At the very least meazza was comparable if not most likely better than cruyff in dribbling His trademark was dribbling entire defences,dummying a keeper and scoring I even read a report of him controlling a ball mid air with a bicycle kick(not kidding)and proceeding to dribble an entire defence and scoring This is a guy who smoked,drank and slept with prostitutes the night before a game. Believe me if eye witness accounts are to be believed meazza was certainly at that level(definitely in dribbling and scoring) From the source you refer to(pest stats) “...It's been said that Baggio revived him for his touch, his genius, his artistry and dribbling; and that on the other hand he was a sort of Platini, scoring like a striker but natural playmaker. Surely he played most of his career as CF, switching to playmaker in the national team, but even as a CF he was maybe the first example of the modern Trequartista or No.10. “
Gazzetta dello Sport placed both in their all-time team of January 1981: Gilmar; Djalma Santos, Beckenbauer, Rosato, Nilton Santos; Neeskens; Schiaffino, Cruijff; Meazza, Pelé, Riva. Also: on March 17 in 2016, Gazzetta dello Sport released a list of the 12 greatest players in their 120 year history: Meazza, Di Stéfano, Pelé, Rivera, Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Van Basten, Maradona, Luís Ronaldo, Messi & Buffon. (I haven't seen Vegan10 posting one made by Gazzetta themselves but correct me if I'm wrong) I'd like to mention to carlito that Cruijff at the age of 36 dribbled the entire Liverpool defense, back then perhaps the best on-field organized club team of Europe (when they played AS Roma, themselves one of the most organized and compact Italian teams, it was short-handedly said Roma had the stars but Liverpool the teamwork). It's an example that doesn't stand alone (also a nice dribble goal against later UEFA Cup winner Tottenham). Meazza might have been a true great (together with Sindelar the best of his time?) but it is not so easily said he was a better intrinsic dribbler.
Yeah, those are the kinds of things I have read too. I guess it is a little bit like the Duncan Edwards situation in terms of not knowing to what extent the available footage under-emphasises the talent/effectiveness (in the context of comparing to more modern players too which the old journalists couldn't do in real-time obviously), and to what extent the hyperbole goes beyond reality. One comment I read did suggest that a young Baggio was very much like Meazza, more so than Rivera (that particular person who IIRC had seen Meazza, did seem to rate him above Rivera and imply he felt Baggio could be worth that notable recognition too I think - obviously no two people see everything the same though, and Rivera below Meazza isn't definitely reflected in the IFFHS Poll at the end of the Century for example - Rivera wouldn't be seen so much as a combination of great goalscorer and playmaker but could be regarded as better based on the playmaking I suppose by some who did see both potentially; of course we have to remember the claims within Argentina that Moreno was equal to or better than Maradona which exist too for example, without really being able to evaluate them in our own view for certain).
Yeah, what we don't know is if the Meazza solo dribbles were like some Baggio goals (Fiorentina vs Napoli or whatever, or the Juventus one from early 1994 maybe although I guess that one would be less players taken on but potentially more varied technique compared to what seems to be suggested for Meazza) or something more impressive - again when 'whole team' kind of claims are made they are usually exaggerated a bit but no doubt that his goals would have been celebrated as great I think anyway, and we can see his deceptive ability to 'fake' moves and fool players in some footage for example (a little bit Baggio-esque indeed), like when setting Piola up vs Hungary in 1938 or some goal against Austria IIRC. He was said to be quite quick I think too wasn't he, so it's easily imagined that he goes on runs and takes on numerous players I think. Thanks for posting that XI. I had a feeling maybe one Brazilian journalist put Meazza in and not Cruyff (although can't quite remember) but it wouldn't be widespread anyway, and Cruyff did get a lot of votes and Meazza comparably only a few inclusions wasn't it....
@PuckVanHeel I would appreciate it if you could post that Liverpool comp. Anyways I don’t doubt cruyff could dribble from the half way line beating 3-4 players(I’ve seen enough examples)point being here meazza has an added edge Being arguably the best scorer,dribbler and creative player in the world Cruyff I think was only all of the above in his country and for only a season (1971/72) I think with meazza probably being the best player of his era should guarantee him a top 10 spot I don’t see players like Cristiano Ronaldo,Eusebio,platini,Puskás(even Napoli maradona if we’re being honest) having the same all round game as meazza is reported to have(and Beckenbauer is a defensive player so a comparison is difficult) I remember you saying cruyff was effective as a sweeper but meazza was also adept at playing cb (don’t know if he excelled in this position but it’s worth noting nonetheless)
Here: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23ze7c This is an imbalanced comparison in my view. Meazza never scored over 1 goal per game while that was commonplace in his time, with guys having 50+ or more goals in a season. Serie A goals per match in Meazza his most prolific seasons was over 3.1 and he also took a few penalties of course (not as many as Baggio, Maradona for sure as a proportion of total). Meazza might have been quite efficient for his position but that is not the point nor your claim. Cruijff was also topscorer of the European Cup in 1971-72 (until UEFA retracted this goal decades later, the shot was on target but it became an own goal), and had six non-penalty goals in five national team games. Besides, he was already very creative and a great dribbler since 1966 but predictably he didn't get the plaudits yet by the mainstream cartel. Compare Pele and Best against England in 1969-70 with Cruijff against England - all of them played two times against England in that period. So it is contentious to call Meazza the best scorer in the world (in an absolute sense) and it is imbalanced to take only one season of Cruijff (ignore what came before) and then tick off multiple by Meazza. That Cruijff played in a mickey mouse league - if you want - does not matter; his production against the top teams in friendlies and competitive matches was as good as anyone. Now, you can cite eye-witness accounts for Meazza but this is what Gunter Netzer said in the mid 1970s: I think the point of that is clear. Most importantly both helped their team as much by not scoring, in particular when playing for weaker teams. Then they had to provide the platform by themselves, to make their team competitive (winning or 2nd place, consistent semi finals etc.). That's at least a very strong argument to make. Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler “I thought my job was to organize the team when I came here,” he told The Post. “Sure, I could score goals. I’m not worried about that in the slightest. In fact, that’s what I’m going to do now. Forget about organization, I’m going to play spectacularly now. I’m going to play football for the spectator.” “We’ll start winning games,” Cruyff prophesized. “But no championships. If you want to win trophies, you have to play organized.” In their next game, against the San Jose Earthquakes, the injured Cruyff converted a penalty, gave an assist and helped set up two more goals, in just 35 minutes on the field. He earned and converted another penalty in his next game. And in the one after, he scored twice and gave three assists. Cruyff walked off to a standing ovation. He would end the season with 10 goals and 20 assists. But the Dips were knocked out in the first round of the playoffs. By Michels’ much-better organized Aztecs. ---- Cruyff was still bothered by the bruised left thigh that kept him out of the last two games of Washington's 0-4 road trip. Yet he was nothing short of sensational in the first half when the Dips built a 2-0 lead against a team that had won 21 of 23 games, best record in the league. Then, when Washington blew its lead early in the second half, it was Cruyff, shouting and cajoling all at once, who held the team together until Green could come up with the game-winner. "It's a good win certainly," said Coach Gordon Bradley. "But look around the room. We're not surprised. We know what we can do when Johan is fit." ---- With Cruyff fit enough, the Dips lifted their record to 9-13, good for 90 points for the season and second place in the NASL's National Conference East. The Sounders, losing for the first time since June 11, are now 21-3 for 171 points. "When we have Johan in the lineup we're a very good team," said Coach Gordon Bradley, referring to the return of midfielder Johan Cruyff. "I think it's easy to see the difference he makes out there." It is so easy to see that even as crude a measure as statistics tell the story well. In the Diplomats' last 10 games, they have won six. Cryuff did not play in two of the four losses and left a third at halftime with the score tied 1-1. With Cruyff in the line up, the Dips have outscored opponents, 21-10. With cruyff out of the lineup -- for two full games and two half-games -- they have been outscored, 8-1.
Moving the discussion about time changing the ranking of players over to here from the Dutch footballers thread. First the latest update (October 2018) of PDG's BigSoccer Top 100 Poll, which combined the input of many posters with various other sources. In the next post this will be compared with FourFourTwo's Top 100 from last year, which as previously mentioned was very similar to Voetbal International's list around the same time. Twenty players who appear in either the BigSoccer or FourFourTwo list have entered one of the Top 100s during the twenty-first century. They will be shown in a further post. So will the twenty players they have replaced, who have been identified after combining the various lists from two decades ago. Here is PDG's BigSoccer ranked Top 100, sorted by country. Brazil (22) Pele 1 Garrincha 9 Ronaldo 11 Zico 14 Romario 23 Didi 28 Ronaldinho 29 Rivelino 31 Zizinho 36 Leonidas 39 Rivaldo 45 Falcao 53 Roberto Carlos 56 Socrates 58 Carlos Alberto 62 Nilton Santos 65 Cafu 71 Jairzinho 82 Djalma Santos 90 Kaka 91 Tostao 99 Friedenreich 100 Italy (13) Maldini 20 Baresi 24 R Baggio 26 Meazza 30 Rivera 35 Zoff 36 Rossi 42 Buffon 52 Facchetti 61 S Mazzola 72 V Mazzola 92 Cannavaro 93 Totti 96 Argentina (10) Maradona 2 Messi 4 Di Stefano 5 Moreno 34 Passarella 41 Kempes 47 Batistuta 63 Sivori 70 Pedernera 75 Ohaco 98 Germany (8) Beckenbauer 6 G Muller 16 Matthaus 19 Rummenigge 33 F Walter 44 Klinsmann 83 Seeler 89 Sammer 94 England (6) Charlton 17 Moore 27 Matthews 32 Banks 59 Keegan 79 Edwards 86 France (6) Platini 8 Zidane 12 Kopa 37 Henry 38 Fontaine 73 Thuram 97 Netherlands (6) Cruyff 3 van Basten 18 Gullit 25 Bergkamp 51 Neeskens 57 Rijkaard 64 Hungary (5) Puskas 7 Kocsis 46 Kubala 49 Sarosi 68 Bozsic 77 Spain (3) Suarez 55 Xavi 67 Iniesta 80 Portugal (3) C Ronaldo 10 Eusebio 13 Figo 54 Austria (2) Sindelar 40 Bican 60 Denmark (2) M Laudrup 43 Schmeichel 66 Sweden (1) Nordahl 74 Former USSR (1) Yashin 22 Former Yugoslavia (1) Savicevic 95 Scotland (1) Dalglish 76 Wales (1) Charles 88 Northern Ireland (1) Best 15 Bulgaria (1) Stoichkov 78 Romania (1) Hagi 89 Uruguay (1) Schiaffino 48 Chile (1) Figueroa 85 Peru (1) Cubillas 69 Mexico (1) Hugo Sanchez 81 Cameroon (1) Eto'o 87 Liberia (1) Weah 50
Next the 23 players included in FourFourTwo's Top 100 (2017) but not in BigSoccer's. FourFourTwo ranking shown. Germany (4): Netzer 33, Breitner 70, Maier 91, Lahm 93 Italy (2): Scirea 53, Riva 79 Brazil: Neymar 97 Argentina: Zanetti 87 Uruguay (2): JL Andrade 72, Varela 96 Spain: Gento 36 Hungary (2): Hidegkuti 39, Albert 67 England: Dean 62 Scotland (2): Johnstone 65, Law 76 Wales: Giggs 83 Portugal: Coluna 99 Denmark: Simonsen 88 Sweden: Ibrahimovic 94 Former USSR: Blokhin 45 Former Czechoslovakia: Masopust 74 Former Yugoslavia: Djajic 81 Now the 23 included in the BigSoccer Top 100 but not in FourFourTwo's. Brazil (7): Zizinho, Leonidas, Rivaldo, Falcao, Kaka, Tostao, Friedenreich Germany (2): Klinsmann, Sammer Italy (2): Cannavaro, Totti Hungary (3): Kubala, Sarosi, Bozsic Argentina: Ohaco France: Thuram England: Edwards Portugal: Figo Austria: Bican Former Yugoslavia: Savicevic Chile: Figueroa Cameroon: Eto'o Liberia: Weah
As mentioned, 20 players who appear in either the BigSoccer or FourFourTwo list have entered the Top 100 during the twenty-first century. They are shown below in blue type. In red type are the twenty previously most popular players they have replaced, who have been identified after combining the various lists from two decades ago. Brazil: In: Cafu, Neymar, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldinho. Out: Ademir de Menezes, Gerson Argentina: In: Messi, Zanetti. Out: Labruna, Monti, Orsi Italy: In: Buffon, Cannavaro, Totti. Out: Piola Germany: In: Lahm. Out: Overath, Vogts France: In: Henry, Thuram, Zidane. Out: Giresse Spain: In: Iniesta, Xavi. Out: Zamora Portugal: In: C Ronaldo Sweden: In: Ibrahimovic. Out: Liedholm Wales: In: Giggs Cameroon: In: Eto'o. Out: Milla Uruguay: Out: Francescoli, Nasazzi, Scarone England: Out: Finney Hungary: Out: Czibor Austria: Out: Ocwirk Poland: Out: Boniek Paraguay: Out: Erico
Nice work mate. If I understand correctly, you located my latest points summary and then added on the more recent votes, so kudos for that as it is not so straightforward now probably! Rivaldo and Zidane did make both the World Soccer readers poll, and then in 2002 the top 100 of the author of 'The All-Time World Cup' which I know you are familiar with. Giggs was in the former too, but it's true that in most lists compiled before or in the late 90s those players were not considered established enough I think isn't it. It might be argued (though in Zidane's case it's questionable) they all peaked in the 90s, interestingly, but their careers can be more fully dissected and appreciated now I suppose.
Comparison with IFFHS Top 50 compiled in 1999. Old IFFHS positions in brackets. Blue text shows rise of 10 or more places, or promotion into Top 50. Red text shows fall of 10 or more places. Green text indicates new player. Brazil (22) Pele 1 (1) Garrincha 9 (8) Ronaldo 11 (Mid-Career) Zico 14 (14) Romario 23 Didi 28 (20) Ronaldinho 29 (New) Rivelino 31 Zizinho 36 (47) Leonidas 39 Rivaldo 45 (New) Falcao 53 Roberto Carlos 56 (New) Socrates 58 Carlos Alberto 62 Nilton Santos 65 Cafu 71 (New) Jairzinho 82 Djalma Santos 90 Kaka 91 (New) Tostao 99 Friedenreich 100 Italy (13) Maldini 20 Baresi 24 (33) R Baggio 26 Meazza 30 (21) Rivera 35 (19) Zoff 36 (Goalkeeper 3) Rossi 42 Buffon 52 (New) Facchetti 61 (42) S Mazzola 72 (44) V Mazzola 92 Cannavaro 93 (New) Totti 96 (New) Argentina (10) Maradona 2 (5) Messi 4 (New) Di Stefano 5 (4) Moreno 34 (25) Passarella 41 Kempes 47 Batistuta 63 Sivori 70 (36) Pedernera 75 Ohaco 98 Germany (8) Beckenbauer 6 (3) G Muller 16 (13) Matthaus 19 (15) Rummenigge 33 (35) F Walter 44 (23) Klinsmann 83 Seeler 89 (45) Sammer 94 England (6) Charlton 17 (10) Moore 27 (24) Matthews 32 (11) Banks 59 (Goalkeeper 2) Keegan 79 (38) Edwards 86 France (6) Platini 8 (7) Zidane 12 (New) Kopa 37 (43) Henry 38 (New) Fontaine 73 (31) Thuram 97 (New) Netherlands (6) Cruyff 3 (2) van Basten 18 (12) Gullit 25 (18) Bergkamp 51 Neeskens 57 Rijkaard 64 Hungary (5) Puskas 7 (6) Kocsis 46 (39) Kubala 49 (32) Sarosi 68 Bozsic 77 Spain (3) Suarez 55 Xavi 67 (New) Iniesta 80 (New) Portugal (3) C Ronaldo 10 (New) Eusebio 13 (9) Figo 54 (New) Austria (2) Sindelar 40 (22) Bican 60 (34) Denmark (2) M Laudrup 43 Schmeichel 66 (Goalkeeper 7) Sweden (1) Nordahl 74 (46) Former USSR (1) Yashin 22 (Goalkeeper 1) Former Yugoslavia (1) Savicevic 95 Scotland (1) Dalglish 76 Wales (1) Charles 88 Northern Ireland (1) Best 15 (14) Bulgaria (1) Stoichkov 78 Romania (1) Hagi 89 Uruguay (1) Schiaffino 48 (17) Chile (1) Figueroa 85 (37) Peru (1) Cubillas 69 (48) Mexico (1) Hugo Sanchez 81 (26) Cameroon (1) Eto'o 87 (New) Liberia (1) Weah 50 (27)
One factor with that IFFHS vote for the century elections was that there was a difference between how players fared in the continental elections, and the final world elections. For example Michael Laudrup being joint 24th in the Europe-only vote (among Europeans) but not in the top 50 worldwide when 34 Europeans were (I think I saw an extended list somewhere and he was just outside the top 50 but not IIRC the very next player in the voting outside it). In the list you made above Peterhrt, for modern day voting, I counted 27 Europeans being above I think but 4 of those are Henry, C.Ronaldo, Zoff and Yashin (goalkeepers were dealt with in a separate vote in the IFFHS elections, and I think they were carried out in about 1997 or at least a while before the end of 1999 weren't they, meaning Zidane wasn't so much a factor as he might have been?). But it would take a while to check if on this thread he would be significantly higher up among Europeans when only votes by European members were considered. Jose Manuel Moreno was 5th in the South America regional vote, but 8th South American finally in the worldwide vote (I'm not quite sure, and maybe Gregoriak had some info IIRC to an extent, whether European voters automatically picked a quota of non-Europeans to vote for, or even only added votes for non-Europeans, in the second phase of voting). In Peterhrt's new summary for 2018 he is 11th South American but players he is below include Ronaldinho and Messi, as well as Ronaldo. So, Michael Laudrup seems about where European IFFHS voters had him relatively, and Moreno seems about where the final worldwide vote placed him, among South Americans, when factoring in new additions.
Yes there was the occasional discrepancy between the IFFHS worldwide and continental votes. One advantage of comparing their worldwide vote with your compilation is that they both have large sample sizes.
Combining various sources, old and new, here are some draft Top 5s by country. Players are listed in chronological order. Starting with Latin America. Brazil: Pele, Garrincha, Zico, Ronaldo. Plus 1 from Zizinho, Didi, Rivelino, Romario, Ronaldinho. Argentina: Moreno, Di Stefano, Maradona, Messi. Plus 1 from Sastre, Pedernera, Sivori. Uruguay: Scarone, JL Andrade, Schiaffino. Plus 2 from Piendibene, Obdulio Varela, Walter Gomez, Francescoli, Suarez. Chile: Leonel Sanchez, Figueroa. Plus 3 from Arellano, Raul Toro Julio, Hormazabal, Eyzaguirre, Ruben Marcos, Salas, Vidal, Alexis Sanchez. Paraguay: Aurelio Gonzalez, Erico, Chilavert, Romerito. Plus Solich or Gamarra. Peru: Joya, Chumpitaz, Cubillas, Cueto. Plus 1 of Teodoro Fernandez, Valeriano Lopez, Sotil. Mexico: Hugo Sanchez. Plus 4 from Luis de la Fuente, Horacio Casarin, Jared Borgetti, Cuauhtemoc Blanco, Rafael Marquez. Colombia: Valderrama. Plus 4 from Ortiz, Iguaran, Leonel Alvarez, Rincon, Radamel Falcao, James Rodriguez. Other Latin America: Spencer (Ecuador). Plus 4 from Alvaro Murillo (Costa Rica), Jose Rafael Fello Meza (Costa Rica), Ugarte (Bolivia), Magico Gonzalez (El Salvador), Etcheverry (Bolivia), Keylor Navas (Costa Rica).
Some quick observations: -Sanchez is chosen above Hormazabal, despite Sanchez claiming that the latter was better. -Nasazzi, the most awarded defender of all eternity, is ommited. -Carbajal, Central America's most awarded GK is omitted.
Leonel Sanchez has appeared in more lists than Hormazabal, due partly to his performances in the 1962 World Cup. There may not have been much to choose between them. Nasazzi can be added to the short list. Carbajal's reputation seems to have fallen in recent times. It is doubtful whether he is any longer regarded as Mexico's best goalkeeper. Jorge Campos and Ochoa, at least, appear to be ahead of him. Mexican BigSoccer poster @tLB Odiseo had Carbajal keeping goal for his third team. Jorge Campos was his first-choice keeper and Oswaldo Sanchez his second.
From my point of view, José Nasazzi seems an even superior candidate to the first great Uruguayan star, José Piendibene, or Walter Gómez (actually, I think he could have been the most prominent figure of that relief group). Another very feasible candidate for me is Pedro Rocha (one of the best players in the world in the 1960's) and a little less likely Ladislao Mazurkiewicz and Diego Forlán (the latter I think will be better estimated in a while forward). I'd say Elías Figueroa would be the only sure candidate. I think Leonel Sánchez could enter to the group of possible candidates, but not with such a notoriously stellar position considering Enrique Hormazábal, Iván Zamorano (unmentioned), Marcelo Salas, Arturo Vidal (to this day I think the first escort) and Alexis Sánchez. I don't think David Arellano is such a good candidate. He's a kind of legendary figure, but part of that is based on his early and sudden death at the age of 24. Ahead of him I'd mention to Sergio Livingstone, Carlos Reinoso and Carlos Caszely to add them in a similar level of possible candidates. Solid first 4. I think that as posible candidates to the fifth place could be Delfín Benítez Cáceres (a South American star in 1930's) and Eulogio Martínez. Although I think Juan Joya could claim the fifth position, I think the strongest option in a top 4 is Teodoro "Lolo" Fernández (a figure that even tends to be more legendary than Héctor Chumpitaz for Universitario and is the only one who could argue with Teófilo Cubillas to be the maximum international influence from Peru). In the group of feasible candidates could be Alberto Terry, Juan Seminario and perhaps Julio César Uribe (all with solid arguments). I think Mexico could include some of its most famous goalkeepers (Antonio Carbajal, Jorge Campos, Oswaldo Sánchez or Guillermo Ochoa). I also think that Alberto García-Aspe could have a certain opportunity (perhaps also Pável Pardo, Javier Hernández and Carlos Vela). I tend to think that the 4 for sure are Willington Ortiz (the greatest player before the Colombian awakening), Carlos Valderrama (the cult figure), Radamel Falcao (who had the highest peak of performance) and James Rodríguez (the standard-bearer of their most recent generation with European influence). Ahead of Leonel Álvarez and perhaps Arnoldo Iguarán I'd mention to Delio Gamboa, Faustino Asprilla, Iván Córdoba or Óscar Córdoba. I could add as possibilities to: Alejandro Morera Soto (Costa Rica), Álex Aguinaga and Luis Antonio Valencia (Ecuador), and Juan Arango (Venezuela).
A few more draft Top 5s. Players again in chronological order. Hungary: Puskas. Plus 4 from Schlosser, Orth, Sarosi, Boszic, Hidegkuti, Kubala, Kocsis, Albert Austria: Sindelar, Bican, Ocwirk. Plus 2 from Smistik, Binder, Hanappi, Hasil, Krankl, Prohaska Sweden: Gren, Nordahl, Liedholm, Hamrin, Ibrahimovic. Denmark: M Laudrup, P Schmeichel. Plus 3 from Sophus Nielsen, Tarp, K-A Hansen, Praest, Simonsen Belgium: Braine, Van Himst. Plus 3 from Coppens, Van Moer, Gerets, Ceulemans, Preud'Homme, Hazard, De Bruyne Poland: 5 from Willimowski, Cieslik, Pohl, Kasperczak, Lubanski, Deyna, Lato, Boniek, Lewandowski Former Czechoslovakia: Masopust, Nedved. Plus 3 from Pilat, Pesek, Planicka, Nejedly, Viktor, Panenka, Cech Former USSR: Yashin, Blokhin, Shevchenko. Plus 2 from G Fedotov, Netto, Streltsov, Voronin, Dasaev Former Yugoslavia: Djajic, Modric. Plus 3 from Bobek, Vukas, Milutinovic, Zebec, Susic, Stojkovic, Savicevic, Suker, Vidic
Is there an opportunity for József Takács and Gyula Zsengellér? Is there an opportunity for Toni Schall and Karl Decker? I've never seen Franz Hasil ranked so high. I'd add to Morten Olsen, Preben Elkjaer Larsen, Soren Lerby and John Hansen. Perhaps also Brian Laudrup. I'd add to Jean-Marie Pfaff and Jef Mermans. I guess Kazimierz Deyna and Zbigniew Boniek are for sure. Is there an opportunity for Robert Gadocha? Perhaps not. I'd add to Antonín Puc and perhaps Frantisek Svoboda, although Karel Pesek, Frantisek Plánicka and Oldrich Nejedly seem the strongest candidates. Igor Netto and Rinat Dasayev seem safe for me. I'd add to Albert Shesternyov and perhaps Valentin Ivanov, David Kipiani, Yuriy Voynov, Fyodor Cherenkov and Igor Belanov. Could Dragoslav Sekularac be at this level?
Great lists mate, My comments: - I'll give Sarosi a sure spot for Hungary. - I didn't considered Hasil for Austria - For Denmark J.Hansen & M.Olsen instead of K.A.Hansen - For Poland, I give Boniek and Deyna a sure spot. I didn't include Cieslik and Kasperczak. - I agree, "Kada" Pesek and Planicka deserved a sure spot. - Shesternyov must be included for USSR - Sekularac must be included for Yugoslavia. I guess the first one, is Dragan Dzajic, not Predrag Djajic
Thank you for the comments. A few observations. Hungary: Zsengeller was ranked tenth by the Hungarian FourFourTwo magazine, which seems about right. Takacs is another among many prolific Hungarian goalscorers. He ranked 39th in the same exercise. Austria: Hasil is there mainly on club form. Schall and Decker are also in the running. Sweden: Skoglund appears to be the only other realistic candidate. Denmark: John Hansen was by all accounts a fine finisher but little else. He profited a lot from the creative skills of Praest and K-A Hansen. Elkjaer also seems to have been noted more for effectiveness than class. Belgium: Mermans was another specialist goalscorer. Belgium has produced several fine goalkeepers who merit consideration. Poland: Cieslik was voted Poland's best-ever player in 1969, Lubanski in 2003. Kasperczak is CM in most all-time Polish sides. Willimowski was ignored by Polish historians for a long time for political reasons and is underrated. He scored over 550 official goals. Gadocha normally ranks below fellow winger Lato. @Smoga @Skandal!!! Former Czechoslovakia: Puc has good goalscoring numbers for a winger. A Czech poll in 2009 placed him 15th. Former USSR: Shesternev is probably the leading Soviet defender, but only once (in 1970) was he voted in the first six for Eastern European Footballer of the Year. This was also the year he finished highest in the Ballon d'Or (10th). Former Yugoslavia: There seem to be quite a lot of players at a similar level. Sekularac can be added to these. Perhaps also Prosinecki. Yes Dzajic is Dragan.
More Top 5s below. A reminder that they are based on a combination of lists, old and new. Germany: Beckenbauer, G Muller, Rummenigge, Matthaus. Plus 1 from Szepan, Fritz Walter, Seeler, Netzer, Breitner Italy: Meazza, Baresi, Maldini. Plus 2 from V Mazzola, Facchetti, Rivera, Zoff, Baggio, Buffon France: Kopa, Platini, Zidane. Plus 2 from Fontaine, Giresse, Tigana, Desailly, Thuram, Henry Spain: Suarez, Xavi, Iniesta. Plus 2 from Samitier, Zamora, Gento, Raul, Casillas Netherlands: Cruyff, Gullit, van Basten. Plus 2 from Wilkes, van Hanegem, Rijkaard, Bergkamp, Robben Portugal: Eusebio, Figo, C Ronaldo. Plus 2 from Germano, Coluna, Rui Costa, Futre England: Matthews, Charlton, Moore. Plus 2 from GO Smith, Dean, Finney, Edwards, Greaves, Banks, Keegan Scotland: Law, Dalglish. Plus 3 from C Campbell, N Ross, James, Morton, Gallacher, Bremner, Johnstone Wales: Meredith, J Charles, Giggs, Bale. Plus 1 from I Allchurch, Southall, Rush Ireland/Northern Ireland (Combined): Best. Plus 4 from P Gallacher, Doherty, Carey, Blanchflower, Giles, Jennings, Brady, McGrath, Roy Keane