Could Cavan Sullivan be our Lamine Yamal in WC 2026?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Swami, Jul 9, 2024.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    That U17 team is so ridiculous with attacking talent that Carrizo of NYCFC doesn't even start.

    It seems like what the US is specializing in developing is wingers and attacking midfielders.

    There's crazy depth in those players. We're going to get to youth teams in several years in which ridiculous decisions are going to need to be made. Players are going to be dropped that would have been the best youth player in the pool twenty years ago.

    That U17 team (which demolished the Czech Republic) didn't even have Julian Hall, Nimfasha Berchimas, and others. Both have already made MLS debuts. What position do those guys play? Exactly.

    Cavan Sullivan is the highest profile prospect in the group due to his move to Man City. But 4 years from now? Who knows what the depth chart will look like?
     
  2. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I question whether these two age groups 08-09 are a golden generation or the new normal. I want to see what the 2010s and 2011s bring. If I had to guess the floor will be raised but the ceiling will not rise much. Time will tell with that question after 2026 WC.

    If I had to guess Cavan will not be in the 2026 WC unless there are a lot of injured players or Cavan is getting minutes with Man City. I don't see any 08-09s players getting into the 2026 WC.
     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It'll kind of ebb and flow in terms of the high end, but the US will now consistently be producing these types of prospects out of academies. What's really changed is the depth of the prospect pool.

    You know what I think? I think the best player for the US at this tournament hasn't been Cavan Sullivan. It's been Mathis Albert.

    They're booth 2009s. They're the two youngest members of this team.

    At some point we may need to ask the question "Could Mathis Albert be our Yamine Lamal at WC2026?" :) :)

    Albert's at Borussia Dortmund for a reason.

    Not that it matters. They're both dual-nationals, but both seem committed to our program. Its great to have both of them. And there are a bunch of other kids in this age group with high ceilings as well. Its just a message board debate. Is Cavan Sullivan actually our best 2009 prospect???

    [And Albert might not even be our best prospect at Dortmund. Cole Campbell is really good and is closer to a breakout with the Dortmund first team.]
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    1832116305027047805 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  5. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Time will tell if that's the new normal.

    I also don't want to say Albert has been the best player for the US in this tournament. I don't think it's fair to say that based on one game and that game was against Czech Republic.Czech Republic doesn't have the best youth development the same as Slovakia. Cavan was still the 2nd or 1st best player in those two games.

    I would love to see the US play the 2nd tier countries: Japan, Netherlands, Colombia of the world.

    Cavan is still the best 09 player but Albert and Kaedren Spivey are catching up to him. It's not that Cavan isn't developing as we hope, players are catching up to Cavan if that makes any sense.
     
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a good problem to have.
     
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  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    The key element that makes it difficult to figure out is the reality that the '04's-'06's, maybe '07's too were generally speaking wrecked by covid and that's why there was a bit of dip in quality, or if those were the normal variations you get in a nation that isn't quite as checked in on soccer as a sport as Spain or France or England or Germany etc. Are the '08's and '09's the new normal, or an up blip after down dips, like the '97's through the '03's after the misery of '90-'95.

    I am skeptical of the new normal idea, but I do think at this point, when we see that '97-'03 was so so fantastic, and post covid, the '08's and '09s are this good? Even if its not a new normal, it's a new ceiling and a new floor, not just a golden generation, but what exactly? Time will tell. The good news is that these guys are basically the decade behind the Pulisic/Adams/Wright/McKennie generations, which, if they continue to develop like this, should extend out a high ceiling and floor for the national team another decade past WC '30, if they hit. It is a new normal, but what kind of normal is open to question.
     
  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There's always some element of cycles to player development. You're inherently dealing with outliers at this level; it's not an assembly line. We had a very good run from '98-'00 and the mid-2000s seem a bit down and now we're seeing what looks to be an upswing.

    The important thing is more what the average is, and that does hopefully seem to be rising.

    Though I would say the talent seems to be very offensive, and there's a whole other part of the team.
     
  9. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I was not born back in the 90s. So I can't talk about youth soccer development in that time.
    I will assume that back in the day there were not too many academies.
     
  10. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I think the 08s and 09s (this team) are pretty special. Whether it is the new normal or not depends on how the 10s and 11s turn out and it is much too early to say one way or the other.
     
  11. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Yeah. Our development right now is very lopsided in wingers and attacking mids. But it takes longer for CBs to develop so I'm not surprised they are overshadowed at this level. Some of those wingers might end up at FB. Terry and Emenalo are a pair of very talented center mids.

    Which leaves center forward as the area we are a little light on. Adams is a good fit for this team, but I'm not sure the talent is there for a serious senior team career. I would lean towards no on that one.
     
  12. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    iconic picture

    frame it danno
     
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  13. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    It sure is. Cavan is going to be a great player. But he's gonna need some help to get the national team to a new level.
     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    One of our problems is that our starters are just better than the young guys a little behind them. The last U20 team was highly successful, but I am unsure if it will produce a USMNT starter.

    When you think about future starters and stars, it seems like it's this group of 17s.
     
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  15. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Are you talking about the current U20 that lost to Mexico or the last U20?
    The issue with the 2001-2006 squad is that there are few good wingers. Pulisic, Weah and Wright. If we lose Luca koleosho, Any 2008 or 2009 winger has a good shot at making the 2026 WC
     
  16. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Noahkai Banks and Diego Kochen are the U20s most likely to take a spot in the senior team starting lineup. Cole Campbell is probably the best of the rest, but I don't think he will end up being a senior team starting player. Maybe a valuable rotational player. He will be in competition with the likes of Weah, Paredes and Sargent.
     
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  17. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    The Cowell-Luna-McGlynn-Pax-Pukstas one. Think all of those guys get caps, but are they starters? Not sure.
     
  18. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    That age group might get a few caps but after the 2026 WC, I fully expect the 2008-2009 age group to overtake that age group. Maybe 1 or 2 players will make it. Some 2010 and 2011 players will make the 2030 WC. They will be around 20 years old
     
  19. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    The best players from that age group are Pepi and Paredes. The CB with the most upside is Neal. Wiley is another with quite a bit of upside. Often the best players don't play with their own age groups in these tournaments.
     
  20. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I think Tyler Meiser, Michael Bresser, Noahkai Banks, Anrie Chase, and Neal have a better chance at getting into the 2026 WC than Cavan. Because of what we need and the players in front of them.
     
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  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think the chances for any of them are particularly good.

    ............................but Banks actually made a first team debut for Augsburg in the Bundesliga. So he and Neal have at least some percentage of a chance.

    Meiser, Bresser, and Chase are firmly entrenched in other national team programs. If they commit to us, then I'll consider them in the discussion.

    I think the kids that are one age group from Sullivan/Albert have a better chance. The Cole Campbell age group.
     
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  22. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I think what makes things a little bit different here is that the '04's and '05's (and to some extent '06's) who basically have somewhat disappointed in comparisons to the highs of the '97's through '03's, had a shut down that last 1-2 years depending upon which part of the country they lived in starting with kids aged around 13-16 when Covid hit. I remember listening to one of the big watchers of prospects on, probably scuffed talking about how so many of the kids moved on from soccer, or really didn't get onto fields much at all in 2020, and for some, a chunk of 2021. So I definitely think it's possible that part of this whole thing could be an outside factor like covid. As you say there's going to be ups and downs automatically, it happens w/all countries, but it will be interesting if we just are really more like the '97's to '03's, and '08's and '09's, and that the '04-'06 or '07 era issues might have been a covid thing as much as anything. Time will tell.
     
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  23. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I definitely like Neal long term, if he can get back to staying healthy.
     
  24. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Well, I'm not trying to determine the worth of each age group. Just making yhe point that the youth teams don't have a lot of players who look set to beat out the current players. CB and maybe the keeper being exceptions. You don't have much of that until you get down to the U17 level.
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #275 Clint Eastwood, Sep 9, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2024
    Definitely. We should be open to everyone long term if they develop.

    But we're now down to less than 2 years until World Cup roster decisions need to be made.
    When we think about how much actual time Pochettino has to evaluate players, make decisions, and formulate the initial provisional roster...............its even less than that.

    Sometimes I read these threads and it seems people believe there's 5 years until WC26 roster decisions.

    Yes, there's time if a player is breaking out as a first team contributor NOW. Like Noahkai Banks seems to be. But he better be getting substantial minutes if he's hoping to pass up a regular starter at Celtic like CCV.

    The timeline doesn't make sense for Sullivan. Not to me anyway. He would need a great 2025 MLS season as a 15 year old. But we've talked about that ad naseum. A guy like Tillman has been a backup with the USMNT. And Tillman had 24 goal contributions for PSV last season. Cavan Sullivan would need to look like some prodigious talent. Maybe he will. I don't know.
     
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