Craig Torberg from the ticket office says...

The lateness of the draw had nothing to do with it. It was known well before the final teams had qualified when the first games were to be played, as well as the fact that all four MLS teams would open the tournament with road games.

On another note, it's refreshing to hear that us fans who aren't season ticket holders aren't valued guests.

 

Not to kiss his butt or anything, but having had the pleasure of meeting Craig Torberg in person, he is everything good about soccer front offices.

 

I'll take Craig's word for it. He's as stand up as they come. I'll also take back any comments I made about no effort seemingly being made to find an alternate venue. It's just frustrating that's all. However, I'm still curious as to how the pitch/NFL field got to be such a mess. Shouldn't it be covered if it's not going to be used for long periods of time?

 

He's a solid dude, and his love for the sport is what obviously keeps him ticking [That and the constant search for the ultimate in hair care products]. Craig reminds me Alan Rachins of L A Law fame - Douglas Brackman - and later played Dharma's dad, Larry, on Dharma & Greg.

He - Craig - even likes manchupa, a Cape Verdean staple - ask him about the time I smuggled some in to him at the 'Boro. If Marc Briggs were there at the time, he would have neutered me on the spot and fed the excess to his pet Rottweiller, Major Hochstetter. Ah...the good old days!

 

I don't know what the deal is with the "state of the art surface" at Gillette, but this is what I know of based on a similar situation in a much colder climate over 30 years ago. When I was a kid, we lived for a year in Montreal. Our next door neighbor was one of the groundskeepers at Parc Jarry, where the Expos played. My dad is a big baseball fan and became friendly with him. Not surprisingly, he had by far the best lawn/garden in the neighborhood.

If you ever saw Parc Jarry, it was basically a field surrounded by aluminum bleachers going up each foul line and in LF, with no cover. It held 28,000. The field itself was one of the bigger ones in the NL, if I recall, about 345 down the lines and 425 to dead center.

They used to cover the whole field with hay, and then a tarp at the end of the season to insulate it and to protect the grass from the weight of the snow. Of course, there was a lot of snow in Montreal, and being a long way from the coast and well north of here, the winter was a lot colder than anything in southern/coastal New England. Once the snow melted or was shoveled away, they did a lot of prep work on the field to get rid of the hay and rake up the grass blades to get them energized from a dormant winter. They always got the field in great shape for an early April start. Given the weather differences in Montreal and Foxboro, I'd say that April 5 in Montreal was as least as "early" as March 25 is in Foxboro.

The Expos might have had a few postponments in the early season, but it was never because the field was soggy/unplayable.

It can be done if you want to do it.

In this case the excuse that the draw was so late doesn't wash. No offense to Craig, but he told me at the El Salvador game November 17 that the CCC would be a knockout (and not a group, like it had been previously) and that the games would be played somewhere other than Gillette. The only thing the draw did was determine who our opponent was. We all knew we'd have a game now, so regardless of the opponent, they should have been working on this.

Tom

 

Classic!

Definitely separated at birth.

But, you gotta admit, Craig T. has some pretty cool stuff in his office!

 

Thanks Tom. That makes this Gillette thing even more peculiar. It can't be any worse than the field in Nashville when the Pats played in that Monday Night game, or could it?

 

well, as i keep writing and erasing...writing and erasing...trying to straddle the fence on my response here, i'll just refrain from saying anything bad. scott, craig is a nice guy yes. irrespective of his personal passion towards soccer and why he's still around while many have gone in the offices over there.....the revs staff is always going to toe the company line.

maybe, i didn't pay enough attention and catch all the details on the logistics and financial details of this issue..but, it sounds like instead of losing money (basically, at any venue they would have picked in this area), they chose to sell our seats to the other team's fans and actually break even or make some money. like tom wrote, regardless of the draw date...they knew they were in this thing since november.

out of respect for the fans of this side and out of respect for the rev players (by giving them the best chance possible to succeed)....the revs' "home" leg should not be open to the fans of any kind. period. does anyone disagree with this statement? if its "open", then you'll know everything you need to know about the revs' decision and there's no amount of talking to someone on the phone over there that should make you soften up to their stance.

i've had people that know lou imbriano tell me he does not like soccer.

i've relayed that sentiment to nearly all the revs employees left over there and not one single person has said "nope, you're wrong". they don't have to agree, mind you....they just don't have to stay completely silent either.

this was a complete financial mercenary decision that took nobody interests into consideration except for the man. fine. you can say he's scribbling out a check to mls and has every right to do this. fine. but in the 4 previous years i've been a ticket holder...i've gone to those lame int'l club friendlies where there were nearly more bulldogs in uniform on the pitch than revs. i've put together about 350 people together for the usmnt matches that have come thru. i've gone to the weekday games. the holiday games. the kansas city games! the weekday kansas city games!! the weekday playoff games in the rain. the weekday kansas city games in the rain!!!! the krafts (and we i suppose) have been handed 3 of the 7 mls championships...and never drew less than 35k, right? the last was nearly 62k. if we haven't paid our dues in order to see our team play in their first meaninful int'l club tourney...then we never ever will.

there's always a way to get things done if you want. they (the string pullers) may have "explored" getting it done...but only terms defined by them. not us. not the players. mostly likely not the vast majority of rev dedicated employees. even if it might have been a bit of a smokescreen (a wee bit)...and perhaps a marketing "save"...at least peter wilt had the guts to draft a letter to chi fans that saw many players disappearing from the organization. the revs? they'll deal with this the way they deal with every single issue....they don't. they want the fans to be emotional enough to cheer on goals, emotional enough to come to games, emotional enough to spread the word of soccer in mls to our friends and family. yet, they don't return or share in the emotion. the hunt family does. the anshutz (sp?) family does. and these guys don't. they just don't. its not about building for the future....its about protecting a built portfolio.

you want to believe whatever you hear from over there....fine. but when you hear logic like "we can't give discounts to kids who are season ticket holders b/c we have too many fans"...like i did. then you'll know that growing this sport and taking care of your passionate fan base first and foremost is well down on the "list of things to do today".

 

Awesome post!

because its true.
sad isnt it.

 

No excuses. None at all.

BS. Does that stand for Big Soccer? Or Bull Sh**?
Because the latter is what the Kraft Soccer Empire is feeding its loyal fans.

Let's face it, they don't give two hoots about the Concacaf Champions Cup.
They don't care about the US Open Cup.
How much do they even care about the MLS Cup, if they don't happen to be hosting it?

Just step right up, pay your money, keep your mouth shut, exit the parking lots ASAP and then get down on your knees when you get home and be greatful that they still throw any soccer bones our way.

Craig T. is one of the few "soccer people" left in the Kraft Sports Empire. Of course he's going to come up with every potentially reasonable or lame excuse in the book to save his organisation's, and his own, behind.

The Revolution are in the hands of the Patriots, my friends.
That is the reality.
They don't know soccer. And they don't give a damn.

Feel sorry Craig, who is swimming against the tide. The undertow from the oblong is very strong.

Not wanting to play at CMGI or finding another local venue (you really think BU wouldn't be available?) is nothing short of total B.S.

That is what they are feeding us.
That is the bottom line.

Get used to it, for as long as this party continues to last.

 

I guess for each of us 'The Bottom Line" is different.

For the Griffin Clan our Bottom Line is:

~We have an MLS Team in New England
~We have a team and a coach that seems to be moving in the right direction.
~When my Clan goes to matches we meet up with a bunch of great people and are not exposed to violence or abuse.
~When my team is on the road most often I can see the match on TV.
~My home field is of sufficient size and condition that it is used for major international soccer matches.
~MLS has a smart business plan that should allow the league to survive and to eventually be profitable.
~I can follow news on the team and discuss the team on the WEB.
~We are glad to be part of the core community that is supporting the growth of soccer in the USA.

George

 

granted, mls seems to have a smarter plan in place than the nasl. however, george, no offense...most of your reasons listed are all about "you" and what "you" and "your clan" is getting out of this. there are plenty of others that write this stuff on the boards here too. i'm sure there were plenty of cosmos fans thar wrote the same stuff 20 some odd years ago.

mls needs more than a smart business plan to make this work. they need more than investors that sign over the quarterly dues. they need people that can figure out a way to expand their fan base every year. people that can expand their season ticket fan base every year. and you know what? the krafts aren't really doing it. all you all can write that garbage about how winning takes care of everything but there are teams that are "swimming against the tide" and making attendance strides that go against their own record in many cases. i want this league to be around in 20 years and i want a team in this area and i want there to be 30,000 fans per game. so, how we gonna get there george? why don't you take some time and look at what the other teams are doing for their fanbases. how their approaching the creation of an "emotional attachment" to their squads through marketing, promotions, community outreach programs in addition to on-field produc. that's what superceeds the fluctuations in w's and l's. creating that "emotional attachment" is the key to any mls successes....and the krafts don't even know how to find "locksmith" in the phone book. emotional attachments are what's gonna keep people coming and this league afloat. not that "soccer is a 'cause'" extortion garbage they keep reading from the employee handbook about how if we want mls and the usmnt to be successful, then THAT'S why we have to keep renewing (no matter what they do at the stadium).

 

I agree with Reveler on this one.

I'm not satisfied JUST to have a professional team.

As my father used to say, "Either do it right or don't do it at all." Suck it up and play the damn game at Foxboro in front of 7,000 loyal fans at a financial loss. I don't think the Krafts will have to live on bread and water to do this.

 

I still think this game should have been brought back to NE. This could have been used as a promotional vehicle for the team by moving it to some place like Nickerson, Lusitano Field, Pierce Memorial, etc. I understand that lots of logistics would have needed to have been taken care of. I suspect the prospective hosts would have been thrilled for the chance to host 2000-4000 Rev fans. I wouldn't have cost much at all to get one of those fields, especially if they worked some kind of deal with parking and maybe split ticket sales.

Kraft Soccer could have made this work with a little effort and creativity.

RC

 

Right. Because you've put on dozens of stadium events for 2-4,000 fans and know that it's easy.

;-)

 

Oh, this is the thread where only stadium-owner's or event-organizers can offer their opinions? Damn thought I had one too...

The whole, "You don't know a Kraft's problem until you've taken a limo ride in his shoes" line of thinking frankly leaves me a little cold.

Craig T. is a good dude though.

 

Rodan,
Note the little winky guy beneath my post. I'm kidding. Kidding. Though it is sort of funny the way everyone just says, 'oh, they should just move the game to <insert location here>. It shouldn't be a big deal.'

Personally, my life falls apart when I try to make Thanksgiving for the in-laws. I wouldn't want to try to cook turkey for 4,000 in someone else's kitchen.


John

P.S. It isn't the 'limo ride' line of reasoning that's leaving you cold. You were cold already. This winter sucks.

 

John,

It's not easy to host a match whether it's 2,500 people or 25,000 people.... professional sports isn't about "easy", and anyone involved who thinks otherwise should be better off sitting on the sidelines from a business sense.

Just take some time when you (meaning the fans) go to the next Revolution match and see the number of people involved to try and pull things off, from media interns trying to make sure photographers are where they should be on the field, to the concessions people trying to keep up with requests for funnel cakes.

However, the best organizations are those where such activity becomes routine, even boring, because a system's put in place that works well-enough to accomodate everyone, or close to it.

I've been involved with event-planning (as part of my job) at Harvard for a number of years now, and there's a saying that, "it's only exciting when something goes wrong." Usually that's the case when there's miscommunication on some issue, an inability to respond quickly and efficiently to a problem, or when people make excuses and are not fully honest with the people they're dealing with.

Believe me, the best events are when I'm bored to tears: when everything's going to plan, when all contingencies have been allowed for, and nothing is left to chance. That doesn't mean there aren't problems from time to time, but we've accumulated the experience over the years to know how to deal with them, both consistently and professionally.

So I have a great deal of respect for those in the Revolution organization who love soccer and want to see it succeed. Granted there are times when I'm pissed as Hell at the Revolution front office, this particular case being one of them. But that's only because I know the club can do better, they can put forth a better effort that will benefit both them and the fans.

Problem is, the environment as it relates to the Revolution organization is not especially accomodating to such efforts. As several people have pointed out, people like Craig Tornberg are trying to both steer the ship AND set the sails at the same time... too few qualified people trying to do too much because the resources just aren't there. Rather than actively seeking out qualified "soccer" people to help pull the oars, the Krafts take the "easy" way out by syphoning off responsibilities to existing Patriots staff, which wouldn't be that bad if they actually liked or had an understanding of the game and it's associated nuances. The Revolution also, probably more than any other club in the league, rely upon their interns, taking advantage of their enthusiasm to do the grunt work that really makes things click on a day-to-day basis. Factor in a Managing Director who in many ways administers to the club by proxy, and a investor-operator who's unwilling or unable to keep up with the vision enjoyed by an Anschutz or Hunt, and what's a fan to do?

In many ways there's an institutional dysfunctionalism that can't be changed, and that being the case, Revolution supporters can't be proactive in changing that.

It's not that the Revolution front office staff are "dysfunctional" in and of themselves, but the resources and the organization framework (i.e., right mix of staff, experience, and responsibilities)just don't seem to be there to allow them to overcome that, at least not most of the time.

That's why the front office looks to the fans themselves for help. They realize there's a well of faith, passion, enthusiasm, and knowledgeable fans they can tap into who could turn the tide, or at the very least, keep it from overwhelming them.

Lord knows I've done what I can to help out, whether it's something as simple as buying club merchandise and wearing it around town, to assisting Revolution staff in chaperoning stadium tours...

... but it seldom seems a two-way street. So when these same fans look to the club for a show of faith and are summarily disappointed, then what are they to think? There's doing to be disappointment, disillusionment, and in some cases, hostility.

Anyway... (that was long-winded and rambling enough)

John F. Kennedy said it best in stating, "we chose to do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."

Why is it that the investor/operators of the Revs seemingly choose to do only what is easy, when the other investor/operators are willing to do what is hard?

-The Magpie

 

Sorry, but I wasn't sure if he was winking at me, or at the invisible antagonist who sits on my shoulder...

 

Aside from actually getting to see the game, the best part of them hosting the game would have been the notice at the bottom of the press release:

"The only way to insure entrance to this exciting first round match is to purchase 2003 Revolution season tickets."

 

Well said, Magpie. This is it in a nutshell. Most of us have been and would do anything to help the Revs get the word out and bring more people to the stadium. Remember the media blitz that was pushed by many of us last fall? We saw a lot more coverage, and that led to a huge crowd at the final.

I don't mind doing this sort of thing at all, but at some point there has to be a tiny bit of respect tossed back to us. Magpie is correct that it is very seldom a two-way street, even for little things that would mean a lot for us to get, and invovle very little on the giving end.

This is the sort of thing some people here don't seem to understand.

Tom

 

Tom,

It's not even as if I feel entitled to or expect a two-way street. But it would be nice to experience, at some point, some surprise/unexpected measure of reciprocity that could go work towards improving the opinion of the organization.

Whether that happens or not is left to the Revolution.

The Magpie

 

Evan, don't get me wrong, I don't expect anything from the Revs either. I gave up on that long ago, but if they were even remotely interested in anything other than taking their fans for granted, they might consider throwing us a bone every now and then.

It would go a long way. And even when someone from the club popped in here for a Q/A, that was appreciated and showed a lot of goodwill. Unfortunately, they bailed when people started asking questions that were tougher than they wanted to answer.

Tom