DC to Sign Rosas ?

Don't we have enough 5' 5" youngsters?

If the dude can get the ball in the back of the net, why not. Who would have to go to make room?

 

I'm a bit confused. Is Rosas a defensive midfielder? The article in the Times said this, "A day later, the club acquired former United midfielder Richie Williams, a player similar in style to Rosas." So is he a nasty defensive midfielder who also scored 30 goals in 2 years? Sign him up! Also, if he's 22 he might count as a transitional international, a further bonus.

 

i guess this is who hudson was talking about when he said a bargian. rosas can't go to europe because the window closed so he has to come here. then the SoS sign williams taking away cap room and a spot.

as for people leaving we would have to cut two. that ali is not doing well and alegria is making hudson frustrated with him maybe those two will get the axe. just my 2 cents.

 

Whatever. If we can steal a guy from Nick, I'm all for it.

 

Okay, this is happening pretty quickly. First, this is happening through Stoichkov. This probably explains (just a guess) why Barcelona has refused to sign the papers releasing Rosas. I had heard (and wasn't paying attention so I may have this garbled) that Rosas either had a green card (American wife) or doesn't count as an SI (b/c of age). Also, SoS was penciling him in as an A-mid. I've never seen him play so I don't know what the Richie Williams comment (about similar style) means. I imagine it's conceivable that he's a holding mid candidate (and thus the ABMOD comment). In which case, I think our team just got much better. Also, we'd probably have to do some contract reshuffling (I'd heard rumors that Rosas was going to get somewhere around $140K from the SoS, which actually sounds low to me).

Rosas has now left Bradenton (where the SoS were training). Interestingly enough, supposedly so have Dillon Shephard (their SA international) who has returned for home and their Independiente mid (Gennaro) as well. With the injuries to Mathis and Lisi, the SoS have a major hurt going on in midfield at the moment. Their first team A-mid would probably be....rookie Ricardo Clark. He's good, but he's not that good (not yet anyway).

 

No--the SoS have been talking about Rosas as a lock to start at A-mid for them. AMBOD's signing has no impact on Rosas in that regard. Rosas was not signed b/c Barcelona didn't release him (his old club Alvaes did but Barcelona has rights on him and wouldn't sign off--so Rosas was practicing with the SoS for a couple of weeks and I'd bet that Stoichkov and Hudson have had a chance to see him against MLS talent).

I would have to think that this (Rosas leaving camp) is not what Bradley wants or plans on. He was being talked about as a definite starter until this happened. Again, I haven't seen him play. Still, Stoichkov is high on him--that counts for something.

One other point, many of us earlier were of the "no, not SToichkov camp." Now we've got Ivanov and possibly Rosas b/c of Stoichkov. If either or both of those deals turn out to be winners, than the Stoichkov deal may have been a blockbuster.

 

i was just paraphrasing from the article

 

I feel for John Haydon. He's a good writer. But clearly someone edited his piece without his final approval.

The piece reads like this:

... but I think he probably originally wrote something like "Richie Williams, a player similar in stature to Rosas." I'm guessing the word "style" wasn't in Haydon's original piece, but that the editor mis-edited the meaning. That sucks.

Mario (the name that Rosas is actually known by) is said to be a great little tricky dribbling machine with good vision. His weak points are that he plays no defense, holds the ball too much, and is small so he gets pushed around a lot. He sounds like the polar opposite of Richie, who is a tenacious and savvy defender, distributes the ball quickly but isn't the greatest passer or dribbler. The one thing that they both share is their height.

-Tron

 

Yeah, that's what I thought too. So the questions that comes to mind here are:

- How much salary will the kid want and what might that do to our current cap position?

- How can we sign him out from under the metros' noses? Don't the metros still have their allocation which would give them first dibs? If so, what would we have to trade for him?

 

So much for Chino.

I'd imagine, given the description of Rosas that he'd be a backup for Marco. He sounds like a Spanish Vaca. However, since I don't see Chino as a winger or a defensive type MF, I'd say if if this Mario is really signed, Chino's days are numbered which is really sad in a way. I'm all for getting better players, etc. but it's really a shame how this seems to be working out.

Edited to add: I've read where he'd be around 100K? I'd say DC has some room to wiggle and without Chino they'd about double that room, so maybe they'd only need a minimum salary to seal the deal? So Curtis is a goner too? However, I wonder what this scenario would do to the Digi situation?

As for the Metros, some on their board are saying Bradley doesn't want him so "stealing" him could be a bit of a stretch.

 

Well my guess is that would solve our left wing problems, as both Convey and Mario could play either left winger or central attacking midfielder. This would put some of the younger midfielders in a precarious position, as Alegria--as Marco10 points out--becomes duplicative, and Mario's skill set also overlaps with Eliseo, who would move further down the roster. Namoff is still safe though, as he and Carroll are our only Dmid backups and they can each serve as reserves along the back line as well.

My guess is that he'd be a TI, so we wouldn't need an SI spot.

I imagine that Mario would be a Discovery pick, much like the Burn are possibly using one on Tyson Nunez. Odd turn of events if the Burn end up stealing Nunez after thinking they had dibbs on Stewart, and then we steal Mario after the Metros appeared to have a lock on him. Wierdness.

Again, there aren't many players with the salary to accomodate adding a 140k player, so if we're moving someone it looks like someone like Prideaux would need to be moved. Frankly, I'd much prefer to have Prideaux's dependability and flexibility in back than adding yet another attacking midfielder. If we add another starting caliber offensive player it should be a target forward IMHO, not another midfielder.

He sounds like a good player and a good value, but only 11 can play, and with our small roster and miniscule salary cap, we cannot afford all-star bench warmers. Even if Mario starts, who moves to the bench? Convey, our offensive hub and best young American? Olsen, our All-Star and fiery leader? Dema, our impressive new acquisition and former All-Star?, Etch, our max-salaried All-Star and team icon? It just doesn't make sense IMHO. I realize Convey and Olsen will have Nat's commitments and that injuries and discipline (Dema) cause players to miss time, so there probably is enough playing time to spread around. But wouldn't 140k have more impact along the forward line?

-Tron

 

I think you're exactly right about how that big a salary should be spent. That's also why I don't think he's ging to cost that much. First of all, 140K would hardly be a "bargain" for a backup player no matter how good he is (and there's no guarantee he is any good for that matter, Bradley seems to not want him for example). Second, I find it hard to believe the Metros could afford anyone, much less this kid at 140K. If anything, they've gotta be more cap-strapped than we are and that's before signing Richie. Third, I don't think it's a coincidence that Rosas left the Metros camp and they immediately signed Richie. I would imagine if they wanted Rosas, they would've used Richie's money to get him. That leads to two conclusions. One, that Bradley doesn't want him, and two that Rosas is worth around what Richie would make (and I have no doubt he signed for much less than he made last year).

 

1st, there has been no indication that Bradley didn't want Mario. Mario left camp. That is something completely different.

2nd, People in the European community were shocked to hear that Mario was set to sign for 200k (the 100 + figure was AFTER the pro-rating from the allocation), so unless Stoichkov has some hold on the kid beyond words, he's not coming in as a minimum salary player.

3rd, whether DC wants him or not, unless MLS makes some new drastic rule change regarding salary cap (which you don't have) and player acquisitions (no allocations or discoveries in your wallet either), I don't see how Mario ends up there. Bradley isn't stupid enough to let a good young player go to a conference rival for nothing.

4th, after the dumping of salary after the Pope deal (Balboa, Williams and Paule) the Metros were reported to be 300k under the cap, so they were capable of signing him. Williams signed for a good deal less than his old salary, so he's not taking up too much space, and Bradley recently said he could fit both Mario and Daniel Garnero under the cap, so Metro cap space isn't the situation here.

5th, and final point, if what some of you are suggesting is true, that Stoichkov talked Mario out of signing with the Metros and talked to Barca about holding up papers, this sets a dangerous precedent when it comes to player signings. That equates to player tampering and would be a giant step in the wrong direction.

 

Some more info here on Rosas here.
1. There was a rumor that Bradley wasn't impressed with his defense (only a rumor--didn't hear anything to substantiate that).
2. While Rosas and ABMOD are clearly not the same kind of player, it's not inconceivable that Rosas was signed to be a holding midfielder. In otherwords, he and Kovakenko could be competing for positions.
3. No allocation used on Rosas, he comes on a free transfer. Thus, the SoS have no hold on him. in fact, he cannot currently sign with MLS at the moment b/c Barcelona have not released their rights to him. I'm guessing that Stoichkov has something to do with that.
4. The rep on Rosas is that he's a dedicated footballer--very good conditioning, doesn't party or play around, practices hard, is in very good shape, was highly regarded by everyone who's side he's been a part of. But he just couldn't win a spot with Alaves (evidently b/c he didn't fit their defensive scheme).
5. He started out as an outside midfielder.

I haven't seen the guy play. But he's supposed to be very good technically, Stoichkov thinks highly of him. If he can play a holding mid role, I think he's a big plus. If he's an A-mid, then he's one more body in a very crowded situation.

 

Metro could have fit him under the cap by using the allocation money to cut into his wages. He would have cost the team roughly $75 k a year.

 

Simple, really, we have an allocation, no other team in the league does. We were going to use our allocation to sign him. You want him, fine: we'll trade the allocation to you for Stewart. Otherwise, see you later... Hudson talks a lot of garbage. And this article isn't written much better. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I don't know which team will eventually land Rosas. It is too bad the Burn are not making a play for him. ALthough the thought of having another team improve is somewhat discouraging, it is secondary to the improvement of overall league. These types of signings are so good for the league. Instead of having old broken down prima donnas, the league is getting young players who still have alot to offer. This is definitely the way to go. The league is doing the right thing.

 

Faulty, Rosas can be signed as a discovery, but I imagine that without an allocation to offset his signing, DC will need to cut a player or two. Alegria appears to be the choice on here, but I wonder if someone like a Brandon Prideuax might also get the axe.

 

Look, at some point, this allocation/discovery BS needs to stop. However, everyone is missing the point. Players sign contracts with MLS, not individual teams. Barcelona will give a waiver to MLS, not the Metros or DC (Stoitchkov notwithstanding). If anything, I could imagine that MLS itself asked Stoitchkov to intervene on the league's behalf to get the waiver.

If the Metros were to tell the league: we are using our allocation on Mario if MLS sign him -- full stop -- there is NOTHING DC could do to stop us. This is EXACTLY the same situation with Stewart, where your allocation and our allocation was in play, but your allocation took precedence. The fact that you have a "discovery" pick left is irrelevant, since an allocation is, for MLS purposes, a trump card.

On the other hand, maybe the Metros really don't think Rosas is the best thing since sliced bread. Nowak was a two-way player, and if Mario doesn't play defense, he's not gonna be our A-mid with Bob as coach. That leaves everyone else in the league to queue up and sign him... At this point, I doubt he'd be a discovery. He'd go in a weighted lottery with interested teams, same as DiGi will shortly.

Frankly, D.C. does NOT have the cap room left to fit a straight $150,000 salary -- which is what Rosas is rumored to have lined up. You think he'd take less to play for/with Stoitchkov? Hey, money talks and BS walks.

As I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Maverick, nobody is or was disputing that the Metros Allocation trumps a Discovery. We were simply saying that there does exist a mechanism--the Discovery Pick--that could allow DC United to add him if the opportunity presented itself. That opportunity would not present itself unless the Metros passed or had used their Allocation.

I'm guessing here, but it's possible that Bradley wants to add Garnero with an Allocation and was looking to add Mario via a Discovery Pick. If so, the DC United Discovery Pick would indeed take precedence over the Metros Discovery Pick based on order of finish. So, if Bradley wants them both he would probably use the Allocation on Mario and the Discovery on Garnero.

After all, Dallas is looking at using a Discovery on Tyson Nunez, who is arguably a bigger signing than either Mario or Garnero. Nunez is simply too expensive for anyone else in the league to touch him right now, so they may be able to do so.

Sweeper, I had already speculated that Brandon Prideaux would be the odd man out if Hudson goes after Mario (see page 1 of this thread), so I agree with you that he's a likely candidate salary-wise.

Still, it's a little wierd in the league this year. Some teams like DC, Dallas and Columbus are loaded with central attacking midfielders, while others like Chicago, New England and Metros seriously lack a central attacking midfielder. I'd rather see the teams more balenced.

-Tron

 

Interesting, because Metro needs a left back, and I cannot help but feel that Prideaux could be heading to Metro if he is cut from DC. Sheppard wide left and Prideaux as left back is an interesting mix to say the least.

 

I can understand some of the bitterness and anger from Metros fans b/c the clock is ticking and given the injuries and players leaving (Ganero, Rosas, Shephard), it seems like the team has gone backwards the past week and there are so many holes to fill.

And, I think Jacen makes a VERY good point about tampering. I suspect that nothing would stick--b/c Rosas was never signed by the league. But I bet Barcelona (who made the call) was probably influenced by Stoichkov. And that's only an assumption on my part.

As for the allocation arguments and which team "owns" Rosas, I'm not sure that having an allocation guarantees you get the player. First, Rosas has not signed with MLS and has not been assigned a team. Nor can he be--until Barcelona releases him. There is no indication that Barcelona wants any money, they've just been unwilling to release him just yet. So at this point, Rosas is not anyone's to trade (let alone use an allocation on).

Furthermore, MLS has taken the position that any US National team player (stewart, etc.) is "allocation-worthy". In otherwords, they get allocations used on them or they go through reverse order of selection (reverse of record). Otherwise, allocation does NOT mean that a team with an allocation gets first crack at all potential players. Otherwise, we could have used an allocation on Grimandi (or you could have). Or, your team could have claimed Hong (who went to LA). An allocation doesn't mean you get dibs on any talent coming into the league, only dibs on National teamers and help on the cap/transfer fees. Perhaps I'm guilty of misunderstanding how allocations work, but that is my take.

Allocations apply: (a) to US National team players; (b) players with hefty transfer fees; or (c) a player the league signs (before finding out which teams want them). For instance, Hwang (the ROK striker) nearly signed with the league--and the league started by querying the teams with allocations if they wanted him. Everyone passed so he wasn't signed. In this case, a team would be approaching the player and then he'd sign with the league. This is exactly how it worked with ZiZi Roberts (an allocation was used on him) and also with Galin Ivanov with DCU (your team didn't have to pass on him for DCU to sign him).

I don't honestly know what would happen if multiple teams wanted Rosas--the league could make a new policy I guess. I doubt it would be a lottery--those are typically used for domestic (ie: US players) who would have normally been draft eligible (Beckerman, Countess, Griffiths who was a TI). In most cases (such as when Andy Williams came into the league), it's been by order of record. In which case DCU would pick first.

As for finances, cap, etc.--we'll see. Frankly, he seems too expensive to me. But then, the person who I think is in danger from this is Quantanilla. And plenty of teams rework contracts in order to sign other players. So I doubt the money would be that big of an obstacle.

 

Mario's birthday is 5/22/1980. He would indeed qualify as a transitional international for the 2003 and 2004 seasons.

http://www.futvol.com/mediapark/pages/HOME_player/1,4167,92-1-15455,00.html

 

Honestly, this event could really spark the rivalry. I've never liked DC, but I've been passive about it. The fact that a player (even if he wasn't going to join the team) might be taken away from us in part due to back room shennanigans on the part of Stoich and Hudson has gotten me really pissed. Hopefully the duo of Mathis and Jaime are roaring to go at the start of the season.