I feel like there's a very clear athletic difference between late 00s to early 10s compared to 2014 CR7. His build in 2012 still looked like a winger. The way his body moved and such. By 2014, I think he had a more forward build. Looked bulkier and very explosive, but noticeably lost some ability to shift and change speed and direction at will that he once had earlier.
Wake up from your twilight zone Spain 2018 2011 ELO points Portugal 2018 1959 ELO points Spain was superior to Portugal by 52 ELO points Ronaldo scored a hattrick https://www.eloratings.net/2018 West Germany 1974 2128 ELO points The Netherlands 1974 2091 ELL points West Germany 1974 was superior to the Netherlands by 30 ELO points Cruyff scored 0 goals,0 Opta assists and 0 pre assists https://www.eloratings.net/1974 Cruyff with the dutch superteam was devastating against teams like Sweden which is like Ronaldo with Madrid destroying teams like getafe which he routinely did
I'm not sure why you sent Ronaldo vs Spain. Spain 2012 is the best version of Spain between 2008, 2010 and 2012. So because he had a bad game against the best team in the world does that mean "he only shines when the super team is by his side"? What about his performance against Netherlands in 2012 (the team that reached final in 2010 and semifinal in 2014)? So you said: "The results of Ajax and Barcelona are clear with and without Cruyff". The time Ronaldo joined Real Madrid, there were irrelevant in Europe. The last time they won it was 7 years before and since then they have reached the semis only once and were knocked out from the 16th rounds 5 years in a row. Meanwhile Man United were champions of England 3 times in a row and finalist in CL 2 years in a row while winning it once. Ronaldo left an established and successful team for a team that was far inferior back then and starting a rebuild. He didn't join Real Madrid while being at their top. Real Madrid failed to pass the 16th round of the UCL in the two seasons after Ronaldo leave. Even though it's the exact same team that won 3 in a row just without Ronaldo.
Cruyff vs west Germany 74 >>> Ronaldo vs Spain 2018 in group stage Against Spain which lost against Russia with degea and weak defense I prefer Sweden 74 to Spain 2018 actually With Ronnie Hellström and Ralf Edström who had great tournaments You are only playing with numbers elo shows nothing Cruyff's performances against Poland, Italy and Belgium in the Euro 76 qualifiers in the group of death Except Poland, which team could score 4 goals against the Netherlands With Cruyff? What surprised me was Cruyff's performance when they lost 4-1 Something that Ronaldo cant even dream of Cruyff's performance against Hungary 66 in a much weaker team If you haven't seen them, now is a good chance Cruyff's performance against Brazil 74 is still better than all of Ronaldo's performances in the Euro and World Cup knockouts im afraid
Against Netherlands which finished fourth in their group and didn't have a single win That's what Ronaldo is...fake performances against fake names
He also played very well against the Czech Republic who past first in their group. So what do you value most? A Netherlands with Robben, Sneijder, Van Persie and Van der Vaart almost all in their primes who passed 4th in a group with Germany, Portugal and Denmark or the Czech Republic who past 1st in their group? You can chose, Ronaldo delivered good performances against the two
There’s some truth in all this, but I think it’s worth noting that the Eredivisie was surely much closer to a top league then than it is now. Indeed, as I’ve noted before, in the 30 years starting at Cruyff’s first full year at Ajax, only the English league won more European Cups than the Eredivisie. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1 each won fewer than the Eredivisie. And it wasn’t just because of Ajax winning three with Cruyff—an Eredivisie team won the European Cup the year before Ajax’s wins started and Ajax won again in 1995. Moreover, in that timeframe, Eredivisie teams also won the UEFA Cup three times (which was a bigger deal back then, in the European-Cup-era). Overall, in those 30 years from 1965-1966 through 1994-1995, the Eredivisie won 8 European Cup or UEFA Cup titles. Meanwhile, the English league won 13, Serie A won 12 (mostly from doing really well in the UEFA Cup), the Bundesliga won 7, La Liga won 4, and Ligue 1 won 1. Of course, that’s mostly just about the top teams (all of the Eredivisie’s aforementioned titles were won by Ajax, Feyenoord, or PSV), but more generally, we should remember that talent wasn’t as consolidated in the top few leagues back then as it is now. So I don’t think there was nearly as much of a difference between the quality of the best leagues and “lesser” leagues back then as there is now. Which perhaps goes without saying given the above. It is fundamentally not plausible now that Eredivisie could win more Champions Leagues in a 30-year span than the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, or Ligue 1. Indeed, it’s hardly even plausible that they could win one (Ajax even making the CL semifinals recently was shocking). It was a solid league back then, in an era where the leagues had much more parity.
Cruyff never performed great against a team like Spain 2012 so your point is essentially obsolete He did singlehandedly destroy the defence of peak spain in 2010 Again Cruyff never did anything remotely this technically difficult against a comparable team Enjoy watching his performances vs Crappy Sweden though Had to laugh at the Cruyff west Germany 74> Ronaldo vs Spain 18 joke though First prize for class clown of the year goes to you It's not even better then Cristiano vs France 2006 France 2006 2062 ELO points Portugal 2006 1895 ELO points France was superior to Portugal by 167 ELO points https://www.eloratings.net/2006 Cristiano Ronaldo vs France 2006 Sofascore rating 0 goals+0 assists 3 dribbles completed 3 key passes 68 touches https://www.sofascore.com/portugal-france/GObseUb Cruyff vs west Germany 1974 West Germany was superior to the Netherlands by 37 ELO points 0 goals+0 assists 3 dribbles 2 key passes 66 touches https://www.sofascore.com/player/johan-cruyff/1419691 The only difference between Cristiano and Cruyff at world cup level is that Cruyff battered the non competitive sides he faced and Cristiano did not This stuff about Cruyff destroying big teams at world cup level and Cristiano not is nothing more then a myth
You have to choose. I talked about Ronaldo's performance against the Netherlands and you complained that they passed 4th in the group. So I showed a team that passed first in their group, then you said that the group is bad. If we say that Cristiano only shines alongside a super team just because he didn't play well against the best team in the world in 2012, so let's also say that Messi only shines alongside a super team because he was extremely poor in the CA 2021 final against Brazil. (Detail: Messi never scored against Brazil in CA/WC)
Ronaldo at Euro 2012 was poor?? How biased can you be. This is coming from someone who does not think he has much of a WC legacy.
I do think we have to admit that Cruyff’s average WC performance was substantially better than Ronaldo’s average WC performance. You can compare individual performances, but Ronaldo had 5 World Cups and Cruyff had 1 World Cup. Cruyff’s average level at the World Cup was definitely higher. At the same time, though, Cruyff only had one World Cup. It’s a low sample size of games, and I find it unlikely he would’ve been as good in other World Cups if he’d played them. It just would’ve been extremely difficult to do. That said, his G+A contributions at NT level more generally are quite high (actually comparable to his club stats), so he was very good for the Netherlands outside of that WC too. I take Cruyff over Ronaldo, but I do think it’s arguable, so I have no issue whatsoever with you disagreeing with that. I do think, though, that Ronaldo has to contend with being relatively disappointing at the WC compared to the very top-tier of all-time players. I think one answer to that is just that he played for Portugal and they weren’t good enough for him to have the same opportunity to shine as those other players. I think this is certainly true to at least some degree (though obviously they were good enough to win the Euros). Another answer is that we should look at NT performances more generally (particularly since World Cups are really low sample sizes of games), and his Euro performances were actually generally really good. A third answer is that, Ronaldo actually had a relatively large amount of really good performances against very top national teams—more than most all-time NT greats have actually (albeit the vast majority were in group stages and/or the euros). Even with all that in mind, though, I don’t think the overall average picture of his NT performances isn’t quite at the level of the very top tier players ever. But I think it’s also true that it wouldn’t be hard to make an argument that his club performances are better than a lot of those peoples’—and certainly from a perspective of longevity at the top. And I tend to put more value/weight on club performances as compared to NT performances than I think a lot of other people do here—mostly because major NT tournaments are really low sample sizes of games and very random. Weighing all this, I still have Cruyff ahead of Ronaldo, but that may just be because I have a higher opinion of 1960’s and 1970’s Eredivisie than you do.
Again, you playing with numbers. Ronaldo did nothing against France Cruyff's solo run in first minute is better than Ronaldo's entire World Cup career Friendly game Ronaldo can only play well against Spain in friendly matches (Cruyff never performed great against a team like Spain 2012) I told you to see Cruyff's performances against Italy, Poland, Belgium in Euro 76 qualifiers and Hungary Euro 68 qualifiers.. especially vs poland Cruyff vs Brazil is still better than Ronaldo's entire national career 0 goals in 8 World Cup knockout games and you are still talking
Ronaldo's performance against Spain in the 2010 World Cup How insolent you CR7 fans are Ronaldo doesnt shine even in Euros In Euro 2016, he wasn't even the best player of his team and only played well in 2 games Full matches of Euro 2016 games are available and you can't fool anyone In Euro 2012, he was weak against the strong Spanish team He was weak against Germany in Euro 2008 He wasn't the best player of his team in Euro 2004 Ronaldo is the biggest lie in football history.
Why should I entertain someone who says with a straight face that Cruyff with 1 goal+1 assist+1 dribble+2 key passes vs Brazil 1974 is better then the entire international career of Cristiano Ronaldo I'm not wasting my time with any crackheads here anymore tbh Its too time consuming
The biggest lie in football history? You have discredited yourself in your childishness and bias. You are talking about the undisputed greatest goalscorer of all time, 5 time Ballon D'Or, 5 time CL winner, winner of EPL, La Liga, and Serie A with top scorer and best player awards in each. I am not even a fan, but I will not accept your disrespect.
Are you okay in the head? https://www.neogol.com/top-scorers-in-football-history-top-30/ Number 1 goalscorer of all time.
I'm curious to know who, in your opinion, was the best player in Portugal at Euro 2016? He scored 3 goals and provided 3 assists directly contributing to 6 of Portugal's 9 goals (66,66%!!!) Messi was weak against Brazil in 2021 He was weak against Brazil in 2019 He was weak against Croatia in 2018 He was weak against Chile in 2016 He was weak against Chile in 2015 He was weak against Germany in 2014 He was weak against Germany in 2010 He was weak against Brazil in 2007 He wasn't Argentina's best player in 2006
I don’t necessarily disagree with the thrust of your point, but I do want to quickly note that, at the very least amongst those, Messi was not actually weak vs. Chile. He actually played well against them—particularly in 2016 I believe, though he did ultimately miss a shootout penalty. In any event, that’s just quibbling around the edges and I think your point is that you can be your team’s best player in a tournament even when you didn’t play well in certain game(s). Which is certainly true, and, for example, as you note, it’s totally true that Messi was Argentina’s best player in CA 2021 but was not their best player (or even good at all) in the final. On Euro 2016, it is correct IMO that Ronaldo only had 2 good games. My recollection is that, aside from good games against Hungary and Wales, he ranged between quite poor (vs. Poland) to okay but not good (vs. Croatia), and then of course barely played in the final. That said, I’m not sure there was a better player for Portugal, because I don’t recall them having a different player that stood out as playing consistently well. If one were to say someone played better, it’d *probably* have to be a defender (maybe Pepe or Guerreiro). The defense did do quite well aside from against Hungary. But comparing Ronaldo to defenders is also mostly comparing apples and oranges. My recollection is that Ronaldo wasn’t actually particularly good overall in the tournament, but that may not be mutually exclusive with being the team’s best attacking player.