What did you guys think of Counce's statements about a new stadium "not being on the backburner but not a priority either" and that it is at least 5 or more years away? To me that is just what Rapids fans DO NOT want to hear. I don't want to hear the GM of my team saying that getting a new stadium isn't even in the planning stages and won't be for a number of years. I want him to say things like "we're working to find sites" and "that it is a big priority to get a new stadium for every MLS franchise" and "that the way forward is to get out of non-profitable leases and start getting teams to make money." Even if it is just lip service, it's better than hearing that it isn't even on the radar.
Soccer Stadium What do I think of Counce's statement? It was very disappointing and yet so predictable from him. Sitting on a fence post and watching the world go by...
As I understand it the Rapids have the best lease of the 6 teams in MLS not in their own stadium (Clb, LA) or in a stadium controlled by their I/O (KC, NE). The reports say that the Rapids are pretty close to making money with this lease, if they aren't already. Given that, I think a higher priority for AEG are their teams that aren't making money like DC, NY, Chi, and SJ. So the idea that Colorado is low on the list doesn't bother me.
Counce That's all fine and dandy but I have to agree with Joeyclams.Counces reply should have been more like he mentioned in his thread.That wouldv'e made this Rapid fan alot happier than his blah ,blah ,blah ,response.Not many of us [unlike you] know all the behind the scenes profit margines and lease agreements.Thanks for the insight it makes me feel alittle less bothered.
Here's the link for those who haven't read the article. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/rapids/article/0,1299,DRMN_51_2018765,00.html
Re: Re: Counce and a new stadium You might well be right but do the Broncos/Bowlen deserve ANY money from the Rapids? Just cause the Rapids might be making money at Invesco does not mean that it is a good idea to be in a lease at all. Just think of all the money the Rapids could be making, and in turn AEG and St. Phil, if they could get a 27,000 seat stadium sold out every once in a while. If I'm Phil, I want the Rapids to be first in line if I can get 20,000+ out to see a sub-standard team. There has to be an advantage to having that kind of turn out in an SSS over a 60 -40 lease with the Broncos.
I agree, except I think the last line from the Rocky Mountain News Article is important to note and consider: The Rapids have a blockbuster game every year on the 4th of July because of the fireworks show. Can one argue that the Rapids will draw more to a soccer specific stadium? Maybe, maybe not (I know that for some people - probably not a very large number, but for some - there is also a novelty for being able to go to Invesco to see something, since Broncos tickets are tough to get). But I can be sure of one thing: If the Rapids move to a new 25,000 soccer specific stadium, they will never sell 60,000 plus for the 4th of July. We are talking about 40,000 sold over our last year's average for just one game. Thats a lot of tickets to lose out on for what might otherwise be a marginal increase in per-game ticket sales in a new stadium.
Re: Re: Counce and a new stadium Who says you can't play the 4th of July game at Invesco? You think Bowlen would turn down the chance of getting partial money from 60k+ for one date? I'm betting that he wouldn't. Look, players and fans alike want to have a stadium of their own. The feeling must have been terrific for the Crew and Galaxy when they opened their new digs. And, they can count on a definite home field advantage because they don't have to work around assine schedules to get on the field more often than the Thursday before home games. But, I bet players and fans alike would still flock to the 4th of July game because of the atmosphere, and to be honest, the Elitches tickets and fireworks. Looks win win to me. Oh, and the point of my post was not that the Rapids should be building one right now. I just don't want to hear the GM saying that it isn't really a priority. I'd rather him play lip service to the fact they are working hard to get one, blah, blah blah. That would make me feel better.
Re: Re: Re: Counce and a new stadium I'd rather get the straight story. Look at how frustrated Metros fans are with the constant "announcement in 60 to 90 days" refrain they've been getting from their management.
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. Given that the Rapids have a great deal at Invesco, there is no need to be pressing for a SSS like they need in Chicago, Dallas, DC, etc. And since it appears that the Rapids are on the backburner for AEG, staying the course is probably the best option. Also, where would they put the new stadium? I don't remember where exactly which areas they were discussing before...
The other thing to look at is location. In case nobody has noticed, real estate in downtown denver is ridiculous, and I am not pragmatic enough to believe that we would draw the crowds we do now in the suburbs. Having worked for the Rapids I know that a downtown location for the stadium is absolutely necessary, and Uncle Phil knows it. He is a business man and is in business to make money. If he can make money at Invesco while he builds stadiums in markets where a move to the burbs is less of a risk, then we are going to be last in line.
I understand but... I understand why a new stadium in Denver is not a huge priority. I know that Giant's Stadium reams the league with their lease but still, anybody who knows the Denver market will tell you that a well-designed SSS willbe a huge success in lower downtown. Denver always supports its teams pretty well and it would turn into a big family event for summer evenings. And Phil (yes, that Phil) owns the land already in the area. But I'd guess it's still about 5 years off.
I think everyone wants a SSS. But the question of where to put it is GIGANTIC. Cause it doesn't make sense to just build a Stadium, you need to build a whole complex. Complete with fields so that the young ones can play in the shadow of the grand field.
this tells me that counce will have nothing to do with a new stadium if (and hopefully when) it is built. he will be long gone before the first silver shovel hits dirt on any new stadium. much like the way he leads the team and players now, he has very little long-range vision for the future franchise. how much more on the fence can you be on an issue? take action, dan. make something good happen for the rapids. and if you can't, at least be man enought to admit it and tell us that we're staying at invesco for the long haul.
Responses to three issues in this thread. Need for Land / Where to put a Stadium A few years back, the Post ran a big article in the business section on Anschutz, AEG, the Rapids and the possibility of their own stadium. I believe it was around the time that the Rapids' involvement with Invesco was very much up in the air. Anyway, the article pointed out that Anschutz owns a significant amount of land all around the Platte, in particular mentioning he already owned enough fairly undeveloped land in the vicinity of Pepsi/Lodo/Invesco/Coors to fit in a stadium. I've heard from other folks over the years, including some involved with the Rapids and AEG, that this is indeed the case. While much of this land is used for industrial purposes and is littered with train tracks, it's not an overly bustling area and could certainly be developed given the right motivation -- this was the same kind of land that the Pepsi was built on. Not to mention, stadiums built over existing train tracks are not entirely unheard of. AEG's desire for stadia There are few complaints about Invesco. In fact, people generally comment on what a good facility it is, including visiting coaches and players. At the very least, it's not discouraging ticket sales. While a soccer-specific stadia would make for an increased attraction, any boost in ticket sales simply for the novelty factor would be a temporary one, arguably lasting no more than a few years. Crew Stadium is already seeing this waning interest in the stadium itself, or perhaps a more appropriate comparison would be Coors Field. As mentioned above, AEG has a fantastic loan deal with Invesco, enough so that the Rapids stand a strong likelihood of turning a profit at the facility. Contrasting this with a $60+ million investment, and it's easy to understand why AEG doesn't see a need to make Colorado a priority. Also for consideration should be the notion that such a beneficial contract likely carries with it a significant term. I would be surprised if the Rapids' deal with Invesco is anything less than 5 years. In this case, there wouldn't be any reason for AEG to imply any sort of priority for a stadium here in Denver, especially not considering that both Crew Stadium and the Depot were built in less than 16 months. Statements from AEG and the Rapids In addition to Counce's statement, there was also this morsel from Kevin Payne included in today's Rapidfire as the "quote of the day:" Note the lack of the name "Colorado." Regardless of who requires/deserves a stadium more -- you can argue each case to death, I'm sure -- i'm with JoeyClams' initial statement that these not the kind of statements I need to hear from the Rapids. In this case it was at least a supreme being from AEG making the statement, but I'm a bit irked that this was chosen as the "quote of the day" by the Rapids. What's next, a quote of the day talking about how great Clint Mathis has been for the MetroStars this year? As stated by others, the last thing we need to hear from the GM of a team is that something of great value to the fans isn't a priority -- and I'm not suggesting that he lie or stretch the truth, either. The GM of an MLS team should be smart enough to know how to make a generic statement that doesn't promise a commitment while also not generating disappointment from the fans. In other words, Counce should talk about the stadium the same way he's talked about bringing a championship to Colorado. You know, "something the fans of Colorado deserve, and something we're looking to achieve some day." Everything considered, a new stadium should really be the last priority for AEG with regards to the Rapids at this time. Fixing the team and their reputation is going to be more important for the longevity of the organization than any other goal.
Counce\Smounce?!?! I agree with Greenie. A new stadium is the last thing we need. First of all, we need to win, and before that, we need to score goals. It is a bad thing when I can remember every goal the Rapids have scored so far in the season. What Counce said really did bug me, though. He continually acts like an absentee landlord, sort of like the Douglas Bruce of Soccer. It makes me puke any time I hear him talk about giving the Colorado fans what they deserve. 32 years ago, when I first started teaching, principals in my district used to have a contest to see who could spend the least money during the year, (my budget for PE was 10$). It wasn't "most quality for the least money", It was just "least money". That reminds me a lot of Counce's management of the team, lots of lip service for improvement, but in the end, if it makes AEG happy, to heck with the fans. Let's Win A Pair This Week
Greenie, Would you agree that it does not make sense to just build a stadium. That it needs to be a complex so that it attracts youth teams from all over the state and becomes sort of the mecca for soccer in Colorado?
Can't say I'd agree that such a complex is a requirement, especially considering that so many youth clubs in the area have outstanding facilities of their own (and/or excellent city facilities). I'm not very connected to youth soccer in the state, but I do know that the toughest part would not be building the facility but dealing with all of the politics involved with making sure that an elite facility draws elite talent. There are a lot of politics involved in youth soccer, particularly in Colorado, and for many clubs one of the biggest issues is selecting what competition to play against in both tournament and league play. Would such a complex really draw these clubs and players, draw them away from fields and complexes that they've been using for a long time and have established relationships with? That's really more a question for those directly involved in youth soccer, I think others on this board would be able to offer a much better opinion. Ultimately I think the best way to inspire youth players is by putting a quality product on the field in the first place. Not to mention, any kid that dreams of playing competitive soccer has gotta be pretty damn inspired when seeing 60,000 fans at Invesco on July 4th.
I just completed a feasibility study on building a SSS for the Rapids in Denver. Part of the study was meeting with Jeff Mathews, the VP of opps. A few things came out of this meeting. 1. If a SSS is built in Denver it will be by AEG and it will most likely be after Chicago/DC get into an SSS. Why? Because... 2. The Rapids' lease in Invesco is much better then at the old Mile High. The Rapids get a cut of parking, concessions, etc. where before they didn't. The Rapids are the stadium's biggest tenant, outside of the Broncos, so they get priority on schedules, etc. AEG's focus will be to create a stadium model that generates positive cash flows in cities with bad soccer stadiums first. Denver is low on AEG's list. 3. HDC is a trial balloon. If it goes well and can generate a bigger profit then expected, the schedule will be bumped up for other AEG teams. However, the Rapids need a stadium the least out of any other AEG team. So unfortunatly Denver is not going to have a SSS anytime soon. On the positive side, maybe, Phil's son is incharge of stadium development for AEG. So there is someone working on it.
In addition, the Rapids would want a premier Denver site for the stadium, currently they do not think the Dallas soccer complex model would work for them.
Greenie, I have heard that Anschutz's land in the Platte area has already been sold off for developments like the Pepsi center, etc. If he had only know that he would one day want to build a downtown stadium....