Copa Libertadores

Discussion in 'Bolivia' started by nanoGVSP, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    This seems to be a re-energized Bolivar with the thumping they gave Blooming yesterday.

    Willy scores a goal on his first game back. He could be back in the running to start along side Arce up top. Realistically though...I could see him taking Arce's spot because of the insistence in Borghello.

    We'll see...but I am hoping for a good result vs. Boca. Rumor is Tevez isn't going to play and they're in really bad form right now. We have to take advantage and win big at home.
     
  2. Eber1990

    Eber1990 Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I really hope he doesn't replace Arce right now, this is the best version I've seen of him, and not only based on his 4 Libertadores goals, but he also scores in la liga coming in as a sub.
     
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  3. nanoGVSP

    nanoGVSP Member+

    Jan 31, 2012
    New york
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Big game tonight fellas, if Bolivar gets the 3 points it'll be a huge boost of confidence and a big step towards the next round. Fingers crossed! Hope conejo goes off like last game.
     
  4. MrNiloBraun

    MrNiloBraun Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    LOL

    Deserved tie for boca, as soon as Saavedra scored Bolivar fell back toward their own end. Pathetic tactics, at home, with the altura and they're hanging on for dear life. Those argi forwards Claure got are pedestrian at best and I think Willy is done. Tenorio would have ripped that Boca back line apart. Too bad he left.
     
  5. nanoGVSP

    nanoGVSP Member+

    Jan 31, 2012
    New york
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    IMO it's all on Insua, he wanted those "refuerzos" and they're all as you said pedestrian at best. As soon as I saw Glores coming in for Cardozo I knew he was playing it safe or at least was done scoring, I got to say tho a good keeper would have had that.
     
  6. MrNiloBraun

    MrNiloBraun Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Yup, saw Flores coming in and I just shook my head. Not that taking Rudy off was a mistake because I thought he was mostly invisible but Flores being brought in was definitely the white flag. Quinonez should have had that save, it was basically right at him if you check the replay again and if you go back to the Racing game he should have done better on a few of those gols as well. Boca are not world beaters this was a game Bolivar let get away and it probably cost them the chance to move forward in the tourney.

    Claure has a quick trigger finger and he was at the game so I know that dagger at the last second ruined his whole trip. Doubt they'll advance now so if u guys don't win the league I'm pretty confident Insua will get his walking papers.

    Really unfortunate that Capdevilla was the one that gave up that last foul as he's been the best player for Bolivar in the games I've seen them.
     
  7. Eber1990

    Eber1990 Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Bolivar didn't deserve to win, as stated before as soon as we scored they stopped attacking. To much respect for a Boca that is not at their usual level. Insua is a coward.

    PS: I think it is unfair to put any blame on Ferreira, if anything he shouldn't have played this game at all. He just came back after 4 months! He needs more time to get back at his level. It's one thing playing in our mediocre league than playing a Libertadores game.
     
  8. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    such negative negative thinking....but with the hate you have for Bolivar of course you're going to come from that angle.

    Frankly, Schelotto deserves props. He did exactly what he aimed for. Had his guys half throttle the whole first half, saving their lungs for the send half. At 1-0 they just needed a tie. Our guys in turn gassed also from all the pressure, Capdevila wasn't tracking back as much, Cardozo supposedly played hurt, and when Insua made the change to bring on Flores for Cardozo, it was clear what the tactic was--bunker down and hope to hold on to the 1-0 win. Frankly he did it too early, and I think Cardozo should have stayed on until say the 75th minute at least. Boca turned on the jets, pushed us too into our own half, Flores being on didn't help with that and hurt us.

    We were just seconds away from a 1-0, hard drawn out match...but it didn't happen.

    If you think Tenorio could have helped...you must be dreaming. He's 37yo and if you watched him with LDU in this libertadores, he's a tad bit faster/thinner, but just as old as he got hurt for them in their last game (not most recent). With Bolivar too, it was clear he hit a wall and lost his finishing touch as he showed with LDU in the libertadores.

    Don't kid yourself trying to just bad mouth Bolivar because of your obvious hate for the club.
     
  9. MrNiloBraun

    MrNiloBraun Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Calling the guy a coward is a bit much I think but you're right, he respected that team way too much, especially the way they've been playing. You should never try to lay back and hold on for a tie against a team that is always looking to go forward and is used to being winners even if they've been playing like crap. I was shocked when Willy got put in I thought he was hurt.

    What happened to Arrascaita. He's always been a nice bolt of energy and skill off the bench. Yacerotte is still with the team?

    I don't think you know what the word hate means.

    Relax fuego, don't get so emotional. I was rooting for you guys last night, not that it matters. Nothing worse than a plastic Bolivian Boca fan. I'm not talking about the ones who were born and live in Buenos Aires, those guys are Argis as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about the bolivians who've never stepped foot in argi land or know much about the team. From reports I've read on twitter today there were plenty of them at the game last night rooting for Boca with their counterfeit Tevez jerseys.

    You may be right about Tenorio but I think you're selling him short compared to the guys they brought in to replace him. If any of those guys can come close to scoring the amount of gols he scored in our league I would be shocked. I think he would have been more dangerous even if to just open up space for others. Pointless argument now though.

    Now let's not go back and forth and ruin this thread. If you want to call me imaginative names or talk about hate then just PM me, otherwise just stick to the game.
     
  10. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    No creo que uno puede simplemente calmar el fuego, especialmente este fuego boliviano. ;)
     
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  11. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Dude, you've come out and admitted in the past how much you hate bolivar and how they're the 'rich' club and it bothers you for whatever the reason.It's fine, but that will always paint your posts when you talk about the club, in a certain light cause of your prejudice against the club.

    Again, nothing wrong--but anytime you say something about Bolivar it cannot be taken fully serious because it's not impartial (in my opinion).

    With that said, I agree on Tenorio. Yes--he could havev been better than Cellerino and Borghello...but he also could not. At the end of his run with Bolivar he struggled to finish any chances and almost looked like his shoelaces were tied together when he was on the field. His level was horrible at the end. I blame it on getting stale and he needed change of scenary. Either way--it is what it is.

    As for the 'fake' Boca fans....I agree--it's annoying to see. But that's how it is. Fake fans are everywhere. It happens a lot in Bolivia and just sports all together. A stadium is only as full as how well a team is doing. People for the most part, are sheep.
     
  12. nanoGVSP

    nanoGVSP Member+

    Jan 31, 2012
    New york
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    IMO Bolivar needs to get rid of Quiñonez, or sit his fat ass on the bench. Just saw that gol again, it's on him. Look at the highlights from the last game with la U de Sucre yesterday, same thing gol is his fault. If Bolivar wants to move on they need a better keeper. Plus Insua is not the guy, same approach to the game yesterday, score and play d for the rest of the game, 1-1 tie against ten men.....
     
  13. MADPUPPY

    MADPUPPY Member

    Apr 4, 2000
    Bolivar had it.

    When Boca scored, my girls and my wife looked at me as if I was supposed to be happy. My wife knew, but she gave me that "pick them up or u die" look. None Bolivian women.....
     
  14. MrNiloBraun

    MrNiloBraun Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Anyone actually see the Strongest/River game tonight.

    Just saw the highlights. Looks like Strongest had a ton of chances to put the game away and they crapped the bed. Chumasteiger saved their bacon in the last minute of play with a beautiful cutback gol in the box. All four gols in La Paz in both games have been absolute golazos. Bolivar/Strongest really gotta learn to put these teams away. Hopefully Strongest moves on as they have the best chance having already beat Sao Paolo in Brasil.
     
  15. dsauna

    dsauna Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Very frustrating game yesterday. Things didn't go as Soria expected, the main thing is is Veizaga's injury. He's the best DMF in the country and the only one in The Strongest, due to that he had to replace him with both Castro and Chuma and that position, Castro had to stay in the back and couldn't be the creator like in the Trujillanos game.

    Ramallo is very criticized by the fans for not scoring, but the 3 chances he had were very close; the first one was stopped by the goalkeeper, the second one hit the post and the third one was slightly above, not to mention that he created the 3 plays, he just needs a little more
     
  16. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Whether he had few or plenty of opportunities, he should have capitalized on them. Sadly, this is one of the main problems we have in all of the clubs in the LFB and the NT. What's the saying . . . "Jugamos como nunca, perdemos como siempre." In this case, "empatmos como siempre", just like Bolivar did and just you The Strongest did.
     
  17. nanoGVSP

    nanoGVSP Member+

    Jan 31, 2012
    New york
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I know both Bolivar and Strongest tied, but you got to admit Strogest played better and looked more aggressive, plus emotionally I'd rather tie like El Tigre did, it almost feels like a win. I loved the faces of the River players after Chuma's goal. My Argie friends are telling me " we'll see what these Bolivian teams are mane of once they come to Argentina " I think both will do well(as in losing with dignity) at least nowadays there is some hope of actually getting a tie or even a win, a couple of years back we just wondered how bad it was gonna be.
     
  18. Eber1990

    Eber1990 Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's the difference. Tying against a big team at home is a victory for The Strongest, while the same is a defeat for Bolivar, because we expect more from our team, we don't settle for crumbs.
     
  19. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I agree and that's mainly due to the 2nd half performances of both clubs. When you break it down, Bolivar played better in the 1st half but The Strongest played better in the 2nd half; we defended our lead mostly the whole 2nd half, which cost us the win and had to settle for a tie whereas you continue to attack to earn a tie.

    I think you are selling your team short my friend; either that or you have really short term memory. In the past 2 tournaments before this one, they didn't lose nor tie a game at home once. Did you know that?

    Your club probably doesn't feel the way you do (which is good) but sadly, I think many fans such as yourself do.

    As for us, I couldn't have said it more than how Mr. Eber1990 said it below...

     
  20. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Huh? Put the game away? You scored in stoppage time... To "put the game away"one needs to actually be winning first.

    I admit you did create some good chances, but so did River, Sebastian Driussi missed 3 wide open goals on his own- and your goalie didn't even have to make a save on any of the 3, while in our case, there was merit from Barovero to stop the shots your team had. We just let you off the hook.

    River also completely bossed the game in the second half.

    At the end, you got an equalizer but you need to see it in context that our team had lost our starting CB to injury and had to reshuffle the defense bringing in a RB and sliding our starting RB to the center of dedense- this was the area where your goal came from.

    So in the future, I would actually watch the game rather than just relying on highlights because by no means did the strongest have a chance to put River away, in reality you were lucky to get a draw and had it not been for injuries and fatigue at altitude the story would have been different. River will win 3-0 in Buenos Aires
     
  21. dsauna

    dsauna Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    We could've put the game away in the first half before you guys scored. We had 3 clear chances before you guys scored and 3 after you scored, we were clearly superior on the first half. One chance, one goal, that's all you had. And don't blame the fact that we played better the first half on the altitude you guys were still fresh.

    River did have 3 clear chances on the second half, but that was because we were pressing forward the entire game, and one of our defenses sucks! we also missed chances on the second half. The tie overall for you guys was an excellent result.
     
  22. dsauna

    dsauna Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It was definitely not a victory for any of the fans or for the team, but in this case, I'll take a tie over a win anytime. .
     
  23. nanoGVSP

    nanoGVSP Member+

    Jan 31, 2012
    New york
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    #73 nanoGVSP, Mar 23, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
    You are mistaken, To be perfectly honest with you I don't consider my self a supporter of any particular team in Bolivia. I support them all when playing international tournaments, I love what Bolivar is doing with their youth system, and how both Strongest and Bolivar have improved in international competitions throughout these last couple of years. My point was that as a player I would rather tie the game in the last minute and gain a point rather than have the other team tie in the last minute. You walk away with a bad taste in your mouth when you are leading the entire game only to loose two points in the last kick of the game. If you played you know what I'm talking about. Which leads to my second point, I don't like Insua I think he played like a coward protecting a lead so early in the game.
    I'm hoping both Bolivian teams do well in Argentina, the mentality that Insua has scares me I don't think he trusts his players, furthermore the "refuerzos" he requested have yet to show me something. So don't be condescending to me asking if "I knew that" when you didn't even get the point of my post.
     
  24. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    If that's the case, I apologize. You came off as someone who is a fan of The Strongest. I'm glad to hear that you notice how both clubs have done much better in the cups these past few years.

    I was referring to this statement thinking it was with regards to The Strongest because 1) again, I thought you were a Strongest fan, 2) this is a Copa Libertadores forum, and 3) I did read your comment quickly and I apologize for that. Also, I gave you those stats of the Strongest in the cups because, again, I thought you were a Strongest fan and didn't mean to come off condescending. I'm anything but that. Being a Bolivar fan, I always take any opportunity to brag our accomplishments versus The Strongest's. Hahaha However, if I see a Strongest fan or any other fan bring down their own team for the wrong reasons, I can't help but to point that out. Again, my mistake.

    When you put it that way, yeah of course, but in your previous statement you said that tying was "almost like a win" which is the point that you made then and the reason I said that I agree with Eber1990's comments.

    I agree for the most part of what you said here. This shows even more in the league matches. Losing like that in this league doesn't hinder our chances of wining the title. This is fortunate for us but of course sad for our league. Things need to change in either Insua's coaching style or seek new mangement and hopefully this is done sooner than later. Especially in terms of qualifying for both the Libertadores and Sudamericana because if you don't win both the Apertura and Clausura title, you can only qualify for one of them which I think is bullshit. As far as I know, they don't do that in other countries.
     
  25. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Personally, I don't think Insua's the right man for the job.

    While he may be a good coach, he since signing his contract has been going through something personal which hasn't been brought to light (as it shouldn't). He is dealing with something back home and constantly has to travel, heck--even during the first practice, he was back in Argentina so the guys trained wtih the assistant for the first time!!

    Now, that's not BAD I guess...and I don't hold that against him--but it's clear as day his mind isn't on this t eam 100% like a coach should be with his squad. He seems to be a pretty agressive minded coach who knows how to play attacking footie, but I like to think he's not at the level he should be for personal reasons.

    I wish he'd resign already and let someone else take over in his place because he's going at most 50% right now trying to run this team and dela with whatever is going on back home.

    It's unfair to the club, to the fans, and especially to himself and his reputation. There's osme idiot fans who are calling for his head despite the stuff coming out about whatevver he's dealing wtih off the field. I think that's not classy at all, but at the same time, I hope so too--he lets his ego go and knows when to throw in the towel. Since the beginning he came in half throttle and it shows with his 'refuerzos' who look like last minute 'emergency' pick ups. Only one worthy is Cardozo who is a no brainer given his pedigree.

    He needs to, if things don't go well against Boca, call it quits and save us all pain.
     
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