....................... I also like Bergkamp and Laudrup... for their genius, first touch, elegance and classic kill. But... professional football involves many more attributes than these alone.
................. Honestly, for my team I prefer Patrick Vieira, Claude Makelele and Ruud Gullit... I would easily leave Bergkamp, Laudrup and Ronaldinho to manage them (on own your team in football Manager). hahaha !!! But is question of How we see Football as professional coaches or how some still see the game as mere TV viewers !!! in my view ! mate !
............. Always remember I'm not talking about you just the players' performances in general . for sure .... always nothing personal of my part only overviews about the World Football my dear friend .
..................... But is question of How we see Football as professional coaches or how some still see the game as mere TV viewers !!! in my view ! mate ! in bRazil generally are much more TV viewers only than Professional coaches like me hahaha mate . !!! so Bergkamp and Laudrup is something around of 250 assists ... more or less it .. !
................. I found one nice video about Zinedine Zidane assists ... there's 14 direct assists by Zizou and 1 indirect assists ... !!
On this one I understand the things that those players bring that the likes of Bergkamp and Laudrup, and Ronaldinho, don't....but it also works the other way of course (with the exception of Gullit in some respects, those players don't bring the same creativity, cohesion, imagination, skill etc - Vieira is not too bad at all in those aspects for a central/defensive midfielder of course though). If both teams on a pitch had '11 Makeleles' (or 10 plus goalkeepers) maybe the odds on a 0-0 would be quite short! If both teams had '11 Michael Laudrups' (or 10 plus goalkeepers) then maybe it is more likely to be 6-6! I suppose we shouldn't be too selective about examples too because there can be contra examples - eg Makelele was on the pitch in this game in which Ronaldinho was in good form, influential and decisive (there was one nice moment where Ronaldinho rubs Makelele's head too!) But yes, months later and it was a different story (not forgetting of course that Zidane, France's own skilled playmaker, was a big factor just as in 1998 as well - albeit of course he benefitted from such midfield players helping him out too). Makelele would not be doing this kind of thing in a big game too for example, if you see what I mean: And he would not be so incisive and making so many openings as Laudrup did in this big game (albeit Juventus did go out in the end, but in honesty Laudrup did enough to prevent that if team-mates had added good finishes on enough occasions after his good work): Or, in the reverse fixture years later providing the key assists to send Barcelona through: I guess we do agree on the very best players ever pretty much though anyway (Pele, Cruyff etc), albeit in those cases I guess it's simpler to conclude that they stack up very well for end product and also as total footballers to a good extent (not to say that they always played well, or that they were never in bad shape or less good technically than other times as evidently they were sometimes I think)....
Yes, that was his highest number of assists in a Serie A season apparently (but he is among the ones with very good numbers in the Champions League...perhaps still top on a per game basis for assists....).
I guess it would be surprising if either of them had significantly more than 250 career (final ball) assists yeah (but I don't have the final numbers of course).
.................... Yes, I saw this game by Ronaldinho at the heighter(at maximum peak) of his career against Chelsea 05/06 . in this game here Claude Makelele marked very very well Ronaldinho Gaucho like was in FRance vs Brazil in 2006 .
........ For example ... this France generation always won the main Brazil possible .... starts in 1997 FRance 1 x 1 Brazil tournoi du Paris ... 1998 FRance 3 x 0 Brazil World Cup .... Confederations Cup 2001 france 2 x 1 Brazil ... later Fifa anniversary in 2004 FRance 0 x 0 Brazil ... World Cup in 2006 France 1 x 0 Brazil . !!! i'm not speaking only about one game ... But many many games already matched .. !!!
........... Sombreros skills flick are amazing mate too ;!!! Patrick Vieira was a monster at all and almost a genius too !!!
Yes, I know him well of course because of the era he played in and the fact he played many years in the Premier League, but I guess I might not have seen all of the examples on the video (or maybe some I will have forgotten anyway of course)! Souster who made the video is an Arsenal fan that occasionally posts on this forum too. I will have to take a break from our conversations mate now for a while I think though, because I promised IceBlood I would get working on presenting those standings for pre-1920s years on his thread and it will take some good effort and concentration to be able to do that. I have already delayed it a while so this week I should start with that as my main task on Big Soccer. Maybe something interesting I can show you though is this top 50 made by Platini in early 1986 (I guess that he didn't really consider players who were still in their main part of their career though, as the likes of Maradona, Zico and Rummenigge are not included) - this post originally showed the magazine pages in L'Equipe https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/f...list-august-1984.2038066/page-2#post-35024309 As you can see the images disappeared from Big Soccer, but I did note down the choices he made and referred to them in this post: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/f...list-august-1984.2038066/page-3#post-35032884 So his list was at that moment apparently (in brackets I'm adding my own idea of how I might possibly order his 50 chosen players myself as an alternative list, based on what I know/saw now but as of the start of 1986 too): Pele (1), Cruyff (2), Di Stefano (3), Puskas (7), Yashin (13), S.Mazzola (30), Beckenbauer (4), B.Charlton (8), Moore (9), Tostao (29), Muller (10), Keegan (36), Didi (19), Eusebio (6), Kocsis (26), Garrincha (11), Kopa (15), Matthews (12), Schiaffino (14), Sivori (35), Zoff (33), Banks (20), Bozsik (24), Facchetti (34), Leonidas (44), Seeler (42), Schnellinger (49), Walter (32), Ademir de Menezes (31), Best (5), Fontaine (18), Gerson (27), Stabile (47), Piantoni (41), Rahn (45), Rensenbrink (28), Albert (23), Rivelino (16), Kubala (22), Maier (40), Law (25), Zamora (39), Riva (43), Gento (37), Jose Leandro Andrade (38), Carlos Alberto (21), Hurst (50), Kempes (17), Van Himst (48), Tresor (46) I think if I had free choice though a list of 50 back-dated to the start of 1986 might be more like this (for sure I expect some of these only miss Platini's own list due to longevity/career issues; on that note I can say that due to considering that enough to exclude them, given they only just emerged, that I think I'd be in theory slotting in Van Basten and also Michael Laudrup somewhere if it was just based on peak form considering till the end of 1985 calendar year, while Jean Tigana as a borderline option would possibly do enough in the remainder of 1986 to sneak in...even if it's a bit of an open question vs Pedernera for example anyway as I don't really know Pedernera well enough to make a good estimate as to whether and where I put him in in reality, like with a few other players too; maybe also Ruud Gullit is a similar case to MvB and Laudrup too having made a very good start to 1985/86 I believe) - names in bold not included by Platini (including himself!) Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Platini, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Best, Eusebio, Puskas, Charlton, Zico, Moore, Muller, Garrincha, Dalglish, Rivera, Finney, Rummenigge, Matthews, Meazza, Yashin, Neeskens, Schiaffino, Kopa, Dzajic, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Kempes, Fontaine, Edwards, Socrates, Didi, Greaves, Banks, Hidegkuti, Krol, Scirea, Carlos Alberto, Kubala, Hoddle, Liedholm, John Charles, Albert, Sindelar, Gyorgy Sarosi, Bozsik, Deyna, Law, Kocsis, Pedernera
I suppose Laudrup was the master of in effect a kind of 'sombrero pass' (just leaving this here as a final response on this thread for now): Although actually of course he was not really the first one to be doing that (Platini has done similar things occasionally, Pele even I noticed I think at least had some scoop-type passes...and of course in general he was famous since a young age with his own sombreros!)....
Also Cruyff of course (I didn't mean to forget that Puck! - the one at 0:12 I'm meaning just to clarify as there's also the outside of the boot cross on the first goal): At 2:17 on here Gianni Rivera does something a little bit similar I suppose too:
..............................In the 1981–82 season, Gullit was in fine form as Haarlem finished fourth and qualified for Europe for the only time in their history. In that same season, Gullit scored the goal he would later consider his finest: "Playing against Utrecht I went past four defenders and then the goalkeeper, and scored. It was an unforgettable goal for me."[13] Barry Hughes was so impressed with the young Gullit that he described him as the "Dutch Duncan Edwards".[12] did you find this goal in Holland . ????? ...................... It depends on the Surgical Eye of the Observer in question, criteria, metrics and level of demand and really analyzing each match thoroughly. especially when this person in question doesn't analyze football anymore as a mere TV viewer But as a demanding coach and very methodical .. ! like Arrigo Sacchi or Fabio Capello !
...................... well the entire games that i saw between Michael Laudrup and Ruud Gullit ... ............. were Holland 6 x 0 Denmark ... Ruud Gullit 1 assist crossing with right foot " so much swerve on the ball there and powerful mixed with clinical accuracy there ... in the first goal i guess mate ... one more pre-assist ...Goal by Houtman !!! he also participated with a short pass another goal in this game in 1984 . ........... Ac Milan 4 x 0 Juventu's Laudrup ... again and again ... Ruud Gullit one assist Plays a simple short pass to Marco van Basten working as a pivot in brazilian Futsal etc .... later .... one more pre-assist Goal by Evani .... he also participated Mannari's incredible goal . !!!
........................ Honestly, I saw Dennis Bergkamp's entire games again against Brazil 1998 and Italy 2000 Euro Cup played in the Netherlands and honestly I wasn't very impressed again and again with what I saw from Dennis Bergkamp in these matches. .......... .......... .......... For example Ruud Gullit against West Germany in 1990 ( World Cup 16-finals) had a slightly better performance than Dennis Bergkamp in 1998 (brazil game semi-finals ) and in 2000 (Italy game semi-finals ) .............. ..... Holland was going well in this match But Rijkaard was sent off along with Rudi Voller ... so the Holland have lost the tactical balance .. and the control of this match .... !
.................. I found this almost a entire match between Palmeiras vs Benfica in 1971 ...on TV cultura channel 2. Eusebio vs Ademir da Guia ! .....