzky and another in New York, while Gretzky only won with Messier; and 2) both could score a ton, but Messier also could put someone through the boards (in fact he relished that), while Gretzky couldn't or wouldn't.
     
  23. gnat

    gnat New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    It was a joke ;)

    The original post was Landy against DC, not Landy on a team against DC.

    I'll never argue that he can't be a good player when he puts his mind to it, just that he is yet another major league player that whines like a little ......

    -dave
     
  24. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I can't believe you guys hate Chicago so much that you won't concede that a team of mini-Ditkas would crush LD under da busss...
     
  25. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    You don't need mini-Ditkas, just Ditka against LD, Ditka wins.
     

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