CSA launching Canadian Premier League

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by fuzzx, Jul 10, 2014.

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  1. Nidal Baba Superstar

    Sep 20, 2006
    Far away
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is gonna be a long-ass time 'til this league starts, so gotta pass the hours somehow!

    So yeah, back on topic:

    Wawa vs. Sheetz?
     
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  2. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ending that competition in favor of another would probably, unless there was a long planning period, violate a number of sponsorship agreements. More than that, the threat of a lawsuit from the three biggest soccer teams in Canada and the sponsors associated with those teams, the Canadian Championship, and the CSA itself (Amway, Bell, BMO) is probably enough to deter any action of the sort suggested. Those are big organizations with legal budgets that probably dwarf the operating budget of the entire CSA. It would not be in their best interests to tick all of them off.
     
  3. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    the sponsorships agreements for the Canadian championship is totally separate from any TFC deals. The Kia sponsorships (like the car in north east corner) are all covered up....the only mention of BMO is because they have signed a separate agreement with the CSA to sponsor the event. When matches are played at BMO electronic boards ad boards are 100% Amway...and the non electric ad boards are simply covered over.

    It is a totally separate event that, yes, has contracts but since this league is in its planning stages (and may never actually see the light) that can be managed by either transfering those contracts to the new tournament or simply timing the onset of the new tournament with the end of those agreements.


    As I said, that law suit would last about 5 minutes in a Canadian court.....question 1....who owns the right to assign the qualification spot....answer The Canadian Soccer Association, your honour. question 2...do you have any contract with the CSA that, in perpituity, the spot would always be assigned to the winner of a competition that you took part in? answer No, your honour. Question 3...Why are you wasting the courts time? answer...we thought we would give it a go, your honour. Case dismissed.

    There may be reasons that the CSA does not play that card...and they may be business related....but they won't because of any threat of a lawsuit.
     
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  4. fuzzx

    fuzzx Member+

    Feb 4, 2012
    Brossard
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The CSA has indicated that they see no benefit in modifying the sanctioning of MLS or NASL teams. They are not being forced to move to the new league. They consider a positive relationship to be more useful than forcing all parties to the table for a new endevour.

    Given that, I can't imagine the CCL spot is up for grab.

    We already have a new Voyageurs cup system that has made room for an expanded number of teams, The most sensible move forward is for a certain number of teams in the new league to take part in the existing system. Either alongside NASL or in another round before that.

    There has already been news from League1 Ontario and PLSQ that the winner of their leagues may be eligible to enter the tournament at some point in the future. It's the simplest thing to additionally slot the new league this was as well.
     
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  5. redinthemorning

    redinthemorning Member+

    Apr 26, 2011
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no idea about any lawsuits, but it just seems like bad business. Why potentially alienate sponsors of Canadian MLS teams or the league as a whole? Why prioritize teams that will likely play second-fiddle in larger markets (or worse, eschew those markets altogether)?

    The CSA can sanction a new league and still grow the Canadian Championship into something more meaningful that includes MLS clubs. Those are not mutually exclusive.
     
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  6. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The only reason (that I can think of) is that it is likely that pitted against the much higher budget MLS teams, it is unlikely that any of the clubs in the new league would make it to the Concacaf tournament....so any value that "carrot" would have in attracting league investors and/or sponsors would be very limited.......but if the spot was an exclusive right of the champion of the league you could guarantee (obviously) that one of the league participants would be in the CCL.
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't the lack of their own D1 league the primary reason why Canada only has one CCL spot? If/when this league starts up, I would think the CSA will be asking CONCACAF for a second spot..
     
  8. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think it has more to do with the country's co-efficient....but don't quote me on that.
     
  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CONCACAF doesn't explain why it does what it does. The statutes specify that, basically, the ExCo will decide how to set the field and there is no appeal.

    That said, MexiCo and the US both having four slots could be due simply to population. No real help for Canada there. But El Salvador, Guatemala and Panama all have 2 spots and Costa Rica and Honduras have 3.

    The only reason can be the number of professional clubs first division or otherwise.

    So a Canadian league ought to get them at least one more, maybe 2.

    If that happens, the Caribbean will likely come knocking for more as well. They've never felt that 3 total was enough.
     
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  11. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    How many Caribbean leagues are professional? IIRC even one of their best league Jamaica is semi pro?

    If being pro vs semi pro matters in terms of giving out spots
     
  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Concacaf does things for $$$$$$, not sure how much a canada team in say Hammilton would add, buy if Canada gets a D1 league, the would have a good case for at least a second CCL spot.
     
  13. themightymagyar

    Aug 25, 2009
    Indianapolis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fully pro? None that I can think of. There are a few that claim to be professional; Jamaica, Haiti, T&T. But a good chunk of players all have other jobs. However, there are some teams that do try to operate at a full professional level, but it's certainly not any entire league that I know. Then again, there are 30 FAs in the region. Maybe St Vincent or Bermuda have a fully pro league I'm not aware of?
     
  14. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My thinking, as well, and perhaps this new league could become the impetus for restructuring the CL once more. To wit, I'd have to imagine that CONCACAF would want to see both the new league prosper as well as find ways for the CL to grow. Let's face it, there's only so far this competition can reach based on semi-pro clubs and relying on smaller nations. Not only would they like to see more of Canada fully engaged but they'll see how a stronger Canada would likely pique more interest from fans in the US and possibly Mexico. This might even help spur reformation among the Caribbean nations and their teams and leagues, and find ways to advance the sport there.

    All of which is a moot discussion, however, unless this supposed league takes off.
     
  15. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    thanks.....well a second spot would solve the whole issue....keep the cup tournament between MLS teams and this new league's teams for one spot (so the new league's teams get a marketing boost from playing those matches) and give the second spot to the champion of the new league.....win win win!
     
  16. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well of course now you're getting into definitions. And they're all over the map. Of course you have Jamaica and T&T beng the best of the lot, but even there most teams mix so-called professionals with what we'd call semi pros and/or guys who play for basically meal money.

    Barbados has a league. Suriname. Haiti, I think. (The latter being one of the most if not THE most populous countries in the Caribbean). Some others of, shall we say, variable quality.

    They do, however, have a CFU Club Championship, which makes the selection easier. Last four in, for example, or last two plus Jamaica and T&T. Several formats suggest themselves.

    All comes down to politics. The CFU is very touchy about thier status as everybody's little brothers, and anything that sniffs of expanding the CCL is going to have to take that into account.

    The only plus is that the CONCACAF ExCo, rather than the COngress, is constitutionally in charge of organizing the thing. So they onlyhold 2 out of six votes. Otherwise they'd probably demand equal representation.
     
  17. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    Jamaican here: the answer to your question is zero. There is no fully professional league in the Caribbean, even in Jamaica or Trinidad (the best leagues in the region and probably the richest). This is why, for example, top Jamaican players (ex: Damani Ralph, Andre Blake, and many more) can compete in the Jamaican top-tier and still start NCAA careers right after without issue - the NCAA treats the Jamaican top tier like the PDL, and you can remain an amateur status while playing there. A lot of young players compete for free and jump to college later as a result of this.

    Trinidad comes the closest to fully professional, thanks in large part to their oil/gas money. Even there, only a handful of players make what could be called a living wage by Trinidadian standards. You do find a lot of Jamaicans, Guyanese, and other Caribbeans in the Trini league because it offers the best pay in the region. I hear that the Antiguan league pays quite well too, but it falls below Trinidad.

    In Jamaica, $300/month is a standard going rate (if you're lucky - payment is often late and can be delayed for a very long while). The 2 or 3 superstars in the league get $900/month at most, and almost all of them have second jobs since that's really not enough to live on (especially in the Jamaican capital, Kingston, where most of the top tier teams and most of the league's superstars are located).

    Hey, we gotta look out for ourselves. Who else would? Let's be honest: if the rest of the federation had its way, we might have no representation at all. If the rest of the world had its way, we'd probably get less respect/representation than Oceania does.

    That being said, there probably aren't more than 4 teams in the Caribbean at any given time worth entering the CCL in an expanded format. The very best are good enough to match MLS reserve sides at home, but there just aren't many teams in the region with that kind of quality. Also, there are very few (probably less than 4) teams at any given time that can probably even afford to fund a CCL campaign. Jamaican clubs regularly withdraw from the event for monetary reasons. Many of them can barely keep the lights on, and I mean that quite literally. This means that even if the total moved to 4, you may still in practice end up with only 2 or 3 teams. I know that this cycle there were two Jamaican teams that qualified for the Caribbean qualifying round for the CCL, and only one (Montego Bay United) ended up going.
     
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  18. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're probably right about how the rest of the confederation thinks, and no one blames you for sticking up for yourselves. This is FIFA, and politics rules. No problem.

    CONCACAF should be paying the clubs expenses like they do for national teams. I think most of us love having the islands represented in these things.

    No they're not going to win, but the US never does either.
     
  19. fridge46

    fridge46 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    CONCACAF do pay travel expenses [Article V.A (page 16)]

    The issue is CONCACAF f@!ks clubs sideways by taking the majority of revenue!
     
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  20. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure that the home team gets to keep all the gate receipts.

    And teams get a lump sum for expenses. Everybody gets the same IIRC. Whether that covers the whole nut probably varies.

    CONCACAF does pocket TV and sponsorship money.
     
  21. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm sure this has been bandied about somewhere but has there been any recent, formal consideration for a Caribbean league as opposed to leaving each island nation to fend for themselves? I can't help but think there might be a model that enables a 10-16 team league across multiple nations, and surely that would garner some appeal, no?
     
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  22. themightymagyar

    Aug 25, 2009
    Indianapolis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I imagine travel costs being a huge barrier for that.
     
  23. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Possibly. I've only gone directly to and from the mainland so I couldn't say the costs of island hopping. You'd think some of them seem close enough that they could work with charters, and that if each team could then draw a sizable home crowd of 10k or so...

    I'm simply thinking out loud about options for small nations. There was the proposal for an ASEAN regional league involving the likes of Cambodia that's been scuttled due to local reasons but it seems sooner or later joint national leagues will have to come about for any tiny nations interested in achieving/sustaining professional soccer. At the least I hope the option is made available for those interested.
     
  24. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This has indeed been discussed and it's a grand idea imo.
     
  25. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    Yes, proposals have been made. Nothing has gotten off the ground, though. The last attempt didn't go so well. themightymagyar is correct to note travel costs - island hopping is pricier than you'd think, and this is a big issue.
    It would be hugely beneficial for the Caribbean to have its own pro league, but the money, political will, and organization just aren't there right now.

    My own pipe dream (the whole "what I'd do if I were a billionaire" hypothetical) is to eventually see a Caribbean team or two in MLS (based in Jamaica, or Trinidad, or maybe both) and more in the USL (like the Islanders and Barracuda), but that's quite unrealistic. We'll see how the new Islanders (PRFC) go, but history says the money and support just isn't there to make these projects viable long-term.
     

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