PBP: Copa do Mundo 2026 - other teams and news thread

Saw something that said 7 finals and only 3 wins. Puts things into perspective to be honest.

Going to be interesting to see how that NT rebuilds as lots of key pieces from 2022 will finally leave. I think Scaloni is a good manager though so that helps.

Also, have a bit of an inkling Messi stays on a bit longer....

 

Concerning the Netherlands 4 years ago, supposedly there was a lot of trash talk between both teams, so that was the rationale provided by some of the Argentines for their conduct. It doesn't make it noble or ethical, but I would at least be willing to understand it given the heat of the moment.

Now, concerning the semifinal against England - sports and politics should not mix.

Maradona himself said in his book "Meu Mundial, Minha Verdade" that if the British were to be blamed for killing many Argentine youths in the 1982 conflict, likewise the junta who sent those kids to face the military machine of the then third-strongest geopolitical entity (after the U.S. and the USSR). And this time, it was not the English who mentioned the Falklands; it was the Argentines' own vice-president, on X. That banner was inappropriate, but it also revealed how insular those people are, because however passionately they believe those islands are theirs, and however true and correct this claim is in their country, the British are in charge and that's not going to change.

 

Well, 2014, 2022, and 2026 is not a bad record. They deserve credit for reaching 3 finals in 12 years. It mirrors Brazil 1958, 1962, 1970 as well as Brazil 1994, 1998, and 2002 (sort of). It's just that Brazil won 5 of those 6 finals.

 

Johan Cruyff is ultimatly responsible for inventing two world superpowers: his very own Netherlands, and now also Spain (tika taka can be traced back to him at Barcelona). The lesson for us is, players should be overseeing youth divisions and working as "identity keepers". The brightest ones at that. Not physical ed graduates, and most certainly not politicians, or agents.

 

Ah yes - that's right... I had forgotten about that incident 20 years ago.

I specifically singled out Paredes because I did not want to write a blanket statement against their entire team, and to be fair, for example, Messi and their manager Scaloni did not participate in the hostilities and Scaloni tried to separate the Argentines and Spaniards who were confronting each other. But what happened in 2006 was another example of how sometimes Argentine players show zero sportsmanship.

 

That's disgusting. Which French player threw such a cheap shot after the 2022 final penalty shootout? Or which West Germany player decided to start a fight after the final in 1986?

 

Actually it was Ernst Happel, who invented Total Football. Cruijff, when confronted with the 4-3-3 of Happel in 1969 with the midfield supertrio van Hanegem, Jansen, Hasil, forced Michels to drop 4-2-4 line up, after they were overrun by Feyenoord. Cruijff genius was that he spotted the brilliance of Ernst Happel concept.
Because the world only started watching Dutch football after 1974, they contributed what they saw to the guys playing it, but completely ignoring the emergence of it that started at Feyenoord with Happel. In fact it was something Happel was familiar with, because it was kind of style played in central Europe (Austria, Hungary) in the 1950ies. So Ernst took that luggage with him when he came to the Netherlands and perfected it there.

 

Bad calls do happen, but I too felt they were getting a bit of help. Messi if I'm not mistaken deserved a red card early on for kicking an opponent in the calf.

I draw a parallel between this team and their 1978 counterpart. I was too young to follow that tournament closely, but critics have said to this day that biased refereeing happened then too. Whether or not their government "bought" the tournament, those controversies got in the way of the efforts and performance of a team that was actually solid and competitive.

I likewise draw a comparison between yesterday and the 1990 final. Argentina was thoroughly outplayed by Germany in that match, although they did not go 90 minutes without shots on goal. In Italy, they were clearly going for PKs and yesterday PKs was their only hope.

Re: Libertadores, they launched aggressive fouls against the English early on and tried to get on the Spaniards' nerves. Even a member of their coaching staff, Roberto Ayala (he of the own goal in our favor in the CA 2007 final) punched a Spaniard.

I said earlier on that in their country, they are accustomed to acting this way, and as a Brasileiro who has watched Libertadores matches aplenty, I was convinced some of them were going to attempt to fight after the final whistle. I was right - but even some former players from Europe said they predicted it. That's one thing about them - they think that what they get away with or is acceptable in their country is fine when done elsewhere because they're "passionate." But it isn't. The players and staff who attacked/struck Spaniards (Ayala, Paredes, Molina) should be ashamed of themselves; FIFA should issue a several-matches-long ban on Paredes and Molina.

I only learned later that the entire squad turned their backs on Spain when Spain lifted the trophy. These are players with club titles aplenty in South America and in Europe. They know that their teams will not win every single tournament. What a disgraceful display.

How ironic that several players in their squad make a living in..... Spain.

As for Argentina not belonging in the final.... well, I will admit I expected a more even match. But as I wrote earlier, this was an aged and tired team. They expended tremendous physical, mental, and emotional energy en route to the final. And in terms of tactics and futebol, as the whole world saw and knows, Spain was superior from start to finish.

 

Interesting enough Belgium gave Spain their most difficult test. I know some will say Cabo Verde (but that was still the opener and 3 maybe but definitely 4 Points advances). Whereas Spain were trailing in a KO match. If Thibault Courtois doesn't go off injured maybe he doesn't cause that mistake his replacement Senne Lammens causes that led to the Spain winner.

 

The hate being heaped on Argentina right now is rather epic!

 

You as a longtime veteran of these boards have seen me trade barbs with Argentine posters, and you may therefore be surprised when I tell you I don't have as much animus as I once did.

They had a run for the ages this year, and their fans won't forget it anytime soon.

It's just sad that this campaign, which did end in a way that disappointed their fans, was marred by that kind of brutish, crude, and lowly behavior.

 

I never seen so many against one team in quite a long time.

Paraguay still takes the cake though for most disgusting team in WC. It is a shame they get to auto qualify.

 

Cruyff did not invent but rather was the player who made Rinus Michels' ideas of Total Football work on the pitch for Ajax and the Netherland's national team. Michels transformed Ajax tactically. Also, the origins of Total Football are more evolutionary than revolutionary. To my knowledge, possession-based football, passing, and interchangeable positions were a focus even in the early part of the 20th century. Brazil deserves enormous credit for technical, passing and possession-based attacking football. Brazil's 1970 team was actually more fluid in attack than Cruyff's Dutch team, because Pele, Gerson, Tostao, Jairzinho, and Rivellino all naturally interchanged positions and could function as playmakers. However, Brazil did not ask every player to exchange every position, especially in defense; therefore, it was not Total Football in the strict sense.

The Ernst Happel insight added by feyenoordsoccerfan is great.
Cruyff is nevertheless unique because he transformed teams in different ways:
As a player, he was the driving force behind Ajax's European dominance (3 European Cups). As the national team leader, he was the face of the Netherlands' team (who barely played in the World Cup before him and Michels). As a coach, he transformed Barcelona. Cruyff's ideas continue to shape football today, although teams don't really play Total Football but do so in a more positional style.

 

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By the 1980s the Dutch NT had fallen into obscurity again. They failed to quality for 82 and 86 World Cups and the 1984 Euro's as well. It wasn't until Cruyff's stint at Ajax in the mid 80s that their NT was revived. The basis of the Dutch team that won the Euros in 1988 were his proteges (Rijkaard, Van Basten, Jan Wouters). After 88 they became an established world power, but the 74-78 teams could've been a flash in the pan without Cryuff. Then Barcelona hired in after that. 20 years later in 2008 Cruyff stil had input, he was responsible for the appointment of Pepe Guardiola as their manager. SOme of Barca's directors wanted Mourinho instead. Imagine the alternate timeline where Mourinho becomes Barcelona's coach in 2008. Tika-Taka never happens. Netherlands may have actually won the 2010 world Cup. Messi would still be a great player, but without Barca's 70% possession and Xavi and Iniesta serving him I dunno if he'd be in any GOAT conversation right now.

 

That's more than a tad peculiar given AFA is under investigation by the FBI.

Lawsuits will do nothing. The final match was broadcast live to dozens of countries and millions watched the misbehavior of their players after the match and the several dirty fouls by their players during the match as they occurred. Any team's image would have worsened after such a display.

It's what I said before. They are so accustomed to living a cloistered existence in their country, which is why they don't see how their antics are not acceptable outside their borders. Those of us who are Brazilian and have long dealt with their teams in club and country competitions were not surprised at all some of their players acted with such lowliness after the final whistle; ditto some former professional players from Europe who have faced them.

I knew some of their fans had misbehaved during this tournament; a lot of them did so in Brazil 12 years ago, and I have, in my own past, faced rude Argentines in soccer stadiums. But I then saw a video of a crowd of them in Times Square; one of them grabbed and spat on an English flag, threw it on the ground, and then he and his compatriots gleefully danced and stomped on it. That may have provided emotional comfort given so very many of them are still carrying animus from the 1982 war, but in the end, what does it do other than make them look terrible? How can they complain when Brazilians burn Peso notes?

Furthermore, last I checked, the islands remain British, and they followed up that win over England with probably the most unimpressive display by a finalist in the history of the tournament: no shots on goal during 90 minutes and two in 120 (and neither was on target) vs. a 2-hour long bombardment by Spain. Perhaps if they had showed some of the same effort from their match against England when facing Spain, they might have had a better chance at reaching their tetracampeonato.

It's exactly what an image I saw says: Spaniard players celebrating and holding up a large white sign with the inscription: "Ni las Malvinas ni la Copa."

 

Despite being given the, on paper and intended, easy path, Argentina stumbled, crawled and was given a helping hand by refs to get passed non top ten teams.
Remember the shameless fraud calling back 3d goal of Egypt, the way they were overrun by Cabo Verde (with 6 players from Rotterdam in the selection, of which is the one with the stunning goal).
Seems one footie commentator said in 90 minutes he saw 20 attempts on goal by Spain and 20 attempts of murder by the Argies.