Copa America planning and roster construction

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jun 20, 2023.

  1. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    If you prefer not to name them, I guess I'll survive but I would still like to hear the names. It really is just curiosity.

    I am not too sure, but I have a feeling that we are in agreement on 2 of them. As for the third, I have a few candidates but really couldn't make a decision because I haven't seen them enough. (one on my list also fits that category but he's there anyway).
     
  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The names are Sean Johnson, Miles Robinson, and Shaq Moore.

    Berhalter has made a habit of stuffing his bench with players he has no intention of playing. There has been one common theme on where those players play. It started at his first tournament in 2019 and continues to this day, but luckily less and less.

    Many of these guys started that tournament with much bigger roles but shit the bed. Notice that Boyd is the only non-MLSer and the only non-MLS player i can recall that Berhalter called into a camp and intended to play, but failed in 5 years. Am I missing someone?

    Substitutes not used: 12-Sean Johnson, 22-Tyler Miller, 2-Nick Lima, 3-Omar Gonzalez, 5-Walker Zimmerman, 6-Wil Trapp, 9-Gyasi Zardes, 15-Cristian Roldan, 16-Daniel Lovitz,18-Jonathan Lewis, 20-Djordje Mihailovic, 21-Tyler Boyd
     
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  3. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Thank you for the reply.
    Lund? He sure hasn't gotten much time in the last few camps and hasn't featured this camp either.

    My two names were Sean Johnson, Shaq Moore. I had a feeling you might choose Miles Robinson. I haven't seen him play for a while, so can't comment on him. I believe our views on him pre-injury are different. My big question is whether or not he is back to his previous form.
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Thank you. It is nice to actually have a discussion with somebody around here.

    I was thinking McKenzie. I just checked the history and he hasnt been a regular in the squad since 2021. He has only played 3 times for us since the WC including a start vs Grenada and off the bench vs Uzbekistan and Oman. It looks like Berhakter tried to make it work in 2021 and now is more of a fringe, depth option.

    Lund is a weird situation. I dont enough about to have an opinion. That provides a selfish reason to see him play, but really want another option to Antonee. If isnt willing to give Lund a shot, I wish berhakter would experiment with some of the attacking players who have played R/LB or WB. He could definitely become a guy Berhlater likes because he is just happy to be there???

    Correct! Never enamored with Miles. He always seemed to rely on his athleticism. Concerned that might get exploited at higher levels and then there is the issue of his athleticism likely isn't what it used to be. I doubt he is the best American CB at his club. Luckily for Miles, berhalter and the other guy don't see eye to eye on things.
     
  5. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    think the main issue here is that Dest was the starting RB and the backup LB so when we lost him we also lost him as the backup LB. Just gotta hope Jedi stays healthy, he’s played an outlandish amount of mins this year.
     
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Hmmmm.... maybe we shouldn't plan on one of starters being a backup in another position.
     
  7. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I kind of think Berhalter likes McKenzie but he has shown a tendency to make some big mistakes. I think he can definitely raise his stock with Berhalter. I have never rated CCV too high and see CCV and McKenzie as being in the same boat. Right now, assuming Robinson returns to his previous form (health), I see him and Richards as having the inside track for the starting job. McKenzie and CCV seem to be the current backups but I don't think either is particularly safe.

    Lund seems to be a place holder for the moment. I think there are several candidates for ARob's backup spot. Any one of whom could beat out Lund but they are young and kids don't always pan out so who knows?
     
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  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't know. Lund is only 22 and starts for Palermo.

    He could be a placeholder or develop into a guy we trust behind Robinson. We'll see.

    [When Robinson was in his early 20s he was on 3 terrible Championship teams in a row. Bolton in 2017/2018 barely avoided relegation and Wigan the following two years. Wigan was relegated in 2019/2020.]

    To me, Wiley seems like the one to keep an eye on.
     
  9. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    I doubt it was our plan to simply not have a domestically developed LB be a good enough player but we haven’t developed one in 3 straight generations now. It’s a remarkable run of futility at that position.

    Frankly, we “did” have a plan at LB to make up for that! It was recruiting Jedi (who’s only eligible because his dad was a naturalized citizen after 8-10 years of adolescence + Duke university soccer here) and Dest (an American father) to join the program! Both had almost no experience ever having been in the country! Very glad they’ve joined up, happy to have Lund (another non-domestic developed dual!) on board to provide us with another guy with a pulse at the position.

    Anyway, hopefully we figure out how to develop a player at this position in the next 50 years.
     
  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think left back we do have guys in the pipeline who could develop however. Tolkin, Wiley, Gomez, Bello, McFarlane, etc. All guys who are domestically developed who could plausibly end up with the national team.

    I’m more worried at current about the pipeline at right back behind Dest and Scally.
     
  11. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    I don’t actually believe in any of the guys you mentioned as guys who can reach the level Jedi is at right now. Maybe one or two of them could be a serviceable LB on national team rosters eventually. I’m not confident any of them will be more than that. I think the list you sent actually proves the point I was making.
     
  12. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think it’s inconceivable that a few of those guys could reach the standard of starter in a top 5 league. Someone like Caleb Wiley is still extremely young.

    How many players in the pool as a whole have reached the level of Jedi to begin with? Good starter in the EPL.
     
  13. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    True, he is only 22. The fact is that he is still young and a lot can change in a short time for a player his age. I don't see him as a player going forward, but I am also 100% aware that I could be 100% wrong.
     
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if DaMarcus Beasley was a 00 instead of an 82 he'd be a specialist attacking left-back.
     
  15. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    #640 nycfc919, Jun 19, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
    I would agree that Wiley has the most upside. When Jedi was younger than Lund is now, he had an 8-figure transfer fee with Milan fall through due to the heart issue. He was on bad teams but young and one of the best players on those teams. People here just didn’t like him because he struggled mightily in a very small sample with the NT (particularly in a Brazil friendly that had a lot of eyes on it) but he was quite good at a very young age in the Championship. None of the current 23 and under guys in the pipeline are on a similar trajectory, unfortunately. Hence why I’ll say I’d hold out most hope for the youngest players (although I’m not holding my breath).
     
  16. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jedi does however have the issue that he lacks end product. If he didn’t he might be one of the best left backs in the world.

    Notwithstanding that he had an awesome season, one of the best of any of our players this year. Good enough that with their injury issues he probably would have gotten consideration for the England team had he not been locked in with us.
     
  17. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I think that Lund is the highest-upside developing player at left back. He is a rare athlete with excellent size and skill. Its all between the ears from this point forward.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. EVERY 3rd keeper is a player a coach doesn’t intend to play.
    2. A smart coach will OF COURSE rely on the local, IN SEASON league for his “break glass in case of emergency” players. Guys in their offseason deserve an offseason. Only a dumb manager would call in a Euro as the last defender and disrupt that player’s health between seasons.
     
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I would disagree with both those points.

    My interpretation is this post is just an MLS fan trying to defend MLS players inclusion in the USMNT. The argument is incredibly bizarre and the only real takeaway is this guy thinks MLS regular season is worthless. I know quite a few people who would agree with that.
     
  20. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Eddie Lewis would probably be a LB (full time, not just a late career move) in today's game too. Arguably Bobby Convey even.
     
  21. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It isnt what I was talking about, but it raises an interesting point. Unless "we" had a real serious plan to develop quality left backs, then based off history, we were planning by default. I guess we should raise this with the "MLS academies are doing a fantastic job" crowd.

    The planning i was referencing was this coaching staff's lack of it with the pool he has had. This coaching staff didn't recruit Antonee. This coaching staff decided Antonee wasn't good enough to be in the team after showing he was so that he could play a crappy MLS player there and Tim Ream. Once he finally called up Antonee, he still didn't him play him, as he moved Dest to the left to accommodate a bunch of subpar right backs who are no longer part of the program. So once he finally selected Antonee, he needed every minute to get him integrated into the team before the WC.

    Since the WC, Scally as started getting more opportunities, but to accommodate, he continued moving Dest to the left. He mostly rotated three players at the outside back positions. As I said before, a coach shouldn't plan on a starter being the back up at a second position. I have no problem with moving Dest, but we still needed to have another option at left back. Maybe it could be Lund or a an attacking player moving back, but this coach hasn't sorted it out in front of a major tournament.

    I dont have faith in the ones in charge of that.
     
  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is odd that the man who was blocking Jedi’s path to the first team was Daniel Lovitz.
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Things that never happened for $100 please.
     
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  24. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That did happen.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lovitz started two games when Robinson was available.

    Dest, Ream and Vines started more.

    Also Robinson was awful in 2019. He was promising but his actual performances were awful.
     

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