http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA Fahrenheit 9/11 Flap Article! Of course they're upset about the movie being shown in the classroom. It kind of goes back to my old signature, which will be returning shortly... a quote from Paulo Freire. “In the name of the respect I should have toward my students, I do not see why I should omit or hide my political stance by proclaiming a neutral position that does not exist. On the contrary, my role as a teacher is to assent the students’ right to compare, to choose, to rupture, to decide.” So many of the people who wanted it banned never even saw it. Can it be viewed as a criticism of Bush? Sure. Can it be viewed objectively as well? I think so. It all depends what you say about it. I think that if you say, "Here's this movie. This is why your parents shouldn't vote for Bush"........ well, I think you are crossing a line. If you say, "Let's talk about this."....... I think you're being a good teacher. What do you think? Let's try to keep to the topic and not go off on rants about which way people should vote. Is it ok to show it in class? I think it is... depending on the class. I won't be showing it in my English classes, but it is certainly not the only piece of "propaganda" students see. We study "great" speeches, rhetoric... lots of things that could be considered controversial. I think the GOP has its own agenda in trying to raise an issue with its showing.
This is a tough one. There is a very fine line between giving information and influencing opinion. I could see a teacher using the film in an elective class about film, and thus using it to look at methods of achieving a point in a documentary. Outside of that limited range, I just don't see what the point would be. In writing the rationale for the use of the film, I just can't really think of too many justifiable reasons to use F911. The vast majority of lessons it could be used for would be better served with less controvertial material. I would be concerned that the divisiveness of the movie would overshadow the lesson the teacher built for the movie. Basically, I see it in the same vein as I see the use of the Bible in schools. Yeah, technically there is a place for it, but that place is built upon flimsy logic and it really doesn't need to be there. As literature, the Bible isn't that impressive a work, and that is the very limited ground through which it can be taught. The divisiveness and distractive nature of the Bible would corrupt any lessons built around the literary aspects of it, and many teachers wouldn't be able to resist "preaching" or denouncing the book as truth or dogmatic religious propoganda. Same thing with F911. It just doesn't offer enough educational value to balance out the negatives that inherantly come along with it. And, for the record, I'm a Democrat and I rather enjoyed F911. As to the quote you posted, Iceblink, I think there is a middle ground where teachers need to tread. It's unrealistic to play the role of having NO political opinion. However, it is possible to hold an opinion and not make it an issue in the class. Some of the best teachers I've observed have held very strong political opinions across the spectrum. Their students know that these teachers hold opinions, but they don't know what those opinions are. They realize that it's none of their business and not relevant to the content of the course. These teachers have taught the value and skill of forming and holding to an opinion. These teachers have taught their students how to use facts to support their opinions. Really, having done all of that, the opinion of the teacher is irrelevant to the goals. Just my view on it.
I think you almost have to approach a film like this from the "what are your criticisms of it" view. Because it is biased, blatantly so. (The Afghanistan pipeline - give me a break.) I'll be honest - I think Moore's a mediocrity who's great at self-promotion. He screeches a lot, but much of his actual "thought" that's in his recycled books is very simplistic. However, he makes a good film. That being said, I think Bowling for Columbine would be an easier teaching movie, since its not quite so partisan, although I have a hard time forgiving Moore for what he did to Heston (and I've never owned a gun in my life). Some common decency would have been nice, and a picture of that girl...................
Good points. As to political opinions in the class room, expressing them is one thing. Honoring the reasonably-expressed and adequately supported views of others is something else. In college level comp classes, I've given A's to papers that express opinions I disagree with and F's to those similar to my own (though badly expressed and supported). Of course, granting grades based on conformity to one's own views backfires pretty regularly. My 9th grade civics teacher was an area chairperson in the John Birch Society and he made that very clear. His political views later became so extreme the American Legion kicked him out (he kept writing letters to the editor after the Oklahoma City bombing arguing that it was obviously foreigners who did it, but if it was Americans, it was okay as the Clinton Administration deserved it). Anyhoo... this guy pushed me to the left pretty early on. I've seen the opposite, too. Idiotic lefty teachers pushing students to the right (like a woman I taught with at UIC when we were in graduate school, trying to make a veteran of the US's Somalia operation "see things from the Somali perspective..." An admirable goal when the guy is in his 50s and has some distance between himself and rather traumatic events, but at the time... man, give the guy a break. Getting someone to sympathize with someone who was trying to end his life is pretty friggin' stupid, and not something a college composition instructor w/o military experience should try). As to Faranheit 9/11: I wouldn't show it in a class. I try to elevate the game, so rather than going with the Michael Moore/Ann Coulter level of discourse, I try to get it up to, say, John Stuart Mill/Russell Kirk. The one effect that approach has is that it increases students' impatience with the shoddiness of typical mass-media political discourse in the US, and I think that's a good thing... Sorry for the ramble. My boss has the morning off, and my MLS team didn't make the playoffs, so I have a lot of time to dwell here today.
Why not show F911 and then show the Farenhype 911 and Michael Moore hates America films afterwards? Also show the newspaper articles where they point out how Michael Moore doctored a photo and Dave Kopel's point by point breakdown of the movie (59 deceits). Moore has finally admitted that his movie is an op/ed and not fair and balanced so I hope your kids know that.
The movie will be aired here in germany tonight, too. i think in a few years the movie will be good for showing: "That's how the election was back then, here you have some voices about it", and I agree with Iceblink for what he said... btw, I am still a student an we'll watch it in poitics class soon (next week or so), too... but here in germany it isn't that argueable whether to watch it or not. Moore is no doubt a 'populist', as we say here in germany (don't know the english word), so I would not want to have the movie seen by any kids uncommented and uncriticised... but then again, Moore does for sure not hate america...
It's a partisian movie, so no. Schools, especially public ones, have to and should be bi-partisian. This can be viewed as a sensitive issue for some kids who may not wish to watch it. Definately a no.
Ok... now that the election is over... any changes in opinion? It obviously can't do quite the same damage that some once thought it could.
How could people not notice it was op/ed? That movie made me so annoyed that I was arguing with the tv and deciding that maybe I should take pity on Bush.
I used to use Roger and Me in the college classroom, but that was before Michael Moore was MICHAEL MOORE, and it led to some pretty interesting discussions about the presentation of material. With hindsight, there are better filmmakers to show. If your interest is in disecting the bias or angle in documentary films, you could do better by showning a movie that keeps its political cards closer to its chest, like The Thin Blue Line. It's a better movie than anything Moore has done, and the demands it makes on the students are greater. A student who studies Morris can then figure out Moore on his or her own, although a student who only studies bias in Moore might have a tougher time figuring out Morris.
I wouldn't normally support having F 9/11 taught in schools. Unless a teacher shows a film which balances out the film. In this case, show Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11.
I actually watched that movie in my ethics class. It was my first time watching it and it was one of the best movies i have ever seen. It was actually an extra credit assignment where we had to write about the ethics presented in the movie. A lot of the kids in my class are Republicans so they were literally freaking out when my teacher started showing the movie. I think one kid is going to bring Fahrenhype 9/11 to class for us to see it.
Sorry, but no. Unless the teacher is a tool showing F 9/11 to espouse his or her own views, classroom discussion should suffice. The object isn't to show two views and leave students on their own to decide which one they prefer. What you describe is not analysis.
I agree with this. No one was talking about showing the film as a way to garner votes for one candidate over another. It was simply a tool to foment discussion. There's no equal time requirement for the classroom.
Because the "film" was so craftily edited, maybe it could be shown in a film class, but nowhere else does a piece of garbage like that belong. The documentary is full of lies and deceptions, it's incredible how many people buy into the crap. After all, if Michael Moore says it, it must be true...christ almighty!