This is MLS. You can make such a list of players for nearly every team with more than 4 or 5 years of history. Plus, we have been told, by this coach, about the virtues of players brought in. Sorely, some of that is puffing, but I am NOT convinced that this coach knows how to pick roster players that can add something. He surely does not know how to develop young players. Those are part of the job. Win or lose, I would like to see a cohesive squad that seems to know what it is doing. He fails at that. I have supported plenty of teams over the course of my life that do not win big, and stuck with them. So I understand weak rosters, weak ownership, etc. But this? This is dreck, even from the coach.
Let us not forget, Ben has also had some decent players up top. This is a collective failure...ownership, GM, coach, players. I’ve watched a lot of this tournament, and I have to say we were probably the worst team I’ve seen play. If not the worst, perhaps second worst. We were stale, had no depth to use, utilized terrible tactics, and played a defensive midfielder by nature as a number 9. We are at least 5 or 6 quality players away from competing at a decent level. Embarrassing.
So who do you want as a realistic replacement? I will agree that Ben is not a great coach at developing talent, so he's not the coach you'd want in Dallas who relies heavily on the academy, that's not DCU's model. Even still, Birnbaum was drafted and brought along by Ben. He gave Durkin his shot and developed him into a million dollar player. I have no idea how many home grown or draftee players an MLS team "should" have contributing to game day results. So enlight me, who should he have developed? Who have we cast off thats gone on to become something significantly bigger/better elsewhere? In regard to @shawn12011 list of has/never was beens, I'll direct you to the fact that in 8 of 10 years, Ben has gotten this team to perform better than the rank of the payroll compared to the other teams in the league? Explain how that's not a success. I would love to see this team win an MLS Cup, but I am pragmatic about how that all actually works. Only SKC in 2013 & Colorado in 2010 weren't a top 5 payroll. Only once in the past 5 years has an MLS Cup finalist not been a top 10 payroll team (Crew 2015). Its increasingly a spend to win league and we don't spend. The fact that Kasper compiles a roster of retreads and mostly bargain players that Ben then gets to outperform the spend is not to be thrown into the wind. Even our bigger spend players lag behind the quality of what other teams get for their big money players or in a more balanced setting 1-18 has better quality than we have 1-18. We've mostly stayed out of what would be the relegation spots in the table were this Europe on a relegation budget is not trivial. I think your blame is misplaced. Its ownership is almost entirely who are at fault for the current state of DC United. You seem to want a fine dining outcome on a food bank shopping spree. Kasper occasionally finds some steak at the food bank mislabeled as ground beef and sometimes Ben turns humble ingredients into something better than the sum of its parts.
Most on this board freely admit ownership isn't capable of spending to compete. Its the only reason Ben is here. Because they know nobody else would deal with this BS and Ben knows that he can keep his loser ways without getting fired.
With his potential and his YNT success Durkin being developed into only $1M is a negative. Especially considering the club turned down a loan deal with Leverkusen which had a option to buy that was $2-3M (Per the Athletic). I'd bet money that DC United could have sold Durkin for more than $1M after his performance in the U17 world cup. The fact that 3 years later thats all they could get is very telling of his "development"
Here is where we disagree. While you have conceded he isn't good at developing talent, you have nevertheless excused him from developing talent while also crediting him with Durkin. Did he develop Durkin as part of the DC squad, or did a team simply see a good player that they might be able to use despite Ben doing nothing for his development once he got a 1st team contract? Durkin could have been a good player here, but to my mind wasnt being used or developed properly by Ben. And if your argument is that the team doesnt want to buy high-priced players and thus our roster is what it is for Ben, I find it hard to believe that we also argue that it is not our model to develop our own talent from within. Either Ben has some say in that not being our model (it is a relatively cheap alternative) or no one believes that he can develop talent and thus goes another route (which also reflects poorly on him). I have already conceded that our ownership is not good. But I have also pointed out that I am the fan of multiple teams that don't win squat. Through it all though I expect those teams, like this team, should be able to field a lineup that does not consistently look like it is uncoached and simply running around the field hard. I do not think that is too much to ask. Lastly, the realistic replacement line is a cop-out to me. There is a gigantic world of people in the sport that are willing to take a job as a head coach in MLS ... many who are right here IN MLS. Ben has had a looooooong run as our coach, coming straight off the playing field. We could certainly find another would-be coach from that same position. Would we be any worse? So the list of realistic replacements is HUGE. It is not like he or she would be replacing Sir Alex Ferguson.
So you would replace Ben with???? Jovan Kirovski Ariel Pereyra Junior Gonzalez Josema Bazan Claudio Arzeno Nick Cushing Rob Vartughian Steve Guppy Brett Jacobs PETER LUCCIN MIKEY VARAS No one on that list makes me believe they could make chicken salad.
Do Ben's teams "play down" to the level of their talent, or do they "play up" and exceed what you would expect from their level of talent? If the latter, then Ben isn't a bad coach - he gets more from the roster than could reasonably be expected. If the former, then management/ownership is at fault for not opening their wallets and bringing in better (and more costly) talent. But they did so a year ago with Rooney, and look how well that worked out. To me, Ben isn't a coach that can make silk purses out of sows ears. He would do better with a more talented roster - but so would almost any other coach. The issue is: can the ownership improve the roster, and if so, can Ben make the improved squad more competitive? I happen to think that Ben is limited as a coach and would not necessarily have more success with an improved roster. (Remember how Rooney was clearly coaching on the pitch during matches.) So, it's a chicken vs. egg question: Do you improve the roster first or improve (i.e., replace) the coaching? I think the answer has to be both.
Yet no one has been able to give me a good option of who to replace Ben with. Anyone is not a valid answer.
It's ultimately my fault for taking the troll bait but Tab Ramos would have been a good option to replace Ben. He is familiar with the league and development of younger players which would benefit DC since we seem to finally be embracing our academy prospects. He could also actually communicate with all the players too which can't hurt. the ultimate problem is nobody worth anything will come here so we are stuck with a second rate coach who relies on grit and hasn't advanced in his craft in a decade.
Thank you for reminding me a Steve Guppy. I didn't realize he is coaching in MLS. How well I remember his sublime crosses from the left wing during his short sting with DCU.
Someone else is a fine answer. Ben has a 10 year record, he is what he is. Would "someone" do better? Who knows, but we do know that with Ben you get mediocrity and almost unwatchable soccer. Sure Levien won't spend and while Kasper is a cap genius (or so some claim), the talent evaluation is poor. Acquiring Gressel made no sense given how static DCU plays. Getting Kamara was a "safe" choice, but failing to get a competitive backup was malpractice. Flores is looking more like a misfire and Asad looks like the guy they locked out of the practice field at Velez. I assume Ben has input in those decisions, so the mess on the field is one that he helped create. "Someone" might do worse, much worse, but at least it would be different and I would rather have different that the same old same old.
There are plenty of young coaches out there who would be glad to take a MLS head coaching job, if for no other reason than to pad their resume. This thread has been going on for how long, and there have been numerous names listed; some were unrealistic due to being too grandiose/expensive for our ownership, but there are more than a few candidates who could do a better job than Ben, for similar (or not much more) money, IMHO. Unless, and until, DC gets a genuine sugar-daddy with deep pockets, we're not going to get a decent manager, coach, or anything other than 'Island of Misfit-toy' type players.
What I said was that he isn't great, but those were players who came up under him or we lucked into. You also didn't answer the question I asked, which was how many players need to be game day contributors that are developed. My argument is clear, quite clear, we don't spend enough to be competitive. We don't spend it on salary, player acquisition or the academy. When you're fielding a bottom third or quarter, how much beauty and/or success can you realistically expect? Players we've cut don't go to other teams in the league, they often don't even go to USL teams, they go find jobs outside of playing soccer. When those are choices you have off the bench, how can you expect the team to look good or even passable? Sure we spent a few bucks on Flores, but one upper end player without the right and decent complimentary players detracts from Flores' ability and the overall expectation of ROI. We're going to disagree here on who to get next, so fire Ben, get some other guy and 3-5 years later some other and then some other guy and so on, because you can't shine shit. My EPL team is West Ham, has been for almost 25 years. Glamor coaches, young/exciting up & comers, or tired retread after retread has proven to me that if ownership doesn't spend and spend well it doesn't matter who the coach is.
Everyone keeps talking about the wrong players around Flores. Where have we seen anything from his play to suggest that if we had Liverpool's roster around Flores would give us anything. Even when surrounded by crap player you see a spark or a flash of what a guy has. Flores has been just as pedestrian as the rest of this roster. So please, my friends, stop trying to sell me on Flores. I have at least seen flashes with Gressel, here and in Atlanta.
That is a much more persuasive argument than I've ever read for keeping him. Not that it is in your wheelhouse but do you think a great tactician as assistant will help get more out of this team, and is Pipa that guy?
Like I said before - you need either a system you fit players around or players you fit a supporting cast around. I can't see that DCU has either.
<insert trump 'wromg' gif here> I put Schelotto out there and he came to MLS eventually. I put BIelsa up there before Leeds snatched him up and the USA nats snubbed him. I put Bielsa's #2 Corberan up there, but now he's going to Huddersfield Fing Town. All three would have come to the USA prior to their current gigs (Schelotto is in MLS now). We could still get Marcello Gallardo as well. Finally, Diego Reyes (Bielsa's #3 and apparent #2) would also come to coach in MLS. I'm a huge BIelsa fan as he prefers to manage a small roster, values fitness, plays attractive soccer, and knows how to handle a dense schedule in a physical league. Reyes has been with Bielsa for a long time and would have no trouble attracting South American talent.
In non-Olsen sucking discussion, Martins got a game suspension for the stomp that should have been red in the 35th minute.... D.C. United MF Felipe Martins has been suspended one regular season match and fined an undisclosed amount for "serious foul play" against Montreal's Victor Wanyama on Tuesday. He received a yellow card. #dcu #mls— Steven Goff (@SoccerInsider) July 23, 2020
Let me get out my rolodex and I’ll let you know. As a season ticket holder I understand that it is my responsibility to provide a list of potential coaches to replace Ben Olsen.
This debate about Ben could have its own thread - that's right, it does. My question - if Ben were fired tomorrow would he land a head coach position in the league within the next couple of years? The other clubs know Ben very well, and if he's really a good coach who's been victimized by poor talent he'd be snapped up quickly. I don't think that would happen, because I believe he's considered to be a great guy who's a a mediocre at best pro coach.
while viable candidates none of them impress me. I am not saying I am right but I am not impressed by any of them.
It is not about you being a season ticket holder, which thankfully I am no longer one, it is about you being a Fire Ben person.