http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-timbers-1/2011/10/20/gIQAG3cIzL_blog.html Sorry, don't know how to imbed the video. 7:25 Ngwenya of DC is about to score a late goal by tapping in to an empty net off a cross, when he's tackled from behind from a Portland player. Instead of awarding the penalty, the ref seems to signal advantage as the ball rolls to a DC player, who gets a shot on goal, which is saved. Looks like the wrong call to me. I thought the penalty should have been called, and that what he saw as advantage wasn't enough to cancel out the penalty. Love to see the opinions here. It's possible that he's calling advantage for an earlier foul outside the box, but I really don't think that's the case.
First, the announcing team could not have been worse. Second, I remember reading somewhere about playing advantage in the area but at the same time not giving the advantage signal so when the shot is saved you can give the penalty. But, I might have dreamt it. That is a nightmare scenario for the CR. He sees the play develop right in front of him, assumes the tap in will be accomplished, and gives the advantage signal. The tap in is saved, and the advantage disappears. Without the signal, I think he could have still called the penalty. But once he signals and the advantage is realized and blown, he must give the corner.
I could be wrong about this but it looks to me like the Ref's arms are already fully extended by the time the contact on Ngwenya occurs -- or at least so soon after that he wouldn't have been able to make the decision and get the arms up to signal advantage on THAT foul. I'm guessing that he saw the foul outside the box and waited to see if DeRo actually got around the keeper before signaling advantage -- if the GK gets to the ball first or DeRo doesn't get clear, he'll bring it back for the FK. Given how quickly things happened after that, he easily would still just be getting his arms up (or not have brought them down) by the time the ball is onto and off Ngwenya's foot. If so, it's very good work in my book. if he was calling the advantage off a perceived foul by the Portland defender on Ngwenya, it's clearly not because one of the maxim's I've always been taught re: advantage is "don't call it in the PA unless the ball ends up in the net".
Proving once again that consensus is rare here, video doesn't necessarily solve everything, and refereeing when you only get one shot at it is hard, I see things completely differently... 1) I actually am pretty sure Marrufo is maintaining his advantage signal from the contact that occurred outside the area. We'd need someone who was inside the stadium to verify it, but I'm pretty sure that he has the prolonged signal as he catches up to play. As Marrufo enters the screenshot, which is about a millisecond after the contact in question, his arms are already fixed in the advantage position--I don't think he reacted to the contact that fast in order to get them up there. He probably had his arms up to show that everything was developing from his advantage call and to demonstrate he was on top of things despite the fact that he was catching up on a counter-attack. We can debate whether that's a good mechanic, whether or not there was even a foul and whether or not there was an offside violation (but with this video, we won't be able to solve any of those three debates). 2) I also don't think there was a foul on the incident you guys are talking about. We allow a certain latitude for defenders near the goal. The replay makes it appear that the Portland player actually touches the ball back into his own goalkeeper and then any contact with the DC player occurs. Notice that, in a situation where their season is on the line, there is no debate and no penalty appeal from the DC players; I think that's because they saw an excellent tackle and did not feel it was a foul EDIT: what gildarkevin said! I must have started typing right as he posted.
To be fair to the announcing team, look at 6:10. DC scored on a header and it's correctly called as offside because the keeper had come far out, and the DC player was only beyond the last defender. Most announcers would have been screaming that he was onside. They actually explained it quickly and correctly. Great call by the AR to stay with the right guy.
First of all, I agree with 2...I don't think it was a foul either. And I hope that 1 is correct...but if so, why does he keep the advantage signal up until the ball is completely out of play for a corner kick?
Then if what you are saying is true, the penalty should have been given. Also, in the sequence before on the video there was a clear handling in the area as the player slid down to block the ball heading for goal. I think if seen, I would have given that.
Any thoughts on the potential handball late in the game by Portland? I agree with the no call. His arm is by his body, not extended away from the body. The announcers were biased in favor of DC as usual.
I was there but at the other end of the field. I think MassRef is correct. The advantage signal was for the foul on DeRo. If that was outside the penalty area then it makes perfect sense since the advantage led to the easiest scoring chance Ngwenya has had all year. And he managed to still not score. No way that was deliberate handling on Bruenner. But as I have said on several other of these scenarios this year, my threshold for what should be considered deliberate handling is pretty high. His arm was in a natural position and the ball was played off of him from close range. One interesting thing I noted was that the JAR was engaging the crowd in a way I have never seen at this level. He was getting heckled quite a bit over a couple of plays. And kept giving a thumbs up sign to the crowd behind him. I found it very strange. I learned early on to never engage the spectators because it can never do you any good and usually leads to either more abuse headed your way or completely distracts you from your job.
I saw bits and pieces of the game on TV as I was drug out to Annapolis for this made-up thing she calls an anniversary. At any rate, there's no way that was handling toward the end, good no-call (and easy decision IMO) by Marrufo. I assume the JAR never faced the crowd but simply gave the signal behind his back. That action isn't limited to that particular JAR, it's something I've seen around as a way to deal with the stress. I don't have an issue with it.
now, in relation to the handball we had a long discussion last year when a KC attacker, I think it was Kamara, whiffed on a shot and as he was sliding intor the goal the ball bounced off his arm and in. Goal was disallowed and free kick awarded and I came on here because to me his arm was in a completely natural position and he did not attempt to play it with his arm - totally accidental. The consensus seemed to be that the intent was supposed to be balanced with the effect...no matter how accidental you can't allow a goal that an attacking player scores after directing the ball in with his arm. Well to me this seems a similar situation... Defender slid in front, arm in natural position (NOT however, totally against his body) and but the keeper was out, ball was goal bound, shot was certainly in a predictable direction...the ONLY thing that kept that ball out of the goal was its striking the defenders arm. So what say all to that?
Did you catch when he did the finger wave at the crowd in a sort of "bring it on" sort of way when we were in the middle of abusing him
In the stadium I couldn't see what happened and I wasn't focusing on Marrufo. The tackle looks fine to me but Marrufo's advantage call makes things confusing. If the advantage call is for a "foul" on Ngwenya, Marrufo blew it, but if it is for the foul outside the box several seconds beforehand, your explanation makes perfect sense. However, I would normally expect the ref to drop the advantage signal within a few steps after De Rosario got possession and took a few touches towards goal. Assuming your explanation is correct, it seems odd that Marrufo would continue to signal the advantage for as long as he did.