he has 6 goals. i wonder how do you sleep at night knowing you are doing everything in your power to make ronaldo look superior.
Its a pattern At the QF stage Ronaldo has blinkers He doesn't see the opponent He has been decisive in every QF the since 2007 The selling point of Ronaldo is not that he churns out 10 out of 10 all round performances vs big teams all the time some times he does Some times he doesn't But he almost always scores Theres the guarantee Or the closest thing to a guarantee That's his selling point An end product machine he just churns them out Doesn't matter if his team is winning 5-0 vs Bayern Munich 2014 Or losing 4-1 to Dortmund 2013 Losing in a copa del Rey final 2-1 vs Atletico madrid 2013 Winning a fa cup 4-0 vs millwall More times than not More than anyone I ever saw c.Ronaldo is the guarantor of victory
Important goal yeah. Weak opponent. But we were also down a man. And we weren't really a loaded team. Pretty sure we could have still won without Bebeto. So I give him credit, but wouldn't say we wouldn't have still won without him.
The aggregate was 8 x 2 man ... you're drunk on that one. Average teams do make it to QFs. End of discussion.
To the contrary Messi is better than Ronaldo Why In a league context Messi Is 8× league MVP Ronaldo is only 4× league MVP League career accounts for 60 %of a players career=a Huge chunk Ronaldo hasn't established that kind of superiority over Messi in the CL But he is better in the CL Categorically Deal with it
Excuse 1 Excuse 2 This is what i wanted to see You fell for the bait Rai by himself was a bigger legend than that whole USA squad combined who were just pretenders 1 man down LOL Remove brad friedel from that team who was just "good" Not very good or great and that team is unknown Completely unknown
Those are FACTS. Not excuses. You're being extremely disingenuous. You just hear what you want to hear at this point. And you ignored the fact that I said we would have still won.
Seriously ... you're giving that much credit for Ronaldo for scoring 3 out of 8 goals vs APOEL ? And that's after they were up 3 x 0 on the first leg which he didn't score any. C'mon now. I am not saying you're overall point about Ronaldo is wrong, but that's just a silly argument to make.
The problem Celito with all these Ronaldo vs whoever threads is it seems to be an ingrained myth that if he his name isn't on the scoresheet If i can't find his assist on transfermarket Then he clearly wasn't the reason his team won as comfortably as they did Reason why: the propaganda is strong The mechanical c.Ronaldo He's a goalscorer ( which isnt by itself a a derogatory term But it is used with negative intentions The goalscorer (He implication being if he's isn't scoring goals he isn't doing much else) This had never been true Not ever Not even at one stage in his career Not even at his worst It doesn't register but i told you Ronaldo created the 2nd goal vs apoel Even if his name doesn't appear on opta/transfermarket 8:40 Totti made an identical pre assist vs France in Euro 2000 And he gets the genius label attached to him Also look at the chance he created at 3:20 That is "wing wizardry" if your name happens to be Luis figo Don't misrepresent my point now Ronaldo is not great soley because he did this against Apoel Its A pattern/continuation Thats What he does/what he's been doing Ronaldo scored the 4th and 5th vs Bayern Munich 2014? Why is that a negative Its not statpadding for reasons explained IMO And even if it was Is that all he did ? I told you he had a big role in the 1-0 goal with a through ball pre assist This will just be ignored Btw A reason I did not mention previously as to why Messi is greater than Ronaldo C.Ronaldo had a really great all round Really great in the first third or so of his peak But when he started hitting historic numbers that waned Messi never had to sacrifice his all round to become the player he is I noticed feeling the same thing about ibrahimovic recently For a" slow" lanky player ibrahimovic was a phenomenal dribbler for inter And juventus Phenomenal with a capital P I never seen a player of his build dribble with the ball as well as him When Ibrahimovic started recording historic league numbers That disappeared He became reliant on service I looked up on his opta stats the other day In the 2011/12 season ibra averaged 46 passes per match for AC Milan That is is not a forward That is a playmaker or as Tropiero would call it "Creative attacker" who scored 28 league goals In any case let's bring it back because i enjoy my tangents too much You cannot analyse a player like sexy beast That is called browsing transfermarket An exercise that is done for fun or out of laziness Not an analysis (he made me laugh) OMG Ronaldos KO record by itself is impressive A record that anyone with even a mild appreciation for the game can acknowledge Thats his record I and others who are loosely acquainted with CRs career know that "the record" is part of the picture Ronaldo is the end product machine If i broke down just how many decisive actions Ronaldo had in the CL outside of transfermarket assists you wouldn't believe me If Ronaldo was indeed" a goalscorer" In the way the media seeks to portray it He would not be a serious contender in top 10 all time discussions He would not be Another thing No one expert ever spoke a bad word against Cristiano unless he had a vested interest in doing so Cruyff never spoke bad about Cristiano till he joined real Madrid Never The ones who did are corrupted (platini ) Or ones who have made serious errors of judgement recently (van basten) And others could be high on coke or not https://www.goal.com/en/news/argent...i-cristiano-ronaldo/n6dxg8bnh9e318pwybs0fptpv No one knows But the majority have always talked about ronaldo The amazing player who is great goalscorer You find that he became this polarizing player when he was pitted directly against Lionel Messi And every attribute,technical quality,stat was directly compared to eachother The purists are the" drunkards " Not me In an an era without Messi Ronaldo would be what Schumacher is to F1 Some purists might object and opt for senna or Fangio but no one could ever deny his record It shuts people up Disingenuous people are ones who ask for facts You give them facts they talk about context(leather balls,sports science,goal averages etc) You give them context they talk about personality Life's too short going to these measures when you can easily say "I don't like Cristiano and nothing he will do could convince me otherwise" It saves time
I think up until 16/17 Messi and Ronaldo were pretty much on par with CL KO goals. Or close to it. Ronaldo really took off and became CL KO round God when he was moved away a bit from being an all around player. You call that a sacrifice, when in fact it only benefited his legacy. Plus he had already started his decline as that all around player. It was fortuitous for him that Zidane made that switch. Ronaldo brought it upon himself with his personality. It started with the diving, then the wink incident before his breakout season. His ego is off the roof and he was whined his way to a Balon d'Or. He made it easy for media to pick on him. But over the last half decade the media view of him has softened.
in what categories? Messi is obviously better performer in finals. With last years semi finals, Messi has probably overtaken Ronaldos relative impact in semis. Messi also has more goals in R16 so that is probably a non starter So only "category" left is quarter finals, and sure, probably Ronaldo overall has had more impressive performances, but Messi is quite underrated in that segment as well. Lost twice to 2014 and 2016 Atleti, you know the peak years of Atletico, the one Ronaldo did nothing against in finals in 120 minutes. How many goals Ronaldo scored against Atleti from 2014-16? I reckon much less than post 2016 or pre 2014 (funny enough, I think you are the one who pointed out that Atletico was regularly conceding goals post 2016) Barcelona also has had some debacles in quarter finals that you can't blame on Messi. It might as well be that Messi's R16 and Ronaldo's quarter finals evens out. Milan 2013, Manchester City 2015 x2, Arsenal 2011, Chelsea 2018,....... I don't know, but you are holding this idea that Ronaldo is clearly better performer in champions league based on quarter finals alone. I am not claiming anything except that Ronaldo being a vastly superior UCL performer is a huge myth. He might be better, but it is not obvious. Ronaldo has had his share of failures and embarrassment that is mostly covered by Real's success. AND PLUS; WTF is with this notion that group stages don't matter. But seriously. UCL starts with group stages, and the job needs to get done. Barcelona has had some difficult groups in past years where pressure was on big time. I get the idea of stat padding against Malmo or Apoel, ignore those, but having Inter, Tottenham, PSV (4th seed) in the same group is no joke or Inter, Dortmund and Slavia Prague. Group stages are a valid category that matters and that brings its own type of challenges and pressure.
Don't let the peer pressure steer you into stating falsities. If what you said was true then Maradona would not have much of a claim to the title of GOAT, now would he? His legacy is predicated on a handful of games in a competition that isn't even the most difficult in the sport's history. Because the competition that is the most difficult is the modern Champions League. A competition that, unlike the World Cup, is not limited to any restrictions of players being able to play for a given team. If you are one of the world's best players, you will be in the Champions League because the clubs that compete for it will have the means of acquiring any player they deem valuable, from any part of the globe. The World Cup is a competition for the world's best national teams to compete whereas the Champions League is the only competition in the sport's history that is a stage for the world's best players to compete. There is a distinction between the two and that difference is significant. Lionel Messi having a superior performance in a league where it would be impossible for him to be more comfortable in, by mere virtue of his having been in the same country since he was literally a child, is not in any way indicative of him being a superior player. Much less when that same league is significantly less difficult to win than the Champions League. If Messi had Cristiano Ronaldo's numbers in the Champions Leauge, this debate would have been deemed ended long ago. There is a double standard at play when many evaluate the two and it would be hilarious if the intellectual dishonesty wasn't so sad. To reiterate:
wow he must be goat I had a quick look and if i am not mistaken Ronaldo had 6 goals against 2014-16 Atletico in 16 games or so. One of the goals being the pointless pk in 2014 ucl final. Yeah, solid stuff. if Messi had those numbers playing for KO phase Barcelona with his general impact on the field as a playmaker he would be so far ahead of anyone else that it would be senseless to discuss anything. But reality is that he is just individually better than anyone in history, leadership and questionable motivation aside.
Correct. Except that isn't reality. The reality instead is that Ronaldo dominates the competition convincingly and he never needed GOAT-level teammates like Messi has. Another luxury Ronaldo was never afforded. He's had high quality teammates of course, but he has not had the luxury of having teammates who were, at their time of playing, competing with him as the best players in the world. Messi had this in the form of Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldinho, Neymar etc. And when he hasn't had that luxury, a luxury arguably no other player in history has had to such an extent, he hasn't been able to win ANY titles that really matter. Unlike Ronaldo, who has a legacy in the Champions League that will likely never be surpassed and who also captained his country to their first ever title. CONMEBOL couldn't make it easier for Messi and have staged a Copa America seemingly every year, degrading the value of winning that title further and further but it doesn't matter because Messi still can't take Argentina to the title. What does he do instead? Impulsively retires and then retracts it because the going got too tough for him. As for your last sentence, I may actually agree with you. And while he may be individually the best, it's a team sport. And its clear that he needs a tailored, cushy environment to succeed. Not a surprise. It's all he's known for 20+ years. Throw Ronaldo on a pitch anywhere across the globe, in any team, in any time period across history, and he'll dominate. That's a given. And you can't really say the same for Messi.
That’s a stupid statement. Both can play in any system or team if they wanted to lol. Messi is literally carrying the current awful Barca team and also won 2 consecutive league titles after Neymar’s departure when Real was the dominant powerhouse it was while having a knobhead manager like Valverde. Ronaldo’s accomplishment with Real turned up after his prime during the Zidane era team when players like Modric-Kroos-Casemiro was and still is the backbone of Real. Also, Ronaldo wasn’t vital in 2013-14, 2015-16 and 2017-18 CL finals too and Bale pretty much played an important role scoring winning goals during 13-14 and 17-18 finals. Plus, Real won the league title this season without him which pretty much says everything. Same thing cannot be said about Barca considering they’ve lost more games without Messi. If Messi had Xavi and Iniesta during his peak, then Ronaldo had Kroos and Modric during his more successful years with Madrid. GOAT tier players are playable in any team, otherwise they wouldn’t be held in such high regard. You should also consider Messi’s role in the Barca team in comparison to what Ronaldo did at Real and now currently at Juve. Ronaldo is literally not scoring like he used to at Juve due to their average midfielders in comparison to what he had with Real. Messi is the playmaker and scorer of the current average team, literally scoring 25 goals and having 21 assists in La Liga this season.
Also @carlito86, I’ve seen such comments regarding Ronaldo being only a goal scorer on Reddit and Facebook football forums. It’s pretty obvious football started for them since 2016 considering Ronaldo at his peak was a complete attacker. I think “pure goalscoring” is like a negative word in the modern football era. I’ve seen people who do not rate Haaland that highly and he reminds of goalscoring version of Ronaldo with that off the ball movement and athleticism. I rate him pretty high though considering he also drops deep to link plays which would get better as he grows older.
Ronaldo has had plenty of great teammates to do what he did. Modric, Ramos, Marcelo are near GOAT type players. And they showed up when Ronaldo needed them to ... Ramos, Bale, Marcelo, Benzema. FFS where do you see a CB who scored 2 crucial goals in a big SF and 2 crucial goals in CL Finals ? Messi has been winning La Liga with a not so great midfield for years now. And if it wasn't for a defensive collapse, he'd have won the CL last year where he was clutch throughout the competition including all KO rounds.
Modric and Kroos are pretty much the best midfield duo I’ve seen after Xavi and Iniesta. That says it all, so Ronaldo in his best years with Madrid like I’ve stated in my previous comment, pretty much was blessed with a brilliant squad close to Pep’s Barca.
As stated, Ronaldo played with world-class teammates, that much is clear. But if you want to list out those players and then compare them to the list I did... you're dreaming if you believe they're on the same level. Xavi and Iniesta are both arguably the best Spanish players of all time. Constantly competitive against peak Messi and Ronaldo in acclaiming individual honors. Ronaldinho... take a look at the title of the thread you're in. Neymar, has been considered the 3rd best player in the world for years now. Not even close. Modric is undoubtedly the most undeserving Ballon winner of all time and isn't even the best of the players you mentioned. That would be Ramos and even he doesn't touch the above players in talent (had originally written legacy here but meant legacy of talent - not achievement). The rest of the names you listed are LOLworthy. Great players in their own right that don't hold a candle to the Barcelona players listed above.
First off, almost all of what Messi has accomplished has been post Ronaldinho. So I am not even sure why you keep mentioning him. Messi was a teen with R10 in his prime and we Messi started breaking out R10 was over the hill because of his partying. Just as Messi got a CL with Neymar and Suarez, he also got a CL title with Pedro and Villa as partners up front. Not GOAT materials by any means. You underrate Modric. He is not far off Xavi. Specially for what Madrid needed out of him. Again, what CB have you ever seen score those important goals in SFs and Finals ? Take that away and Madrid win 2 fewer CLs. 1 less for sure.
since Ronaldo turned 21. His team played in 22 semi finals in which 15 goals were scored by his teammates with ZERO contribution from Cristiano (no assist or pre-assist or any significant involvment). His teams has conceded only 24 goals. On the other hand, Messi with his incredible, the best team the world has ever seen bar none then some, has conceded 22 goals in 14 matches and only scored 4 goals without Messi's contribution. Pedro 2010 vs Inter away, Pedro 2011 vs Real home, Busquets 2012 vs Chelsea home and Suarez 2019 vs Liverpool home. That is all help he was given in his semi finals career. On top of all of that Messi's non penalty goals per game rate in semi finals is up there with Ronaldo's so even the basic statistic doesn't suggest he was more impressive "goalscorer". Yeah, in theory your little speach makes sense (i don't know why youve mentioned Ronaldinho, lol. You do try hard to discredit Messi), but the truth is literally the opposite. Semi finals and finals of ucl, the greatest stage in football, right? Messi is better and more frequent performer with statistically worse team. That's what pure numbers suggest. (And we all know what happens when we go past statistics in Messi vs Ronaldo comparison) You can keep repeating absolute numbers of goals without any context, but that is the truth. Ronaldo was given 2016 and 2018 ucls by his team. He was given Euro 2016 as well. Unlike anything was given to Messi in his career. It is embarrassing how Ronaldo performed against Bayern 2018, Liverpool 2018 and many more. He usually has one or two good moments, gets carried the rest of the way and then gets all the credit. "if it wasn't for this one goal they wouldn't get past this so the whole tournament is credited to Ronaldo." Yeah, portugal definitely won Euro because of Ronaldo's one goal vs Wales. Imagine how unimpactful you have to be that, as your teams talisman and the most markatable player, you don't win the player of the tournament award. Hahaha such a slap in the face. "The big game player" Messi does get carried, but nowhere near as much as Ronaldo. Messi had luck getting to that WC final, true, or getting past PSG in 2017, in the first leg Roma 2018, etc. But that is soo rare. How the ******** Messi managed to lead his team to almost final of ucl last season and winning two leagues since Neymar left is beyond me. That is truly incredible stuff.