http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,840373,00.html To his credit, he's not changing anything - at least that's what he says now. Comments?
"Black executives at urban radio networks in America have advised him that the presence of a white guitarist will hamper his potential for a bigger fanbase. David says he was told an all-black support band would maximise sales among an African-American audience. " Someone tell these guys Blacks are only 20% of the population. Not to agree with them but this is a stupid excuse.
Not so much that 'black people' are so insular - it's just the scourge of these radio execs and PD's who won't give their listening audience credit for having any intelligence at all (in order to see past skin colors); over time, this gets reflected in the playlists and attitudes and assumptions of these stations - and yes, that is insular. Craig David's bassist is really neither here nor there in the big picture - the real problem, as stated above, is in the people who control this media and continue to shovel their audience unadulterated crap (it's a two way street - the audience does take it willingly). Any art that is perceived to have the least little sophistication or nuance, or anything so shocking as a white musician backing up a 'urban' act is deemed problematic. You can see it here in this example. (how come 'urban' stations never have a problem with the token white hoochies in booty rap videos) You can just as easily see it in the puerile junk that dominates the rest of mainstream radio - the intelligence of listeners is regarded as lower than whaleshite, and most simply keep listening anyway.
Michael K - do you listen to DJ Cam at all? But really, that is it (what he said). With the record label I bet they're going for the image thing but really, and I know I might be an "old fashioned bossa nova loving romantic ladies man" but whatever happened to having the right chemistry with musicians mattering? Not that this is the same style that I listen to but really - taht kind of thing sort of pisses me off. With some Brazilian artists, artists are from all over the world and contributing. At a Bebel Gilberto concert, her guitarist was Japanese - and he was incredible! Not that he was Japanese, but that he knew the style and had the skills to play better than most new musicians that I've heard. Another of her guitarists or no, I think it was the keyboardist was from Argentina. Very talented as well. And you see this everywhere. In Italy with Gerardo Frisina and Germany with Rainer Truby - and in Japan with a collaboration of artists from all over the world. (See Vende Tarde O Mar or "Future Listening") Then with DJ's, one of my favorites is DJ Cam, a white dude from France. Not because he is white. But because he has an affinity to understand music, sounds, background to music and somehow, he can pull out the soul of urban sound. He's amazing - extremely underrated IMO. And he's broad too - he's on a "Trip Do Brasil" cd with remixed tracks and awesome samples and his track Dieu Reconnaitra Les Siens is awesome. I'm not attacking Craig David by any means here. I think he's a talented musician, and probably this guitar player is too. But sometimes the commercialism of music in the US, not just by whites but blacks and latin Americans too can take away from the sound and the enjoyment of it IMO. Sorry to go off on a tangent but seeing that, it bothers me because little deters me more than people getting in the way of creation of enjoyable music. While I'm not a huge Craig David fan, someone else is. IS it racism? Well, I think it is prejudiced. I think it is a very bad excuse.
How many records has Eminem sold in the US to date? This is one of the best lines from the article. "It shouldn't matter what colour or creed you are. Fraser plays licks that half those urban guys can't even fathom. They can lump it or leave it."
Not yet - but based on what you've said, I'll definitely have to check him out. The way I read this story, Craig David is being a real stand-up guy in this - it's the people on this side of the pond advising him that he'd maximize his impact on US 'urban music' (such a pigeonholed music market we have here) charts by employing an all-black band that are the creeps. If appearance and skin tone is that important to conquer that market, then I think I'll go find a credible soul singer to manage, and make his backing band all hot black girls - sorta like a Robert Palmer for the 00's feel, ya know? . Yeah, that'll do it. Basically, we agreed on everything though. Not to make this another Brazilian music thread (I'm sure you've got version 4.0 or 5.0 coming up sometime), but as long as you're talking about diverse and interesting takes on different kinds of music, have you ever heard of Smokey and Miho? It's Smokey Hormel - Beck's bass player, and Miho from Japan-via-NYC indie girl rockers Cibo Matto. Me and Footix went to see them open for Cornershop earlier in the summer, not knowing what to expect. So you've got this white American guy and this little Japanese girl (and another Japanese girl backup singer), and what's the entire set? Bossa nova, I kid you not. And it was really cool, a very good set. I'm sure you could find some people - there ALWAYS are some - who would listen to them and be like 'who are these people to mess with Brazilian music like this, that Japanese girl has a funny accent singing Portuguese, etc.' I typically don't pay much attention to those whiners - I thought they were pretty good, and I'm willing to bet that if you could bring Tom Jobim back, he would've thought they were pretty cool too. Just like I'd imagine that just about any revered, black soul/R&B guitarist wouldn't have a problem with Craig David's guy being white or black - if he can play, he can play.
That sounds quite cool. I've seen Smokey Hormel play with a number of bands way-back-when in LA. He's a damn fine blues guitarist and a very nice guy. Back to topic, slightly: Didn't Hendrix fire his white back-up band at one point and hire a black back-up band?
Yes - BUT - I think Eminem is a special case, due to his associations with Dre, which gave him tons of credibility from the start, and because he really looks like he's come up off the street. From this one picture I see...this guitarist looks like your basic white backing guitarist - you can't tell he's 'street'. Now I think that's cool and even a little uplifting for music as a whole, to have guys who look a little like me (I mean plain old white guy) showing they've got the chops to play that kind of music (and vice versa) - it isn't very typically seen.
I'll guarantee that it wasnt "black radio executives" that advised him this, but employees of Atlantic Records laying some blame off on radio people for the TERRIBLE job they did of selling David to the U.S. public last time around. His debut was a terrific album that should have sold boatloads here, but Atlantic didn't know whether to sell him as the next Maxwell, male Sade, Usher, Lenny Kravitz, or Luther....rather than exploit the fact that he's talented and fairly unique. Labels are so caught up in the bad habit of copying each other's best sellers, that they've forgotten how to break new and unique acts.
Yeah but Craig David isnt even "street" or close to it. So having a white guy there, no matter how "white" really doesn't damage anything. It's not like hardcore street corner bruthas were gunna go out and buy Craig Davis CD's anyway. It's really a stupid stereotype these recod execs have and on top of that they dont know where to go or who is in the market for these things. Like Footix, said they are all just copying each others marketing scheme and fitting artist into those molds.
Your point being what? That black people are unimportant because we're not a majority in the US, and only the majority IS important? I think it's pretty rotten that he's being advised to drop a white guitar player in order to appeal to black audiences in the U.S., but the "blacks are only 20%" comment smacks of a similar mentality of "F**** their sensibilities, emotions, feelings" because they're not really important, being only 20% and all. Not to be touchy feely, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to talk about a white guy getting shafted but then arguing that it's ok to do it to black people because of our "insignificant numbers."
Did you not read what I quoted? The argument was that they are reaching a "wider" audiance. Well if you're going to be promoting to blacks, thats not really the case is it? Jucked on Foneeks werk fur me!
A more appropriate question given the context of this thread is "How many records has Eminem sold to blacks in the US to date?" This is effin' ridiculous. Could you imagine the reverse? Say Sevendust is going overseas to a predominantly "white" country. Would they get told to leave Lajon (their black singer) home?
Clever. Of course, there's no way I could understand that if I couldn't have understood your original post. What I took issue with was your dismissal of the African-American as insignificant, not with your point about a wider (i.e., beyond African-American) audience. I got that point, but I think the executive who called for the white guitarist to be removed was arguing (and I said, if you read my post, that I didn't agree with this position) that black people -- who do make up a significant part of Craig David's audience in the US whether we're 5% or 50% of the population -- would not respond well to a white guitarist. They would however, in his opinion, respond well to an "all-black" band, and while I don't agree with this exec's analysis, my point was that your statement about "blacks are only 20% of the population" seemed to hint that black people's opinions are not relevant and should be discounted because they're only 20%, especially since the exec stated that his aim was to increase David's appeal with that 20% of the population. Part of the problem is David's people they contradicted themselves -- they said they wanted to reach a wider audience, but also wanted to increase their appeal among mainly black audiences, and I agree that they stupidly said "hey, let's get rid of the white guy" in an attempt to appease black audiences, something which I don't think will necessarily work. So, I think your wrath and your attacks on people's ability to comprehend the written word are better directed at whoever was quoted in that article advocating this strategy than at me. I think their confused strategy is at fault here, not my analysis of your original post.
I'm just glad that in the first line of the article that "reverse racism" was put in quotes...seeing as there is no such thing. Just like there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination." The word "reverse" is pointless as both things are reprehensible no matter the color of the person perpetrating them.
Valid point. This would bring down hell-fire and brimstone from the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and I sure they would ask for the executive's head who would have suggested something like this. Racism is an ugly thing and doesn't apply to just one race. When will people figure out that it doesn't ****ing matter what color your skin is?
Exactly.White folks buy more "urban" music than black folks,so whats the prob?BTW I love that term,reminds me of the Simpsons quote from Carl--"Im the urban Lenny". May be grasping at straws,but is this maybe as much a move to hide David's Britishness as it is an attempt to give him cred?Other than Soul II Soul and Sade and one or two others,black English soul acts dont do so well over here it seems.A white devil on bass just raises eyebrows and questions.
No its still directed at your stupidity. Because if you wouldve have posted what you just did you wouldve had a point(and do). And you and I both said the samething. Maybe YOUR mistake was quoting me and assuming I was saying something when I wasnt. Like the fact that Blacks dont count, which I never said.
Not to get off topic, but this sounds like it would be fantastic. Good to hear that Craig David stuck with his man. All my thoughts are put eloquently in Michael's second post.
This probably way off topic but... IMNSHO Craig David sucks. He's a cheep Usher knock off. He's more pop than R&B anyway. Isn't he marketed in Europe as R&B? Have any of you ever heard his music on R&B stations in your towns? I haven't. Not that this has anything remotly to do with the discussion. But I just find it odd that Q calls him R&B just because he's black. He is as R&B as Justin Timberlake. thats just my .2 cents.
I'm not into his stuff at all, but his new song is very different to the garage type stuff from his first album. His new song sounds like an attempt to be 'American' and crack the market over there. I think his first album was seen as a combination of Garage/R&B.