Coronavirus Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Mar 17, 2020.

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  1. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  3. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @feyenoordsoccerfan - there have been so many f*ck ups that it's not even funny. I'm doing some papers on this right now. The only way out of this at present is massive testing for antibodies to see who has recovered from the infection. Remember many people are never diagnosed as they don't have sever symptoms. Right now in the US there is only ONE approved test. If we can make easy to use pregnancy test kits, why not this virus?
     
  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I was on a government advisory panel way back in 1992 that predicted this as well.
     
  6. The Dutch Statistic bureau has run statistical analysis of the number of deaths comparing months with and without covid presence. The number of covid deaths lag by the hundreds the gap between the normal rate of deaths and the current deaths. This can only mean our Covid-19 death numbers are, as our GP's already told us, are too low by hundreds.
    The only way to tell what the infection rate is, is by testing everyone who comes in for his blood test, like me for vitamin B12/Cholesterol/etc, for blood donation, test it for the virus. That only gives a perfect view of the situation. It doesnot take all people to be tested, as this will be more than what's needed for a sample test from the population.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I agree. Any diagnostic test should include SARS-CoV-2 test and if they have the antibodies they don't need to be tested again. This is easy to do in countries that have national health care systems and electronic health records. Sadly, the US has neither.
     
  8. US gouvernment with Dutch Janssen Vaccines in corona activity:
    www.sciencemag.org › news › 2020/03 › 1-billio...

    Vertaal deze pagina
    3 dagen geleden - Click here for free access to our latest coronavirus/COVID-19 research, ... new coronavirus just received a potential billion-dollar boost: Johnson & Johnson (J&J) ... Janssen's vaccine is built around an engineered version of ..
     
  9. Important part from the article:
    Q: Let’s say it works. What about accessibility? If you make 1 billion doses how do people around the world, in rich and poor countries, divide up who gets your vaccine?

    A: First of all, getting to a billion doses is trying to avoid a war about vaccines—there will be enough vaccine in the world to get going. But we’ll work with the health authorities. We are going to do this on a not-for-profit basis. This is the one time in history that we can really do something for the world that is really transformational. And then everyone can partner with us because we’re on equal footing. That’s why I hope we can scale up much faster, working with governments all over the world. I’m almost sure that it will accelerate everything by 6 months because we’re doing it not-for-profit. This is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, initiatives in J&J history to try and make a difference for the world.
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Here's a good column from Rory Smith of the NY Times on the coming storm in soccer. Amazing how some huge clubs are laying off staff and will ask for bail outs at the same time they are planning on spending big for new players.
     
    feyenoordsoccerfan repped this.
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I have been a J&J shareholder for a lot of years. Their vaccine division is one of the best around and I think can do something like this.
     
  12. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Still lots of people out and about

     
  13. Indeed an excellent analysis of the psycho of football participants.
     
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Are they beginning to screen people in The Netherlands for viral antibodies? This is the only good way to find out who has had the virus and recovered. It can be used as a tool to get people back to work.
     
  15. Apart from the blood donors I havenot heared of testing for antibodies in the Netherlands yet.
     
  16. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Forget about vaccines, it will take much too long before they get permission to do trials on humans and then also get to release it.

    New research :


    Researchers at the Aarhus University Hospital (AHU) in Denmark have now, as of yesterday, and as the first in the world, started a clinical trial of a drug named 'camostat mesylate' to fight the Coronavirus. The drug itself is well known and already licensed in Japan and South Korea, in use for treating pancreatitis. Which also has made it easy to get permission from the Danish authorities to do these trials..

    In short, 'camostat mesylate' do not kill virus as such, but in a recent lab test study it has shown to prevent the novel Coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, from entering and infecting human lung cells, by inhibiting a particular enzyme in the respiratory system, Read more here :

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/these-drugs-don-t-target-coronavirus-they-target-us#

    Info:
    Aarhus University Hospital (AUH), now also known as The New University Hospital (DNU) since 2020, is now the biggest and most modern single hospital in Denmark.
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You are wrong. I spent 30 years working in the pharmaceutical industry and have a bunch of friends who work in vaccine R&D. There are already five vaccines in human clinical trials and about a half dozen more. The reason trials take so long is that they have to demonstrate considerable safety as they are given to healthy individuals. I suspect that we will see a vaccine approved by early 2021. that time could have been shortened has some steps been taken several years ago but I don't want to get into that.

    This drug is already in trials in China and has been for over one month.

    There are about 40 drugs, all with different modes of action, currently in clinical trials. It is my hope that one of them works though it is extremely doubtful and any of them will help those who progress to very serious pneumonia brought about by SARS-CoV-2. Small trials such as the one in Aarhus are not productive. Candidate drugs need to be trialed in multiple centers and data constant monitored so that drugs that are not effective can be dropped from research.
     
  18. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Which is exactly why I'm right and not wrong, because one thing is being allowed to do trials with a new vaccine, another thing is getting it approved for distribution, which will take almost a whole year, or perhaps more, all depending on the results, while camostat mesylate is already approved and on the market, though for another purpose, but because it has already been approved, it will only take a few tests before it's ready to go.

    No it has not, I suggest you click the link I posted and read. The Danish hospital is working closely together with the Germans who did the original lab test study more than month ago. I have seen nothing about China also being involved in this anywhere. so you must have this confused with remdesivir or some other drugs being tested.
     
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I just wanna add there's real science behind this btw. But the pharmaceutical industry isnt interested in this because HP is so cheap they could never make money off this. Big Pharma isnt always necessarily interested in curing people, they are only interested in making as much money as they can.

    Read this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/203115

     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The WHO Clinical Trials Registry is currently open only to members right now so I cannot search for the the trial. Don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of doing trials on any promising drug. I have been tracking the literature and in addition to the trials currently underway, there have been a lot of approved drugs that have been targeted through computer modeling of all the important proteins including the one that camostat works against. the current clinial trials paradigm is not designed to work well in pandemic situation. Whether the mouse data reported in the Cell paper are meaningful in a human situation is what the trial should show. I hope the Aarhus researchers are able to generate data that will support widespread use. With the number of patients to be enrolled and the outcome criteria, the trial size is likely not large enough.

    Honestly, there is no point in arguing about this any longer. It's now what research institute or drug is best. Nobody knows right now. this is what clinical trials are for.
     
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Laundry bleach works very well to kill viruses as do a lot of other substances. You might want to add those to your therapy.
     
  22. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Bleach would damage your lungs, 3% hydrogen peroxide does no such thing
     
  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Can you provide a peer reviewed article on that? Keep up your aerosol treatments and let me know when there is a clinical trial published.
     
  24. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Please tell me O14, what would be the motivation for the pharmaceutical industry to do an expensive clinical trial on a drug like H2O2 which basically costs 2 or 3 dollars per bottle???

    What would be their ROI if their peroxide treatment eventually got approved, but there was no patent to protect their profits??
     

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