I know I will catch tons of abuse for this but given that the DCSEC will be involved in any new stadium in Washington, things will be screwed up. We may get a new building but we will have the same idiots running the show.
Why do you think you would catch abuse for this notion? You are absolutely correct! Everyone knows it. However, the DCSEC is the only game in town if DC United is going to get a stadium. Unfortunately, a stadium will have to "go through" their hands unless it is moved outside of the District, to which I'm opposed!
I don't think Uncle Phil builds here unless he gets control of the revenue and operations. I wouldn't finance somebody else's house, would you?
Actually it is that last part of yours that I am afraid to get abused on. I would rather they look outside the city just so they could really have some control.
I agree but don't know if he has a choice. Does anyone know the details of the MCI Center?? Does Abe control that place completely?? Did he finance the whoe thing?? I really have no idea on that project.
The Old/Existing Convention Center Site: I agree that this would be an interesting location. However, I have concerns about the total size of this site. I ride by this on the bus to/from work. I too had thought about a stadium going in there, but then looked up the size on an atlas: it is just a shade over 10 acres. It's an odd shaped site with the H St side measuring about 250 m and the longest "numbered" street at about 220 m. Hence, I believe that any stadium proposed for this site would have to be an architectural masterpiece, with underground parking and a very unique look. That, in a way, would be truly fantastic: the unique look part. But the construction/demolition required would be prohibitively expensive and lengthy, in my opinion. Then there is the issue of the city likely not wishing for further traffic problems in that area. Top that off with the value of the land itself, and I think we can rule this site out for any future soccer stadia. In contrast, Lot 8 is well over 13 acres and would have ample existing parking plus Metro access. The construction job for a smallish, euro-style stadium here would be very reasonable compared to downtown. I looked at some of the stadia at the euro eb site, and one thing that all the newer ones with great designs and low price tags have in common is a sort of "uniform" design, with ample space surrounding the park. That could happen in Lot 8 a lot easier than at the cramped H St Convention Center site. Tim
Plus I think the RFK site has better road access capacity than a downtown stadium would. I suppose that MCI Center does OK though, so maybe it's not much of an issue. One issue with respect to the RFK site that no one seems to talk about is the environmental cleanup issues involved there. I seem to remember they did a study which indicated there are lots of toxic chemicals and stuff buried there. The cleanup will take time and money. On the money issue...I would imagine that Uncle Phil is pretty well diversified. In fact I think that's one of the potential problems he's got with the SEC since he sold lots of his QWEST stock over the last couple of years. I'm sure he's got lots and lots of money. The question is does he want to invest it in building stadia? He's already propping up the league. Hunt had to build Crew Stadium because the OSU stadium was going to be unusable and they needed a solution to that problem. We've still got RFK for the foreseeable future unless baseball comes around. But they've got so many problems now that I think we breath a bit of a sigh of relief. The DCSC is all about $$$$. Period. They would put anything they could in their venues if it was going to make them money. I wouldn't worry about them being baseball lovers especially.
Yankees-Mutiny? Back during the contraction time frame I had heard rumors about it but didn't really know what to think. Has anything been said in the NY media about that since then? I wouldn't be surprised if George used his influence to build a top notch training center down there that could also be the home of a Tampa/Orlando central Florida MLS side for which his son could be the Investor/Operator. If the Yankees were funding it I'm pretty sure the sunk costs would be 75% covered at least. With the size of the two cities and the growth rate, a well marketed side should be able to support a break-even operation. I'd be very happy to see MLS revive the Tampa Bay Mutiny. According to the latest Nielsen market analysis Tampa is the 13th largest TV houshold market in the US with 1.6M households. Orlando is 20th with 1.2M households. That area has the people, and is growing extremely fast. While there are large retirement communities, the vast majority of residents and by far the largest portion of the growth areas are young familes--ideal for MLS audiences. Tampa failed because of a bad stadium lease and poor marketing/management. I have a lot of faith that anything run by Stienbrenner will have no problem with marketing, and if he invests in MLS I'm sure the league will ensure that he has solid management. It may be a pipe dream, but I'd really like to see that scenario develop to fruition. -Tron
Not sure that a Tampa/Orlando (Central Florida) team would necessarily be successful if marketed that way. The two cities are about 90 minutes apart. It's not like they've got one big megalopolis there. If you stick their stadium in the middle between the cities no one would go. And putting the stadium in one or the other is not likely to draw too many people from the other city. The NASL Rowdies were moderately successful IIRC. And the area down there has certainly grown by leaps and bounds in the ensuing 20 years. A Tampa Bay franchise might be successful if they had an investor-operator. But ya know, sitting outside in an uncovered stadium in the middle of the day during the summer is no fun. I think that was part of their problem. Yes, there are a lot of poeple down there, but the weather for a large portion of the year can be pretty unbearable. People stay in air conditioned places and go to the beach for a reason. And I'm not sure how big the pro sports market really is in that area. Their baseball team barely draws anyone to their dome. The Lightning don't exactly lead the NHL in attendance or anything else now that the novelty has largely worn off. On the flip side there are lots of kids playing soccer in Florida and many large tournaments take place there every year. But I don't think you can say the Mutiny failed solely because of a lack of marketing and a bad stadium deal.
I say we just give up and relocate United to Florida...that way Ray has a decent shot at recreating that great team he keeps talking about.
Seriously. He needs to quit living in the past! The Fusion is gone. He's got to deal with the here and now, not yesterday.
Abe built the center out of pocket, and he controls it entirely, with the city kicking in for the improvements to the infrastructure. Same as the Skins deal with FedEx. Dave
i think aeg should just stick with using rfk IF: -baseball doesn't get in the way -concession/parking funds can be shared -a lease deal that is feasible can be reached between aeg and the stadium nazis. rfk is a great stadium, centrally located, metro-perfect, and full of memories from our dc utd dynasty (now long gone).
From the discussion prior to the "crash" a report completed during when the new skins stadium was being considered said there would be about $10m in environmental cleanup if a new stadium was to be constructed at the RFK site. The environmental issue was burried ash from the armory, IIRC. In my professional opinion (as an environmental consultant) I think the $10m figure is probably on the high side for a SSS. (Its possible the report was biased towards locating the new stadium away from RFK). Anyway, I don't think the environmental issue will prevent development in lot 8, as any potential site is likely to have issues to overcome. As far as time frame for a new stadium. I fully support the idea, but as others have said, it is sort of low on the list of priorities at this time, so I doubt AEG is in a hurry to go it alone on this type of project. However, if the stadium authority is presenting a offer they cannot refuse, I would venture to guess they would move forward.
DC Stadium Authority's lack of incentive Well that's the whole point, there will NOT be revenue sharing of any kind. That means no concessions. No parking funds. All that is available at RFK is a very expensive lease to pay and gate receipts. No business gives money away. Unless United has a viable alternative to RFK (i.e. cheap land and governmental tax assistance in VA/MD) there is no incentive for DC to do anything other than collect rents for an otherwise vacant facility. It's just being a prudent business. The negotiations will naturally drag on and become fruitless, because that is the proto-typical tactic to prevent someone from finding a viable alternative by giving them hope of a future compromise that never happens. It's shady and unethical, but it happens every day and I'm positive that MLS, AEG and the DCSA are both well aware that this is likely DCSA's tactic. For DC to have incentive to help AEG/MLS, there needs to be something EXTRA in it for DC. Perhaps AEG could divert a stream of it's concerts in VA/MD into DC to boost DCSA's revenues, but absent some extra incentive, nothing will be done. I've always been skeptical of building on the RFK site because of 3 issues: 1. Why would building a new stadium on an existing parking lot change any of the parking revenues? 2. Wouldn't the sunk costs of construction require many many years to recoup before ever becoming a real sorce of revenue? 3. By that time wouldn't it be rational to expect that either MLS has collapsed (thus potentially losing large amounts of capital for the investors) OR grown substantially (thus leaving us with missed opportunities for additional revenue from increased attendance, concessions and possibly parking fees)? I don't know all the details of the lease, nor where the negitiations have led, but these seem like tremendous roadblocks to building a stadium of any kind anywhere on the RFK premesis. -Tron