This idea has been creeping up on me the last day or so. Every year so far Etcheverry's name could be written in the starting lineup in indelible marker. But this offseason we've heard and read a lot that basically Hudson was a) not really wanting Etcheverry back, as his salary could be used better getting other players and b) that Hudson views this as Etch's last season and c) upgrading the midfield around him. In the last Post article Hudson mused about having both Convey and Kovalenko in the central midfield behind Etcheverry. Now as DT and shawn among many others have pointed out, this leaves a hole at d-mid as neither Bobby or Dema really fill that role- both are better suited closer to goal. (We already saw that last year when Convey moved to the middle he tended to play in front of Etch.) So it's pretty obvious that we are still looking for a d-mid type and along with at least another forward (or else we are going to a 361 with Quarantaas the lone forward- now THAT would be awful and would be grounds for immediate castration of Ray.) Okay, now- picture this scenerio- it's May of next season and the team is overall much better than last year. We actually know how to score goals and the defense is still good. But we see that very few goals are coming through Etcheverry and in addition when he touches the ball everything slows down: the creativity lies elsewhere. It becomes obvious that our 12th or 13th men are better than Etch is. Hudson then benches Etch who will probably be upset abut it. But this is no longer Etch's team ad the team doesn't rise up in anger in support of Etch. To me this scenerio is very plausible.
I'm not sure DC can be competitive as long as Etcheverry is slowing down the offense. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets benched.
I agree. I think that we'll see Etch as a starter at the beginning of the season. That way we can say we had a commitment to Etch. As the season moves on, Etch will reduce his playing time, maybe playing the first half. (His age is catching up to him and we want him healthy through the whole season). His substitute will take his starting role a little later, playing 60 to 70 minutes. Etch comes in late in the second half to "spark some magic" of old. As Etch loses playing time he'll begin to think about his transition to becoming the Bolivian National Team's Coach.
That's a lot of $$$ to be riding the pine. Besides, maybe we should see how he does now that he's had his knee 'scoped and he's two years removed from toe surgery.
Looking at this from another angle, DCU freed about 600K in the SoS trade. About 200K went to Petke and Kovalenko, leaving 400K for three senior roster spots. The allocation forward will likely get max salary (270K) leaving 130K for the other two spots, an allocation d-mid (or trade it for one) and a backup GK (or do you want a developmental roster GK?). Can DCU get a decent d-mid for 100K? Bottom line is, DCU sure could use Etcheverry's salary to purchase a good d-mid (allocation type). Does Colorado need a replacement for Valderama? DCU can't afford to have a max salary sit on the bench or playing like crap on the field. Once again, I can't figure out why Etcheverry was signed unless it was because of the hand of AEG (ie., MLS).
If he's not going to play why did we re-sign him? He still counts as a max salary player so even if he took a pay cut it didn't really help our cap situation. If he's not going to be the man for one last season we should have cut bait and withdrawn our offer and he be allowed to go somewhere else and play. If MLS, or anyone outside of DCU management, including Kevin Payne, forced us into this and we end up wasting his salary with him being benched for most of the season we should be pissed. If Hudson didn't want him back why is he back? I have a far out theory. Hudson really wanted to get rid of Moreno and Pope and as a bonus got SoS to agree to take Williams. The only way this works is if Etcheverry re-signs. DCU does everything they can to get Etcheverry to sign so they can make this deal. Why does Hudson want to get rid of these guys? Moreno we all know but Pope is one of the best defenders in the league. I think Hudson see him as hurt too much and called up too much. He wants someone who will be there every game barring death and in Eddie he won't get that. So he cut off his nose to spite his face.
e possibile, ursula interesting and valid point but why would El Diablo re-sign to ride the pine/or to not be a starter?
I guess I'm saying, signing someone for that amount of salary he must know what his role is going to be this season. So, it's possible, and if that's the case then Etcheverry should know already that he's going to be a sub.
Perhaps starts at home mixed with some subs, or even an occassional benching on the road to keep him fresher? Given the cap, it seems hard to think of him not playing major minutes at max salary.
It was my understanding thtat dcu had some cap space from amman, etc. Shouldn't there be more than 600k?
I find it highly improbable that they would go to the effort to re-sign him and then make the blockbuster trade and then not play him.. If he is ineffective, I don't see why Hudson wouldn't make a change, but lets see how it plays out first.. Let's remember that Bobby and Marco were both key players last season in the late season surge and also lets remember it wasn't exactly Marco's fault that he had stiffs like Alavanja, Lassiter, Villegas, Curtis and Zambrano playing around him for most of the season... Get Marco some better supporting cast, then you will see the improved play.. Is it no coincidence that Marco won the All-Star game MVP at home with better players around? Then again, it was an all-star game though more defense was played this time because of the National Team playing... But still, Marco does play well when provided with adequate teamates, he has proven this time and again..
The cap space from Ammann's retirement went to raises for Rimando, Mckinley and Q1 graduating from P-40.
First about why Etchevery would resign: becasue like most aging athletes, he still believes that he has "it". Etch, as we know, has a lot of pride and that pride skewes his opinion of himself. Second, Hudson and United were not all that enthusiastic about resigning him. He's back for another year in part because the league wanted him back. Read again the comments by Hudson on the metros trade: He'd rather have Pope than Etcheverry. Still, Hudson is willing to give him the starters job at first. he knows that Etch isn't totally washed up; that Etch still has some magic in that left foot. But if that magic has deteriorated much since last season, I don't think for a minute that Hudson won't bench him in some way. Probably, as TCompton says, But what about the salary you ask? Doesn't that mean that Etch has to play? No, of course not and we've seen enough of Hudson to know better: Ray will make the move if he feels it's right. Look I'm not saying bench him now. That's silly. But there's a real good chance that his skills have deteriorated further than we've seen. Afterall, he is getting older. And what about his coming back after the knee surgery two years ago? Hey- that's not his only injury and like many older players, he's becoming more and more injury-prone, which gives rise to another plausible scenerio: that an injury like his toe injury will cause the benching since unlike the poast couple of years we don't need an Etcheverry who can't hit the ball properly. We'll see.
Here is what I think is happening. Ray played the Ech card both ends and lost ! Ray asked the league to offer Ech a big pay cut contract extention hopping he is not gonna accept it. But, if he does, Ray has got enough money to bring another Dmid. Well, unfortunately, Ech has no place to go and no value to bargain for !! So, he accepts to play for "peanuts". But, he has no gas in tank, he cannot run anymore, he is a real dead weight in the middle. Now, Ray's double dealing is gonna hunt him. Let's see what Ray got in his purse ! An oldtimer,over the hill, very unhappy "primadonna" (about the money situation), for sure a true Ray's enemy. I predict Ech will become Ray's bigest pain in the neck !! He cannot play 90 min. anymore, so, it will be a continuous struggle about "if and when" Ech will play. Now, let's see what is gonna happen if the team is going down again ! "This the pure speculation domain"!!!... What do you guys think Ech is gonna do to make sure Ray is out ?? A lot of things if he is on the field, nothing if he is benched. But, if he is benched he is not gonna be responsibile. Is that wright ??? Soo, I predict if things are gonna turn sour Ech will be on the bench, no matter what.If, the team will do well he is gonna play at the end of the game, only, if he is behaving. I, really, do not expect " the midfield upgrading around him" I refuse to believe Ray can be so dumb not to realise that Ech is finished, as a player. Those dummies from the league can be fooled but, not Ray. Somebody, on this board, said : he played great in the allstar game !! Sure he did, without any oponent on his back, no defense only a silly show. He did well than because that was not the real life,that was a soccer fiction. In real life he is a dead weight in the middle nothing more !!!.
That would be me who said that and this past All-Star game was much more competitive than past games because of the different format involved.. This wasn't the usual no defense shoot from anywhere All-Star game, it was a game against our National Team that had just completed a rather successfull World Cup campain and there was simply no way that the USA team was going to sit back and be toyed with by a bunch of MLS All-Stars... As a matter of fact, it was easily the best game to date on both ends of the field.. Obviously Etcheverry is not the player he once was but there are still times (like at the tail end of last season) where he is completely focused and helps this team win.. My main point all along with Etcheverry is that all by himself he is a great talent, or was one, but with mediocre talent around him, which he had for most of the season, he seems to suffer.. Get him better personnel, the results will come.. I believe Ray is in the process of doing this....
Not to mention he had the meniscus in his knee repaired and is two years removed from major toe surgery. Nobody seems to give him any credit for the guts he's shown playing hurt the last few seasons.
I have a different take on this than most people I think. My impression is that Ray had no involvement with the "pay cut" issue, as what he was told was that the endorsement money would be less this season, thus Ray said Etch would need to take a pay cut. Etch was a very highly marketable figure in the US in the early years. Him wearing your cleats meant kids buying your cleats. As his skills have faded, United's trophies have dried up, and new stars have taken over that marketing sphere, the sponsors do not value Etch as highly, thus they are offering less to MLS for Etch's services. As for Etch's skill level, IMHO, he still possesses the ability, but stylistically he needs to adapt his game to the rest of the team. Etch used to be so much better than the other team that he could just hold the ball and saunter around with it until he spied an opening. Then, he'd deliver a deadly pinpoint pass through a mere crack and create countless scoring opportunities. Now, Etch's skills have declined, MLS defenders have become far better on the whole, and DC United's finishers are not as skilled. Now the strength of DC United no longer rests squarely on Etch's shoulders. For our forwards to score, we need to rely on getting them chances where they do not need to face a set defense. So we need to either play the ball quickly through midfield before they get numbers behind the ball, or we need to vary our attack to create mismatches. We've gone from a true possession & buildup team, to a quick strike team. So, Etch needs to play that style to get the most out of guys like Convey, Olsen, Reyes, Santino, and most of the subs as well. When he does that, he's a great asset. IMHO, he's still not really worth a max salary slot, but he's at least arguably worth it. I don't see Etch benched at all next season, unless injury causes it. But, I can see set pieces being taken by other players. -Tron
I don't totally buy this "Marco slows the game" bit. Yes, he does hang onto the ball too long at times, but he still hits quick killer passes at times as well. Most notably in the All-Star game and when he and Convey hooked up so well towards the end of the season last year. He also sauntered thru a pretty solid US National team defense for a goal last year too. Point is, he is smart enough to know when to hit quick passes and that's never all the time. I'm sure at times he's intentionally holding the ball at times to let people get forward and give the team a breather since DC has been constantly on their heels for about 3 years now. Also, I've been wondering if Marco's role is really going to be as the guy tucked in behind the forwards in a 5 man MF. Given his possession skills and fantastic vision, could it be that Hudson is going to pull him back to play Ben Hur just in front of the defense? More like a holding MF linking the defense to Conveys and Kovalenkos of the world playing in front of him. He could be the Bishop of this reincarnation of Miami. We'd still need a MF defender in there too and that would cause some shuffling of the lineup, but I wonder if this wouldn't be a role more suited for Marco at this stage in his career. I doubt Ray had anything to do with the money side of the equation. I think that's totally between Kasper, MLS, and Marco. I'll bet all Hudson did in this scenario was decide that Marco would be more important to keep than Eddie. I'll bet he knew all along that Marco would count as a max player, pay cut or not.
That's simply not true. I give him credit for gutting through his several injuries; so have a bunch of posters here. So has Hudson. Moral victories only go so far though if you are trying too be one of the eight best teams in a ten team league. And more than being tough, as folks here have said, he still has skills. If, as DT said just above, if those skills can blend in well with the rest of the team than he starts, no question. BUT, he is no longer the straw that stirs the drink. Step back and look at the Fire board where folks are about a year or two behind where we are- they have a hard time imagining Nowak no longer being the heart of the team, although it's possible that Sarachan does (we'll see). Now look at United- before last season, Hudson, like the rest of us, said explicitly that Etch was our heart. This year, such talk is long gone and Hudson and most of us think that Etch himself will be gone by this time next year. So connect the dots: pre-2002: heart of the team end of 2002: a starter; most effective playing behind Convey pre-draft-2003: no longer the center, but still a starter although Kovalenko has been added to Convey and Etch as contenders for playing the center of midfield. 2004: retired How do we get to 2004 from here? To quote Tron: I don't at all see the above statement as incompatible with what I am saying.
This is a very good point. Etcheverry hasn't had a truly good team around him since 2000. That said, I do think what Skip has posted is certainly plausible. Not likely, but plausible. Outside of Convey, though, do we really have someone ready to take the spot? Kovalenko has shown he can't carry the team's creative load on his own with Chicago, and Quintanilla has played there precisely once (against sub-par opposition no less). The biggest thing keeping Etcheverry on the field may be a lack of a reasonable replacement.
"Lack of a reasonable replacement" Ah, truer words were never spoken! I remember Trask saying that he and Hudson kept waiting for someone to knock Rooney off the field, but it just never happened. Bobby could very well be the MF general of the future, but he better step up soon or someone else will be found instead.
Agreed on this point. Also, we were a finisher away from having a decent season last year. There were times when we should have won, but came away with a loss or tie due to abysmal finishing. Marco has lost a step, but I think we should give him this season, then cheer next year when they put him on the RFK ring of honor.
True Marco is at the end of his career, but I think he's still got a few good passes left in him. How many players in MLS can drop a 30-40 yard pass right onto somebody's foot? If you look at the way the roster is currently (and most of the speculation on these boards as far as lineup), he's got runners in Olsen, Convey, and Reyes that he can play balls to behind the defense. Q1 isn't exactly a burner, but he can be the recipient of a well timed pass as well. If we get a good target forward, we will have a real threat for defenses to worry about when Marco crosses the ball on corners and set pieces. I think part of the reason he has not been as dangerous on free kicks lately is goalies haven't had to worry about the cross as much so Marco can't catch them leaning. Now that Dema is here also, and Q1 can also drop into midfield somewhat, does Marco really have to run all over the field anymore? He can just kinda plant himself right around midfield and spray passes all around the field...
That's very true, because there are other teams in the league - even teams that have won championships - who can't seem to draw more than 10K for playoff games.