Cristiano Ronaldo or Brazilian Ronaldo

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Mysterious, Feb 19, 2008.

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  1. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    Well Gerrard is a good example of someone who developed his game over his career. He is one of the best attacking midfielders around now but started off at right back. I am not judging Anderson on his goalscoring because he is not playing in advanced positions. If he was being played as an attacking midfielder, then yes goalscoring would be an issue when assessing his performances. There is no reason why Anderson will also develop his game over his career. I think it likely. However it is also the case that he has been in worse form this year than last year. All his best moments in his Utd career have been from last year.

    As for the Hleb question, I shall ask it in the Arsenal forum. But since I live with an Arsenal fan and have Arsenal fans for friends, I am well aware of the general opinion on Hleb.
     
  2. zippy85

    zippy85 Red Card

    Jul 4, 2007
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Ronaldo is not a playmaker, he steals all of the chances for himself.
     
  3. Bronaldo

    Bronaldo Red Card

    Apr 8, 2007
    Canada
    Yea, he steals goals :rolleyes:
     
  4. zippy85

    zippy85 Red Card

    Jul 4, 2007
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He does because he is a greedy pig regarding football, I hate seeing him play.
     
  5. Joelzinho

    Joelzinho Member

    May 23, 2005
    Montreal!
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Okay, that doesn't make any sense.

    Really? I remember you being ready to get down on your knees previously and praise him when you use to come around the Manchester United forums?
     
  6. O Fenômeno

    O Fenômeno New Member

    Apr 21, 2007
    New Jersey

    LOL..

    People are sounding like idiots....

    As long as Gerrard is alive and kicking...as well as being average...NO one will be more overrated than him. Not to mention

    Adebayor...
     
  7. zippy85

    zippy85 Red Card

    Jul 4, 2007
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I like Anderson but i would still take Gerrard over him, Anderson is cuter though, at least he has that over him.
     
  8. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Listen, hleb almost never played attacking mid at arsenal, so it doesnt matter what he is if he didnt play that position. And you shall pose that question to the Stuttgart fans, that got to watch him in his natural position.

    I have mentioned in many other threads how bad hleb's shooting is, but whether you like to admit it or not, that does not mean he has no impact offensively. If you didnt understand that by my last post where i explained it and gave examples, then there's nothing left to say on the issue.
    FYI xavi is not an attacking mid
     
  9. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    This is what Arsenal fans thought of Hleb sometime in the middle of last season (when they were Brazil 1970 version 2)

    [​IMG]
     
  10. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    what is your point and what does it have to do with the discussion?
     
  11. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    I did not say Xavi is an attacking mid. I mentioned him because you did. He has also outscored Hleb!

    You may pretend to be a Hleb expert but your increasingly desperate attempts to portray Hleb as anything but an attacking midfielder are revealing the 'extent' of your knowledge. Where in your 'expert' opinion did Hleb play at Arsenal if not as an attacking midfielder?

    I did not say Hleb had no impact offensively, I said he offered no goal threat and this was a glaring weakness in his game. You then started talking nonsense in a vain attempt to justify the fact that Hleb has an atrocious goal-scoring record in recent years. Why should I ask the Stuttgart fans anything. I have seen Hleb play countless times for Arsenal myself and I use that as the sole criteria when assessing performances. Not the second-hand opinion of fanboys from 4 seasons ago. When assessing Sheva do you suggest ignoring the games I saw him play in person for Chelsea and instead ask Milan fans how Sheva played 5 years ago? Do you not see how absurd your suggestion about asking Stuttgart fans was?

    I have put the question about Hleb to the Arsenal fans in their forum. Take a look. Argue your case if you want but they will all agree with me that Hleb was inferior to Pires.

    You may go around town wearing your Hleb shirt but I do not. I think he is overrated and he has an appalling scoring rate for an attacking midfielder in a major side.
     
  12. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    I have seen you attempting to dig up this pic to post here. However I think you will find that just cos Hleb's family put up a banner that this does not mean all Arsenal fans concur. I am sure Eboue's family put up a banner saying Eboue is the new Garrincha but this does not make it true.

    I have put the Hleb/Pires question to Arsenal. Take a look at the thread to gauge their opinions on the issue.
     
  13. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    Doesn't that happen with most players who leave a club on their terms; fans tend to say that they weren't any good in the first place. This clearly demonstrates that some Arsenal fans thought of him that highly then; a quick search of the web or BS itself sometime last Nov/Dec would confirm that most of them thought of him pretty highly.
    Their opinions on Flamini or Hleb now is obviously no indicator of their actual opinions.
     
  14. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Your desperation has no bounds does it? If i had only watched hleb at arsenal and not before nor with his international games then i too would think pires creates more. You have made it blatantly obvious that you have no clue on the player as you have to ask where hleb played at arsenal, that alone throws all of your credibility out the window.
    And since you have a hard time with comprehension ill explain the stuttgart fans comment. You foolishly suggested to post the question to arsenal fans but if you wanted a true answer on the player's abilities you should ask the fans that witnessed him play his natural position, and i dont know why you have to ask anyone, can't make the decision on your own? if you dont know the player's strengths nor the position he plays you have no credibility in the matter.

    And i am no hleb expert but unlike you i have watched his games for the national side and before arsenal and know how he plays in his natural position.
     
  15. Big Soccer Member

    Jan 16, 2008
    Surrey, England
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Pires is the best winger mentioned on this thread so far. Hleb is not fit to lace his boots.

    P.S Ronaldo is not a winger.
     
  16. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    I have a hard time comprehending your illogical arguments. You said that Hleb did not play as an attacking midfielder. I then asked you what position would you say he played at Arsenal. You then somehow interpret this as meaning I did not have an opinion on where he played. This is illogical as I have previously stated he was played as an attacking midfielder. It is you who have not declared an opinion on his position at Arsenal. I ask again what position would you say Hleb played at Arsenal? Stop avoiding this question.

    Then I stated categorically that my opinion of Hleb was based solely on my personally witnessing Hleb play numerous games for Arsenal and not based on second hand vicarious accounts. This was in response to your suggestion to me to ask Stuttgart fans about Hleb. Why would I do this when my assessment of Hleb is based on my own viewings? You then made the spurious claim that Hleb at Arsenal was better than Pires at creating chances and had better ball control. I then put this question to Arsenal fans who agreed with me that you are talking out of your a@se.

    Only a clown would seek to assess Hleb's game and seek to put more weight on events of 4 seasons ago rather than more recent events. This is precisely what you are seeking to do. You are simply unable to admit that Hleb is an attacking midfielder and one who is rubbish at scoring goals. You can also state his lack of versatility is a weakness if you are blaming his poor form on playing in a postion you regard as not being optimal (not that you will offer an opinion on the positions that he was playing in at Arsenal) Everyone else can accept this truth apart from you. Your love for Hleb is blinding you and preventing you from accepting that not everyone creams themselves when Hleb appears on TV.

    You seem to hate C Ronaldo and this is palpable in your increasingly futile criticisms of his game. Similarly you have an unremitting and startling admiration for Hleb - a player who neither deserves such regard and who is completely inferior to a player C Ronaldo who you consistently criticise. In the light of this it is your agenda and credibility that must be (and is) regarded with some amusement and suspicion and a great deal of pity. Keep spouting your nonsensical opinions and let those of us who have a reality-based view keep discussing reality-based football topics. ;)
     
  17. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    So by that logic you can offer no valid opinions on Cantona, Beckham, Best or Keane as this would be no indicator of your actual opinions! Is this what you are actually trying to claim? You might have to consider the implications of your future on BS if you stand by that claim. Are you really trying to say that your opinions on these players is of no worth and should be discounted?
     
  18. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    None of those players mentioned left the club on their own terms did they?
    Beckham was happy at United but Fergie wanted him out. Same with Keane. Cantona retired after Utd.

    It is a different thing when you ask Arsenal fans about Flamini (who left them for Milan) or a Spurs fans about Berbatov. There is where (obvious) prejudice kicks in.
     
  19. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    It is quite amusing watching you squirm, but not much more is expected from a poster who has no clue what they're talking about. I could dissect each and every nonsensical line you posted, but ill only address the most blaring absurdities.

    Since you have already embarrased yourself by not knowing what position he played with Arsenal, ill decide to throw you a bone. Hleb was not used as an attacking mid for most of arsenal's games. He was more as a wing player, not a true winger, but an outside mid. In his last season he sometimes played as supporting striker behind adebayor. Now, you wouldve known that if you actually watched the games instead of talking out your a**.

    Second, focus on reading comprehension since you are severly lacking in that department. The issue was who creates more chances and who has better ball control OVERALL and not just at arsenal. You are either intentionally adding the part about only at arsenal or are too stupid to have comprehended it the first time.

    Third, only a clown would think scoring is the only aspect to an attacking player's game and tries to compare goal scoring records between players of different positions.

    Lastly, criticizing Ronaldo does not mean hleb is the better player. You foolishly claiming so shows how clueless you are. So my advice is to go back and actually watch the games and players that you are commenting on and leave the adults to do the discussing.
     
  20. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    You did not dissect my 'nonsensical' lines because everyone who has seen your posting history is aware you lack the required intelligence to do so. It is evident by your pathetic attempts to hide Hleb's appalling goal scoring record by bringing up his form from his time in Germany and giving this more importance than his more recent seasons at Arsenal.

    Only someone who is plainly losing an argument would attempt to claim Hleb playing as an outside wing is not playing as an attacking midfielder. An attacking player on the wing is clearly an attacking midfielder. Only in your fairy-tale world is the wing not part of midfield. In the world of reality Hleb playing as an attacker on the wing comes under the description of attacking midfielder. Also on the occasions last season when Hleb was playing in the hole the fact that he hardly scored is an even worse indictment because being able to score from that position is even more of a required quality.

    Your embarrassing diatribes against C Ronaldo in this very thread, reveal how one-eyed, subjective and biased you are. Your man-crush on Hleb has also revealed how much you embrace double-standards. You nitpick C Ronaldo's game to an hysterical level and yet fail to allow similar standards to be applied to your BFF Hleb. When someone says Hleb is overrated and dares to have a differing opinion you spit out the dummy and start bleating the following...

    a) Hleb used to be good and we should forget about his time in Arsenal when he was not so good!

    b) You then blatantly lie about Hleb not playing as an attacking midfielder and infer he should not thus be expected to score.

    c) admit in another thread (in which virtually every poster disagreed with your assertion that Hleb created more chances than Pires while at Arsenal) that Hleb played as an attacker in midfield, contradicting your earlier objections to him being classified by me as an attacking midfielder. You then belatedly admit (when pressed by me) that Hleb did play in the hole, knowing full well that for someone playing in such an advanced position should clearly be expected to weigh in with some goals. Your ludicrous claim that Hleb played in a position such that he should not be expected to have such a poor goalscoring tally was contradicted by your reluctant admission that Hleb played some games in the hole or as a split striker.

    d) Your latest weak argument is stating that it is somehow strange to compare attacking midfielders and the number of goals they score. You are only taking such a position because you know that Hleb is embarrassed when such comparisons to his peers are made. You make another false claim and state that I have said that goalscoring is the only measure of a player. Nowhere has this been stated by me. On the contrary, I feel that players should be compared with their peers and this comparision should include goal-scoring when it comes to attacking players. Hleb plainly is an attacking player.

    As for my reading comprehension, I noticed you were unable to spell the word severely correctly and that you failed to use capital letters when spelling Hleb and Arsenal and Adebayor. You also had problems spelling I'll.

    Phil80, the more you post, the more this forum becomes convinced you are sitting in the corner, wearing a big hat with a 'D' on it. Keep going, Phil80. Logic or indeed football is plainly not your forte. Perhaps if you went to some games you might learn something. You are just getting owned both here and in that thread on the Arsenal forum. Still I guess it means Teso can take a break from calling you out for posting garbage.
     
  21. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    It is hysterical watching you get your panties in a bunch. I've decided it's impossible to debate a simpleton that lacks basic reading comprehension skiills, so ill leave you alone to throw your idiotic tantrum elsewhere. When you realize that a football player is not solely judged on goals scored and that Xavi, Hleb, and Lampard all played different positions, then you can rejoin the conversation, until then take your mental diarrhea to a more appropriate thead where posters dont notice how idiotic you sound.
     
  22. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    I think our dispute has got a bit heated and it might be time to call a truce.

    I apologise to Phil80 for becoming insulting and personal over our disagreement about a player. We'll have to accept we disagree on this issue. I also apologise to the rest of the thread for going off-topic about Hleb.
     
  23. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    I cannot be bothered having a simultaneous argument across two separate boards. If anyone does wish to continue the discussion then let me know whether to post here or on the Arsenal board.
     
  24. F.L.I.P.

    F.L.I.P. Member

    Apr 26, 2005
    Prime for prime, R9 was on another level, nearing the GOAT level - almost close to the Pele/Maradona level...
     
  25. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Lather, rinse, and repeat ... :p
     

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