Damion Downs a Hamburger

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How does one go from a Championship bench warmer to Bundesliga starter overnight? Was he hurt his last couple months at Southampton?
     
  2. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #302 adam tash, Jan 10, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2026
    so many ways to respond to this:

    1. have you not followed how english clubs operate? not sure all the particulars but they love wasting players on their benches
    2. a player not playing at any given club is a SUBJECTIVE decision of the manager at that club
    3. downs did well last season in bundesliga 2 and was on the path to play in the bundesliga already if not for that ill advised move to southhampton
    4. he already has 2 goals in the bundesliga in roughly 250 minutes in his career before the move
    5.. hamburg bought him to play him - they have a need upfront
    6. downs wouldnt have done the move in the first place if it wasnt to play
    7. downs is german so he will get much more benefit of the doubt there than he would in england...and that obviously also played a role in getting him this opportunity
    8 this implication you make in your question "a championship bench warmer" and "bundesliga starter" implies something i disagree with - that a players current situation is what they "are"....just bc downs has been on the bench for his champ team - doesnt mean thats what he is. this idea that downs is "a champipnship bench player" is dense to me.
    9 - southhampton spent a lot of money on downs and then didnt play him - its odd. could be a bunch of reasons - but often a differeing of views between the gm and manager etc...sometimes players get caught in the crossfire there....or it could be downs just didnt play as well as the manager liked and didnt rate him, despite givng him chances.
    10 german teams are gonna give young players chances bc if they do well that means $$$$ for transfers...hence a guy like cole campbell had a bunch of interest as well

    overall, i mean I hear you, i think bundesliga teams would dominate championship teams but given the context here, it adds up even though i too was a bit surprised downs has this chance as well given i thought he just seems too young and green from watching him w usmnt and assumed thats why he wasnt playing

    but that said, something tells me this will work out and if so would be a great example showing that fit of situation is more important than absolute level of a player. so often i read on here - player x is not good enough for x league or team - or vice versa - when i see it more fluid....some teams and systems fit a player, some dont, regardless of level and thats why you see some players do really well for club but not for country and vice versa - the situation and fit is different - landon donovan to me was a perfect international player - but not quite as exceptional in the club game. james rodriguez is another example.

    theres plenty of players who could be good for a higher level club but not play so well for a lower level club, imo - but thats not how transfers usually work.

    i was shocked to hear of alexander isaks huge transfer fee after having watched him early in his career - and not following epl - and didnt expect him to do well for liverpool. to me hes nothing special.....

    harry kane is another guy who does great at megaclubs and can tap it in with the best of them but if you look at his record vs the very best national teams like spain, italy, france and belgium, for example, its not great. im not saying hes a bad player but i think hes got this great reputation even though he really cant get it done vs the very very best

    anyways, all this to say, i think the way players get their reps and valuations etc - that whole process is deeply flawed and subjective...and not to be taken as some kind of final referendum on a players intrinsic value....all of these things involve many factors - politics, ethnicity, economics, luck, system fit, etc etc...there isnt some perfect invisible hand that makes all soccer transfers prefctly logical
     
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  3. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of the time I give coaches the benefit of the doubt because they see their players every day but there are certainly exceptions where a coach doesn't rate a player who makes a move and is good to great for another team. Could be the system or a personality clash.
     
  4. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Could also be that the general manager brought him in even if coach wasn't thrilled
     
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  5. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah, known megaclub Tottenham Hotspur.

    I don't have any interest in defending Harry Kane, but this is an insane misread of his career and his abilities. He is just about as far from a tap-in merchant as a center forward can be. He led the Premier League in goals and assists in 2020-21.

    But to sum up the Downs question, he has gone from a team that, without him, is scoring about 1.5 goals per game, and the center forward has 11 goals, to a team barely scoring 1 per game, whose center forward has 2 goals. One of those teams needs a new striker more, regardless of the team's overall quality.
     
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  6. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #306 adam tash, Jan 11, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2026
    FYI kane has only 6 goals in 27 matches vs pot 1 teams FWIW - he was held scoreless vs usmnt in 2022 wc match FWIW

    Harry Kane's National Team Record vs. 2026 Pot 1 Teams

    Opponent Games Played Goals Scored
    Germany 5 3
    Spain 4 0
    France 3 1
    Brazil 3 1
    Netherlands 3 1
    Argentina 2 0
    Portugal 2 0
    Belgium 4 0
    United States 1 0
    Canada 0 0
    Mexico 0 0
    Total 27 6

    *stats from google gemini not sure if they are 100% accurate but they are close


    i just think theres a disconnect between "real" level of a player and how they are perceived. i dont rate kane that highly even though hes almost universally pereceived as a great player. i brought him up as an example of a player with a very high reputation but also someone who doesnt really get it done as a national teamer vs the very best i..e italy, spain, france belgium etc...hes been pedestrian vs those pot 1 teams

    i think in soccer more than many other sports or maybe even all sports.....there are so many factors beyond how good a player "truly" is and the success they have or dont have.

    its not tennis. or golf. or even basketball or baseball where inidividual skill is enough in and of itself.....you need so much to go right and align itself, generally. there are messi level talents but they are the .001% that will thrive no matter what - everyone else needs luck and other factors to align
     
  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    [​IMG]
     
  8. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Four possible explanations:
    1) it's hard to exaggerate how different the English game is: relentlessly physical and played at a frenetic pace, even BL1 veterans find it it very difficult to adjust and Downs is not a veteran
    2) the same reason Alonso has left Real: he doesn't fit the club
    3) Southampton are having a poor season and have sacked their coach already. That's a tough spot for a youngster in his first season abroad and his third senior season
    4) some combination of the above
    As for being hurt by the last 6 months, it depends on how he does at Hamburg and even a poor half-season there (this is HSV, so it's definitely possible:confused:) need not be fatal. With 10 BL2 goals and 5 assists in 29 games last season, he'll have options in the summer. Maybe not the ones he'd have wanted, but promotion challengers and BL1 bottom sides will still be interested
     
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  9. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #309 The Irish Rover, Jan 13, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2026
    Me neither - the bastard is Irish but chose England :p:p - but Kane's broken double figures for league assists 3 times (in 2 countries): 4 times you combine league and CL/EL assists.

    And that's just assists. It doesn't include hockey assists - to himself. Tottenham's default goal scoring move in his last 5 seasons read
    Step 1: ball to Kane on the edge of the centre circle
    Step 2: Kane feeds Son/Moura
    Step 3: cross to Kane from Son/Moura
    Step 4: shot or header from Kane, usually between the spot and the D
    He's acknowledged to be an excellent long-range passer, completing 11 out of 16 long passes in the CL this season as well as 11 in a single game (against BVB) in the BL. He's the ultimate False 9/No. 10 hybrid and at almost 6ft 3in, he wasn't half bad defensively, especially on set pieces. The video in this article sums up just how rounded his overall game is.
    https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...triker-erling-haaland-cristiano-ronaldo-34158

    Calling that take "an insane misread" of him is being extraordinarily charitable.
     
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  10. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Downs started today and went 80 as HSV hosted Scally, Reyna and BMG.

    Didn’t watch, so not sure how he played.
     
  11. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Played OK but couldn't finish - Hamburg outshot Gladbach 25-6 in a scoreless draw. Downs with three shots and a chance created.

    Gotta get a thread title change for a guy starting in the Bundesliga, feel free to improve on the title:

    @bungadiri
    @dark knight
    @TheFalseNine

    Burgertime: Damion Downs at HSV Hamburg
     
  12. Dervos

    Dervos Member+

    Mar 13, 2002
    Club:
    Austin Aztex

    Damion Downs a Hamburger
     
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  13. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice.

    and for additional consistency:

    Damion Downs a Hamburger at Hamburg (olf Southampton)
     
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  14. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Well done!
     
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  15. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Downs starts! Hamburger visiting St Pauli (Sands starting).
     
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  16. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    #316 TimB4Last, Jan 23, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2026
    [​IMG]

    Still 0-0 at 78' - Downs off at 68' - part of a triple substitution.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @dark knight

    Please add the (olf Southampton) to the thread title.

    We do have stringent guidelines around here, y’know!
     
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  18. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has been almost completely invisible in his first few games for HSV
     
  19. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He just doesn't seem physical enough to play the position.... and he doesn't have the elite speed and/or technique necessary to overlook the lack of strength.
     
  20. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is he hurt? Damion not even on the bench as Hamburg hosts Bayern.
     
  21. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Downs will remain invisible. He is not even on the bench today as HSV hosts Bayern. It’s been 3024 days since HSV last hosted Bayern.

    The announcer on ESPN only mentioned Downs is “unavailable”. HSV website mentions he wasn’t able to fully train this week.
     
  22. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    calf injury.

    HSV is sinking too.
     
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  23. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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