FFS mate, I shouldn't even have to reply to this. If you think Zagorakis is better than Pires I don't know what to say. In the past you said "PDG was always saying Pires was really good, and I guess seeing is believing" and showed a video. Sorry, but I don't put up a list, or invite others to do it, to be sniped at. It is just for interest. You didn't even watch at that time (but were seemingly impressed when you saw the video pleasantly surprised by his goals/assists stats which are just about on par with winger version CR7 if you remember). Sorry if I sound angry but don't now how else to respond. Don't want to fall out with you, but you could try and do this kind of thing with various players I picked Im sure, or various players others might pick (eg if someone would include Paul Scholes in a top 50 living players list - I'm not sure we could absolutely say that's incorrect even if me or you might not consider doing the same, but it's a valid enough choice and there's enough to believe it would be a real opinion). Only 5 players get voted into a Ballon d'Or vote. However maybe this helps suggest I'm not crazy completely with including him (I know it is a 'home' source though but it at least shows that he and not those other players you name ws put in the Onze top3 in 2001, while playing in a foreign league albeit a well covered one): http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/onze-awards.html Sorry, I realised I reacted a bit strongly (which I try not to do, I hope you can see, normally) but I'll leave it as it is to show my reaction when Is saw your post anyway. There has got to come a point where you have just got to let people have their own views, and not try to 'prove' they are wrong I think. If I was just randomly inserting favourite players or entertaining players to me it would be Robbie Dennison or someone not Robert Pires. Anyway, I'll leave it here now. I just think there was no need for that, and sometimes it's best to say it and stick up for myself maybe.
I'm not replying anymore now anyway. Just ignoring any more nonsense or CR7 propaganda that randomly pops up again.
Except to say I do realise Pele was sometimes questioned for his bizarre choices, so maybe me and him are just as crazy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_100
I seem to have ruined the thread now. You have the ability to make me like this Carlito to be fair. I'm posting in the manner I would always like to (politely, respectfully) elsewhere in the thread though I hope!
You have anger problems I don't like your views= I critic them You don't like my views = Throw toys out the pram Scream propaganda 'You make me like this" Sorry mate but "i dont make you like anything" I disagree with probably half your football views particularly those ones pertaining to modern era players Not Because I don't like or respect you but they just don't make sense to me How Robert pires >Neymar Gary lineker >Luis Suarez Van basten >Cristiano ronaldo How Where On what planet These aren't views within the spectrum of conventional football thought I mean you offer absolutely no reasons as to why you hold those views You Post them on a free forum anyways And then scream when i question them To be clear This is a thread youve started But it is not your thread you really can't claim ownership of it So if you can't claim ownership of it You can't shut me down for espousing views that are entirely accurate Nothing I said about pires and his complete lack of ballon dor recognition is incorrect Nothing I said regarding Messi or Ronaldo their stats,titles,domination is incorrect Just because you don't like it doesn't make it propaganda You like puck and others are masters at misrepresentation I mean is this all you're left with? Zagorakis made that 5th place BD ranking for his EURO performance Greece won that Euro in arguably the most boring fashion in the history of the competition Aesthetics aside zagorakis was a tireless hard-working player who has had tangible contributions in important matches of Euro 2004 Contributions that pires never had in WC 98 Euro 2000 WC 2002 Or Euro 2004 So even though he wasnt really amongst the best players in the world He was awarded a rare distinction for a Greek player. 11 different french players from 1998-2004 finished top 20 ballon for Not Robert pires Not even once I don't even think Brazilians were ever as represented as this over a 5-6 year period There is no conspiracy theory here At his best however good that best was there were always players in his position considered to be greater Always Robert Pires wasnt even as internationally renowned as sadio mane currently is And no I am not forcing you to accept my views lol This isn't force Its called objection Something you and your cronies are not accustomed to
I haven't even read that in full yet Carlito, but please point me to one example where I have posted in such an aggressive manner out of nowhere to you, like you did to me about Pires. Also please show me Francisco Gento's Ballon d'Or placings, and explain why he'd seemingly be a valid choice (that anyone is free to make without having to justify) as a top 100 player ever, and one of the best left wingers ever. I know I probably over-reacted, but it was a completely disrespectful post, deliberately trying to antagonise me and start an argument. I never once picked t your own choices - I just left them be. You just tried to annoy me (maybe CR7 related I don't know), and obviously it worked. Please just leave me alone now, seriously.
I've read it now and there is no apology, just more aggression. I am entitled to choose my own players. Everyone else is entitled to choose theirs. That's what this thread was here for, as an interesting exercise that would lead ton a concensus among us, which wouldn't really mean anything in terms of who the best players ever were because nobody can really say that, but it is just collection of people's ideas from their ow experiences and perceptions. I would request comme close the thread please because I don't want anymore of this to be honest. If Carlito tries to hound me randomly elsewhere I will completely lose any enthusiasm to post on the forum at all. Like I said anyone can randomly slate any selections, but that is basically attempting to bully people into not having their owjn views. There is no 'factual' way to argue Robert Pires definitely deserves a place, but I would point out others rather than me were naming him in the recent draft thread as someone who could have been picked so he's at least a reasonale option, and surely shouldn't be barred from being picked because Carlito said so - it's really ridiculous IMO to post what he did!
This is drama "Stop Hounding me" "Displaying Aggression" "Stop Bullying me" I probably quote you on average once every 3 months And not one thing I said regarding pires can be deemed as aggression towards you Not one thing I said was non factual It is only ridiculous because YOU don't like it But it is still true Like you thought it was ridiculous I said Cristiano scored more goals with his left foot and head than van basten scored in his entire career(non penalty) Its ridiculous only because you never liked it It was still true Stop playing victim Its not working at all Just put me ignore Because if I see more controversial opinions I will continue exercising my right to question them As I will do with anyone else Thanks I haven't sworn at you(like you have) Haven't called your inclusions ridiculous(like you have) So unfortunately you don't hold the high moral ground nor are you views aligned with the collective consensus of authoritative sources
Gento? He finished 12th in the 1957 ballon dor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Ballon_d'Or 12th in the 1958 ballon dor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Ballon_d'Or 11th in the 1960 ballon dor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Ballon_d'Or 9th in the 1961 ballon dor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Ballon_d'Or He was considered for 4 seasons to be roughly a top 10 player in the world (similar to hazard and bale from this era) Maybe he gets a unjustified historical bonus (that all players who star for era defining teams benefit from) But as an individual player he was clearly world class And considered as such during his playing career That is the important part Gento and Pires? Its like comparing the earth with the moon One was widely considered during his playing career to amongst the top 10 or so players in the world The other was Never considered a top 20 player in the world at any point I could call this comparison outright ridiculous but i won't
This thread was never meant to be a place to write dissertations (or even a paragraph) explaining choices. I didn't ask that of anyone (all I do ask is that people post respectfully, not trying to ridicule others - I apologise if I turned a blind eye to it happening to anyone else though as sometimes I like to take a back seat, but it probably does seem hypocritical that I suddenly make a big deal of someone doing it to myself). To be fair lol, I think Gento's placings are a little better than I thought off the top of my head (the top 10 ones - I just knew that for example Kopa as a Real Madrid player in the supporting case had placings right near the top, and Blokhin who could be considered a left winger won it - sometimes Gento is considered the equal or superior to those kind of players). I'm just worried if I start to try to justify Pires 'logically' that Carlito will want the same for various other players, in an attempt to humiliate me or something but maybe I am wrong and it is just his posting style (to be controversial and start arguments and have very strong views, even if they change later). He did get injured in 2002 though, so he was not going to really be considered (rightfully so) for the 2002 Ballon d'Or. If there was a vote for the 2001/02 season maybe he would/should get a high placing, after all in a team including Bergkamp, Henry and Vieira that won the double he was FWA Player of the Year. He was a class player I think it's fair to say, and that is my objection - if people are just going to start slating selections of players like that and then where would it stop? Maybe I should have said Czibor rather than Gento, although it might be argued that he would have good placings if the Ballon d'Or started a bit earlier (hard to know for sure - I could see it'd be quite likely he would get a few votes). I still wasn't factoring longevity hugely of course, although Pires was not completely a one season wonder. I just think his selection is legitimate enough not to be trashed like that, but I apologise for my reaction. I don't wish you any ill Carlito, and I hope you feel the same, but it just seemed like a calculated attack on me I suppose for no apparent reason. If you'd said "to be honest with respect to him, I'd not include Robert Pires in my ranking In don't think, because...." I guess I'd have just left things as they were without reacting (although I'd know you were referring to my post still). I just feel it was like a random attack designed to make me react to it (that's how it felt anyway). I know you show the same amount of respect to various other posters though, and maybe you don't mean any harm but it is just your style. I am tired of this now though, and am maybe stressed enough without it! I am annoyed at myself for reacting though 100%.
League Lionel Messi 444 league goals in 39120 minutes 1.02 goals per 90 minutes played Cristiano Ronaldo 450 league goals in 46330 minutes 0.88 league goals per 90 Marco Van basten 219 league goals in 23236 minutes 0.85 goals per 90 Ronaldo nazario 235 league goals in 26206 minutes 0.80 goals per 90 Robert lewandowski 268 league goals in 30621 minutes 0.78 goals per 90 minutes played Luis Suarez 307 league goals in 37093 minutes 0.74 goals per 90 minutes played @Dearman Marco Van basten You know the one with a higher league scoring ratio than R9(0.85 vs 0.80) 5 league titles (vs 1) 6 league top scorer titles (vs 3) 3 domestic league cups(vs 2) Is it not enough that you think R9 was better league performer But 25 places better!!!! How on earth is R9 SW for half of 1995/96 He scored 12 goals+3 assists in 13 eredivise matches Is that really unprecedented In matches he played in the 95/96 Eredivise PSV scored 36 goals 33% direct involvement https://www.transfermarkt.com/ronal...95&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= Ok But why is van basten 86/87 only OW in Eredivise? He scored 31 goals+9 assists in the league(27 matches) out of 92 team goals 43% direct involvement https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mar...6&verein=&liga=1&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
I somehow hadn't realised I had Rensenbrink in the wrong list (at the time Paolo Rossi was in the right one, but moved to the other one after my post of course, as was well known at the time). I noticed a really good new video for him on Youtube (and read a comment that said rest in peace): Rob Rensenbrink, Het Slangenmens [Goals & Skills] - YouTube @PuckVanHeel maybe something you'd like to see....(maybe you even spotted some tributes or something that you might like to post too - not a request by me but just more like an invitation if you want). One list I think he could merit a place somewhere relatively near the top would be a best dribblers all-time list. I recently got as far as number 27 with my attempt, without him included, but although there might be a few others like Raymond Kopa, Eden Hazard, perhaps Jairzinho, that might go above him, quite possibly he'd be next in any extension of my attempt, above a Rui Costa (who had been in mind after thinking about dribbling+passing in combination and I'd had him in a first draft of a dribblers list too at one point) and maybe anyone else (ok, it'd be arguable and hard to call but I mean I think he's somewhere in contention for let's say a top 40 place at least, when considering his combination of snake-like movements, balance and ability to deceive the defender and his skillful/clever manipulation of the ball). RIP Rob Rensenbrink, legendary player of the Total Football generation