Courts intervene in Serie B relegation battle (the Catania case and its aftershocks)

Discussion in 'Italy' started by SueB, Jun 5, 2003.

  1. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Courts intervene in Serie B relegation battle

    Bizarre stuff

    http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun5j.html

    Catania vs Siena finished 1-1.

    Catania claimed Siena used an ineligible player and were awarded a 2-0 victory. Not sure why but the FIGC Federal Court reverted the scoreline to 1-1. Catania appealed, and a Sicilian court has reverted the result to 2-0. But the Federation will likely appeal again.

    Try figuring out all the scenarios for THIS mess. Here is the table (with one of these teams being relegated):

    Messina 45
    Verona 45
    Napoli 44
    Catania 43 ?? (or 41)
    Venezia 42

    Messina and Verona HAD thought they were safe, but no longer. I think the only way this will be sorted out anytime soon is if Catania loses (they play at Cagliari) and Venezia wins vs Sampdoria. Then there will be no doubt.
     
  2. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amusing end to the season - as always.
     
  3. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    This is still being contested. The final standings are:

    Messina 46
    Napoli 45
    Venezia 45
    Catania 44

    Catania is still claiming they deserve two more points after tying with Siena when they used an ineligible players. If Catania is given two points, then Napoli and Venezia would be tied for the last relegation spot. At this point, it's nearly impossible to set up a play-off, so several schemes are being discussed if Catania wins their case ...

    - Catania, Venezia and Napoli all remaining in Serie B leaving 21 teams in Serie B

    - Genoa ALSO staying up, leaving 22 teams in Serie B

    - no teams relegated at all, leaving 24 teams in a 2-division Serie B (they are already planning to go to 2 divisions the following season)

    - no teams relegated but only Como and Torino come down from A, leaving 22 teams in Serie B and 20 in Serie A. Atalanta and Piacenza would stay in A.

    What fun ....
     
  4. phillips10

    phillips10 New Member

    Oct 15, 2001
    Cranford
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    this is all crazy, but this option might be the best...goto North and South divisions...

    It's strange that the Catania case has been overturned a few times already...
     
  5. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Yeah, I wish I knew all the reasons behind the case and why it's gone back-and-forth like this. If an ineligible player was used, that would seem pretty open and shut. But there has to be more to it than that.
     
  6. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Doing research to see if there are any English reports on this .... my Italian just isn't good enough to follow this convoluted situation. Found this at the Napoli site:

    "The Serie B season has ended, but the relegation results could change pending Catanias appeal.
    According to the FIGC, the Italian Football Federation, Catania are relegated into Serie C1 on 44 points.
    However, an appeal by the Sicilian club has been accepted by a civil tribunal, effectively handing them an extra two points. If the FIGC recognises this ruling, then Catania would be safe with 46 points, forcing Napoli and Venezia into a play-off to see which of the two sides goes down.
    The issue could take some time to resolve and the CONI, Italian Olympic Committe e, will play a pivotal role. The row concerns a match that ended 1-1 between Catania and Siena, as the Sicilians demanded a 2-0 victory on the grounds that Siena fielded an ineligible player. The case has been through four different appeal courts already, overturning the previous decision each time. There are even reports that the legal ramifications of the case could force Serie B to block all relegations for this season, therefore playing with 24 teams rather than 20 next year"

    There are numerous recent articles in Italian about the "caso Catania" but even those are more about the possible outcomes, how many times its been under appeal, which judges are going to be assigned, etc etc and no real details.
     
  7. phillips10

    phillips10 New Member

    Oct 15, 2001
    Cranford
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun13j.html

    The Italian Olympic Committee is involved as a mediator...apparently Catania's mistake was that they:

    "disobeyed the rules by applying to a civil appeal court without permission from the FIGC"

    Sounds like they will not be given the 2 points and fall to Serie C..
     
  8. Beakmon FC

    Beakmon FC Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Jan 10, 2002
    The OC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Classic Italian Football!!!

    by the way, how did that lawsuit against the referee at the World Cup turn out?
     
  9. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Didn't you hear? Italy was awarded the World Cup?! :D I do think Italians feel somewhat vindicated after Moreno was exposed as a horrendous ref even in his own league and has since quit as a referee.

    Back to this case - ok, so Catania did a no-no and went the courts - but I read FIGC had already changed their minds on the case. First they gave Catania the two points, then they reversed it. THAT's when Catania went to the courts. So why the reversal in the first place?
     
  10. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Got this from a Samp mailing list

    I think Italian soccer is rapidly loosing the little credibility it has left with the Catania bungle related to the relegation from Serie B to C1. www.kataweb.it shows 5 possible outcomes and gives percentage to each of them. The most astonishing fact is that the Italian soccer federation cannot get their appeal heard until 16 Oct 2003 against the sentence that gives Catania a win against Siena, instead of the 1-1 draw from the field. Here are the scenarios:

    1) Catania gets 2 points as awarded by the tribunal, but loosed 3 as a result of Grieco being fielded while under suspension against Venezia. (20%)

    2) Soccer federation accepts ruling of tribunal and Venezia and Napoli must have a play-out match (0%)

    3) Catania remains in Serie B and next year 21 clubs will play the championship.

    4) Catania and UB (don't know why them too!!... maybe to make numbers even) remain in Serie B and 22 will play next season (30%).

    5) No team will be relegated and the championship will have 24 teams (40%).

    Presidents of clubs prefer solution (5). I, who counts for nothing, prefer solution 1 since it even things out.

    The same article mentions that when Garrone took over Samp, the balance sheet was in the red and still is. Nevertheless Samp was allowed to trade players freely. Samp was bankrupt, as Lazio and Napoli are now. So all should end up like Fiorentina. I thought Garrone has cleared all the past debts.
     
  11. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    There is supposed to be a ruling on this today. I found a timeline of the whole affair. I think I understand the deal now.

    Siena's Luigi Martinelli received a booking against Cosenza on March 30, and subsequently received a one-game suspension (Martinelli is no stranger to the judiciary committee, apparently). He served the suspension in Siena's game against Napoli the following week. However, he DID participate in Siena's primavera team's game against Ternana that week. So Catania protested that he had yet to serve his week's suspension when Siena and Catania met the following week and was therefore an ineligible player. The league turned down this protest, after which Catania went to the courts.
     
  12. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The latest ruling has Catania back in B as the league's appeal that the courts had no jurisdiction was overturned.

    http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun17h.html

    There is still one more step before this becomes official, but it seems to be just a formality.

    I tried to read the league's ruling on why they turned down Catania's original protest. The wording of the league's regulations is imprecise in that it doesn't make clear whether a player can or cannot play for a different squad in the same club (eg the primavera squad) while under suspension. The league interpreted that the "intent" of the rule was that a player could not play for the same SQUAD, but could play for another squad under the same CLUB. Apparently, the courts disagree with the league's intepretation.
     
  13. phillips10

    phillips10 New Member

    Oct 15, 2001
    Cranford
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    so the saga continues....the powers-that-be here really dropped the ball not having this resolved sooner. So they could have had venezia and napoli play off for relegation...

    I think the ruling is BS. I'm pretty sure in other leagues you can play for the youth/reserve team while serving a suspension with the senior squad...
     
  14. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ahh, tha Gaucci's disgrace Italian football yet again.

    Catania should take the drop to C1 and deal with the fact that they weren't good enough to stay in B. Going to court over the matter is a disgrace.
     
  15. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    And I wouldn't shed a tear for them. This is the same team whose fans somehow managed to get into the locker room earlier this season and push Luis Oliveira around after one game. Only their best player, probably. sheesh.
     
  16. phillips10

    phillips10 New Member

    Oct 15, 2001
    Cranford
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Has their been a "final" say on this?...I've seen some web site list Catania in C1 for next yr...
     
  17. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    I don't think anything is final yet, but I believe the league has stated that the only change, should the rulings go Catania's way, would be a 21-team Serie B next season. No other teams would be given a free pass just to even things up.
     
  18. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The courts are set to announce their decision on this on Thursday.
     
  19. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wouldn't 21 teams but a rough monkey to bear on the schedule?

    Catania will have to rely on the Gaucci lunacy to stay up.
     
  20. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The courts have rejected the league's appeal of their original ruling (which was for the club), so it's looking more and more like there will be 21 teams in Serie B next season.

    It will be pretty harsh on the teams to play a 40-game season, and it'll mean 42 dates vs 38. But each team will obviously get a couple of byes, so perhaps they will eliminate the occasional "seste" (weeks off) and have a few midweek slates to squeeze it all into the same timeframe.
     
  21. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Serie B is going to be a mess.

    I love the Italians, but after my trip to Perugia I'm pretty sure they don't know how to organize much. (oh I'm part Italian as well). The Serie B season is going to be a giant problem.
     
  22. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
  23. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    CONI (Italy's Olympic Committee) has now sided with Catania on this matter. God knows what their jurisdiction is in the case - I think they may have been acting as some sort of arbitrating body - but indications are strong that this means Catania will play in Serie B next season.

    The league is expected to make an announcement after an "emergency meeting" on Wednesday.

    http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul1i.html
     
  24. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Italian teletext reports that the league has finally conceded that Catania will be in Serie B next season. However, there has still been no firm decision on the look of the league. At least one of the principles, vice president Antonio Matarrese, has said they still want 20 teams in the league, and the tie between Napoli and Venezia will be broken. Somehow.

    As my husband mused this morning, I just wonder how many close calls will go Catania's way next season ....
     
  25. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am sure Catania will be screwed into Serie C, but at the same time Gaucci will be willing to mess with them.
     

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