Coulter: Dems Don't Have the Constitution for Racial Equality

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Colin Grabow, Jan 23, 2003.

  1. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    "We've had a civil war, a constitutional amendment, a Supreme Court ruling, a National Guard mobilization and a federal civil rights law to try to get the Democrats to stop with the race discrimination."

    No wonder her biggest claim to fame lately is being a Fox News pundit.
     
  2. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm very sorry that I gave that story a hit.

    First of all, she doesn't understand the Michigan system. As has been explained here previously, you don't get 20 points for being black. I said it before and I'll say it again: there's no such thing as "more qualified" and "less qualified", only qualified or not. If Michigan is allowing in unqualified minority candidates, there's a case. If not, everything beyond that is a subjective decision to try to have the "best" incoming class possible, which would include diversity of a variety of things. Any school that had, say, a campus full of Ann Coulters or Colin Grabows or obies or whoever would not be as conducive to gaining a well-rounded education than one that had real diversity, in nationality, race, class, interests and upbringing.

    Second, she seems to think that SAT scores are the sole determinant for college admissions, which they are not. Nowhere. Not one place takes the top X% of SAT scores for admissions. If the point is to find the people with the highest IQs, which it's not, most every academic would tell you that the answer is likely not to be found among SATs, which can be coached.

    Third, she ignores the sea change in party affiliation that took place in the 1950s and 1960s when trying to link Southern Democrats during the civil rights era to current Dems. Virtually all those Democrats who blocked entrances to southern schools switched to the Republican Party decades ago.

    Finally, by saying that schools can discriminate by any form other than race totally ignores the point that other disciminating factors such as legacies lead to discrimination on legally-unprotected grounds. If every legacy is white and only legacies are admitted, that's racial discrimination. If a school admitted only naturally blonde people, the school is using hair color as a proxy for race.

    By not understanding the law and how it is applied, she makes herself look ignorant. By resorting to calling Democrats "idiots" and "embiciles" instead of making enlightened arguments, she makes herself look sad and lost.
     
  3. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    C'mon obie. If you had a choice between two mechanics to fix your car, and one had 20 years experience and had won awards for his mechanical aptitude, and the other had just become a mechanic in the past 2 years and the quality of his work was unknown, wouldn't you go with the former? Mind you both are qualified mechanics, having graduated from technical school in auto repair, but wouldn't you say that the former is "more qualified"?

    If all that matters is meeting minimum qualifications shouldn't colleges just dispense with the whole admissions process and take all applications that meet the minimum GPA, SAT etc. in a big pool and hold a lottery?
     
  4. dawgpound2

    dawgpound2 Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    You got it, Big Soccer pundit!
     
  5. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What if one is cheapr than the other? What if one was closer to my home? What if one worked faster, or returned my phone calls nicely, or explained things to me clearly so that I didn't feel like I was being fleeced? What if one just made me feel more comfortable?

    And, considering that Michigan (especially the law school) is quite competitive for out-of-state candidates, the concept of "minimal qualifications" is actually pretty high bar to clear. In your analogy, it's like getting a degree in mechanical engineering instead of going to Happy Jack Mechanics' School. Come on, Colin, there's a hell of lot more to choosing among qualified candidates than test scores.
     
  6. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Let me clarify then, all other things being equal which one would you choose?
    Never said that there wasn't, but I think this notion that one student is no more qualified than another as long as they meet minimum requirements is a crock.

    Also, I'm curious about something:

    How is this not an argument against historically Black colleges?
     
  7. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I often interview people for high tech ASIC designs or verification positions within my hardware group. 75% of the time the person is "qualified" to perform the job.

    It is my job (as well as the other interviewers) to find the "most" qualified person for the job.

    Perhaps your point is about college only but if you are extending it to real life, I am not sure I understand.

    Andy
     
  8. sanariot

    sanariot Member

    Nov 19, 2001
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny you should bring this up, because I was wondering where all of the conservative outcry over "less qualified" whites gaining entrance to historically black colleges was.



     
  9. sanariot

    sanariot Member

    Nov 19, 2001
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So why don't you think a student is "more qualified" if they come from an underrepresented background, then?
     
  10. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    That's interesting, but I'm not really interested at all in whether less qualified whites are admitted to historically black colleges. Rather I'm wondering if Black colleges are performing a disservice to their students because they plainly lack diversity.
     
  11. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Because I don't view that as a qualification.
     
  12. sanariot

    sanariot Member

    Nov 19, 2001
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shouldn't you be?


    I would say so, but that's just my opinion.
     
  13. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    There is a distinction between college and workplace because they have two very different goals.

    In a business, the degree of qualification, at least in theory, would translate to productivity, which in turn leads to profit, the ultimate goal for a business.

    In college, academic qualification becomes less important as long as the student is qualified enough to do the work and remain in school.
    After the cut off point, academic qualification is not as important as what an applicant contributes beyond the classroom, whether in a leadership role, extra curricular activities, or simply adding to a diverse learning environment.

    Sure, good grades may indicate a highly motivated student and high standards look good on admissions brochures, but beyond that, it's simple one of a myriad of factors that goes into selecting students. It's not the be-all end-all of admissions.
     
  14. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Not really. If I think racial preferences are wrong, why should I be concerned about that? As a matter of fact I think it would be grossly hypocritical of me to complain about white students not benefiting from racial preferences while simultaneously calling for their demise.

    Ok.
     
  15. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Interesting, since you're intensely interested about less qualified black students being admitted into traditionally white unversities.

    You really have no idea why black colleges exist, do you?
     
  16. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Colin,

    It's dissappointing that an intelligent person like yourself should stoop to the low-level intellect of Ann Coulter on Con Law. She's a flim-flam artist, pure and simple.

    Wonder how she feels about the very pro-active and ingenious use by the Supreme Court of the very same equal protection clause in Bush v. Gore to the definite benefit of one George W. Bush.
     
  17. sanariot

    sanariot Member

    Nov 19, 2001
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's what I'm getting at. How much outcry is there over the U of M's Law School's admissions criteria in comparison to the race-based criteria now being used in some historically black colleges? If conservatives can speak out against Michigan's practices, why are they not speaking out against race-based admissions in historically black colleges that favor whites?
     
  18. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I don't really have much to add except:

    1. Ann Coulter is an idiot. She always has been, probably always will be.

    2. She couldn't resist throwing THE CIVIL WAR into her argument.
     
  19. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Well, from what I gather on these boards there is no such thing as less qualified black students being admitted.

    Anyway, if white students are being admitted to Black colleges because they are white and not due to their qualifications I find that wrong and would hope that it is ended pronto.

    I'm well aware of why black colleges exist. But I'm just curious why if racial diversity seems to be such a paramount objective, and is so critical to the success of our young people, why such colleges aren't deemed to be doing a disservice to their students?
     
  20. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Oh, I'm not a big fan of Coulter's actually, but I think she can be pretty funny. I figure if superdave can take the license to ask questions like why Republicans are so evil and why Bush supports treason that I can post the occasional Coulter piece.
     
  21. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Because I don't think that there is a perception out there that lots of -- dare I say "more qualified" -- Black applicants are losing out in their chance to go to college because less qualified white students are being admitted. But if a court case emerges where a Black student sues a school because it is admitting less qualified white students I would enthusiastically support that person.
     
  22. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    OK, just don't expect us to take it seriously.
     
  23. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Love her or hate her, her opinions are far closer to the American mainstream than are Noam Chomsky's.


    Alex
     
  24. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Yes, you've earned this valuable right. :D

    Funny?!?! Like a toothache, maybe.
     

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