Copa America historical all-star teams

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Vegan10, May 3, 2016.

  1. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    With another South American tournament on the horizon, as I was looking through some old magazines my eyes captured one edition of Don Balon, Spain's football magazine, in which they gave a review of the 1989 event held in Brazil. They spoke about the teams, the players and handed out their best starting XI, which prompted me to open a thread dedicated to the best players, according to the reviews of the time, of any Copa America (South American competition) that was held from 1916 to present. The Argentine magazine of El Grafico was a good source that sometimes provided all-star squads, match player grades, etc...so I will use that as a primary source. This will not be in chronological order, since I'll drop info from whatever I discover from time to time. I will not use retrospective awards, as it holds little bearing of what may have been viewed at the time, which ultimately can be misleading since with the passage of time, the players with the biggest names tend to receive recognition, even if they didn't warrant it.

    If anyone has any sources regarding this topic please share it here.
     
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  2. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    (good remark on how it was seen at the time/ retrospectively made things)
     
  3. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Would love to see the teams of the tournament based on ratings msioux75 posted from Peru in a variety of threads summarized in one place.

    @msioux75

    I will give it a shot if he can't get around to it.
     
  4. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Thanks. Yes, I remember some info @msioux75 had posted but can't quite remember the details. It may have been a Peruvian source from an edition of the 1950s.

    Indeed. Thanks.
     
  5. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    I'll kick off with the 1987 event held in Argentina. Uruguay won the tournament in the final defeating Chile.

    1987 Copa America


    Carlos Valderrama was chosen by reporters that covered this event as the best player of the competition. I believe this was the first golden ball winner that was officially created in the history of this tournament.

    The top 3 best voted players:
    1. Carlos Valderrama (Colombia) 79 votes
    2. Roberto Rojas (Chile) 28 votes
    3. Diego Maradona (Argentina) 19 votes

    This was what primarily sparked Valderrama to win the South American player of the year award, as he captained Colombia to a third place finish. Rojas was Chile's goalkeeper that guided them to a runner-up finish. Diego Maradona, who played in inferior physical condition due to a tendinitis and battled flu-type symptoms reducing him to 60 percent of his capabilities, according to his medical staff, captained Argentina to 4th position. No Uruguayan player was chosen despite Uruguay winning the championship.

    http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1987/07/14/pagina-18/1153537/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen

    I'll then get into other press voices and the best XI, according to the magazine of El Grafico
     
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  6. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #6 Vegan10, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
    El Grafico produced their 1987 Copa America best team, best starting XI and awarded their best player as well, which was given to Carlos Valderrama.

    The all-star squad was this:

    --------------------------Rojas----------------------
    Dominguez------Gutierrez-----Delgado----Capurro
    Chirinos----Batista-----Valderrama-----Maradona
    ----------Alzamendi--------Careca)--------

    Top rated 11:
    Rojas 7.00 (Chile)
    Dominguez 7.00 (Uruguay)
    Gutierrez 7.00 (Uruguay)
    Delgado 7.00 (Paraguay)
    Valderrama 7.00 (Colombia)
    Alzamendi 7.00 (Uruguay)
    Careca 7.00 (Brazil)
    Maradona 6.75 (Argentina)
    Batista 6.66 (Argentina)
    Chirinos 6.50 (Peru)
    Capurro 6.00 (Ecuador)

    Most of these players only featured in 2 matches, such was the case with Uruguay, who received a bye to the semifinals, a decision that was questioned by El Grafico due to the system that allowed them to freshly wait to face an Argentine side that had to fight their way through the group stage to the final rounds.

    Colombia was viewed as the best side. The elimination of Brazil was unexpected especially after getting hammered 4-0 by Chile. Argentina were the great disappointment, never reaching close to their WC form.

    [​IMG]


    Will get into some press voices later on, especially dedicated to the home side and Maradona.
     
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  7. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Where's Basay from Chile?
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Playing just two matches overinflates the grade, but this being limited to the two final rounds (on rival territory) brings that down. Difficult to say how that evens out.
     
  9. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Not sure about the specifics, will need to look at the match grades, but evidently not sufficiently highly rated to make the top team. Maybe he would have made a second B team, along with Juan Carlos Letelier, but not sure.
     
  10. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    El Grafico, being from Argentina, asked the foreign press 2 questions regarding the home side and Maradona. 20 correspondents were involved.

    1.) How do you judge the performance of Argentina?

    2.) What did you think of Maradona?

    [I'll just summarize quickly the important parts]

    Jurriaan Van Wessem (Dutch magazine of "Elf")
    1. They failed. The first reason is that Maradona and Bilardo have too much power....the second reason is that the cup started too late, if not Maradona and the whole team would have been in better shape. With Ramon Diaz and Passarella, even without Maradona they would have won.

    2. He looked physically tired. He had a good tournament but he was not the player of Mexico and Italy.

    Yoshiyuki Osumi (Answer Tokyo Japan)
    1. With defensive weaknesses. It's not the same to have Burruchaga and Valdano and replace them with Tapia and Percudani....

    2. Physically poor. Tired from a hard season in Italy. Still he was the best player of the championship"

    El Veco (newspaper "El Comercio" Peru)
    1. I think they were loyal to their previous results, in other words a team that still depends on Maradona....

    2. If Maradona played at 40% due to physical problems and we all said: what a genius! if he would have been fully fit we would have finished the dictionary with adjectives.

    Roberto Beccantini ("La Gazzetta dello Sport" Italy)
    1. It was a team without brilliance. Important players like Burruchaga, Valdano and Enrique were missing.....
    2. Maradona was always decisive even at 50%. I saw him very tired.

    Julio Del Puerto ("Noticias" Paraguay)

    1. Discrete....
    2. Below the standards that can be expected from him. He's not in good physical shape....he was not mentally prepared for this.

    Atilio Garrido ("El Diario" Montevideo, Uruguay)
    1 and 2. Without category. Both questions are united because the dependency has reached so much on Maradona that Diego becomes the thermometer of the team..... If they let him play, it's of the highest order, but right now he's exhausted, although he's so great that - despite the perfect marking that was applied on him by Uruguay - he created 3 or 4 chances that could have changed the outcome of the match.

    Jose Angel De La Casa (Spanish television, Spain)
    1. As a group a little disappointing....you can feel the absences of some players...
    2. Maradona is the player that establishes the difference, even at a 50% of capabilities he does great things. It's a shame that he came to play in this physical state, I think he should have prepared better for his people and for us...

    Carlos Antonio Velez ((Grupo Radial Colombia)
    1. Normal because Bilardo is preparing something new.....
    2. Tired. He's coming off a very hard season, exhausted physically. In normal conditions, he would have put the team on his back, without care for the new teammates or different schemes.

    To be continued....

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    In the meantime, some match grades from the final rounds:

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Except for the Paraguayan correspondent, great praise for Maradona individually.
     
  13. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
  14. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011

    Jean-Marie Lorant (France Football, France)

    1. They were not as brilliant as in the WC. They were missing players and when Maradona is a little reduced, it takes a lot to impose their game. It can be considered a failure because they were favorites and at home.....

    2. He said he was tired, but despite this he scored 3 goals and on one leg and was by far the best player at the Copa America.

    Pedro Carcuro (Television national of Chile)

    1. Way below of what was expected.....when Maradona could not function, they showed that they had nothing.
    2. He had brilliant moments which changed the team. At least for the first 45 minutes against Uruguay. After that, in the second half, I saw him very tired and exhausted.

    Fabio Poveda (Newspaper "El Heraldo", Colombia)

    1. Below their level....
    2. He's still a genius. He made plays as such, but he's very tired, very beat up and he did not have anyone to accompany him.

    Kelichi Chino (Soccer magazine, Japan)

    1. Conflictive.....
    2. A great player, unquestionably the number 1. Despite not being in plenitude, it was still enough for him to be the best player in the tournament.

    Jorge Da Silveira (Radio Oriental channel 4, Uruguay)
    1. I expected more....they had too many defensive problems.... They depended too much on Maradona.
    2. I still believe he is the best, he arrived exhausted, with an important tendinitis problem, he had to deal with a severe state of the flu, despite this he showed his class throughout moments.

    Francis Huertas (Magazine Onze, France)

    1. Logical. Argentina has a way of playing that missing 2 or 3 players, they don't guarantee anything...
    2. I have a big dilemma with Maradona. I want to know if in his heart he feels Bilardo's game. I'll never have the answer. As far as his game, it was not like at the WC, but he never had company.

    Fernando Lima (TV Globo, Brasil)

    1. I believe there is two teams: one which is only Maradona and the other with 10 players. If they control Maradona, Argentina is incomplete, they need other quality players from the rest.

    2. I don't think he has the same concern of staying in top shape. He's not the same, he looks fat. With the same class, but no longer with the motivation.

    Juha Tamminen (magazine Futan, Finland)
    1. Bad. They are the defending champs, at home and they could not beat Peru, Uruguay and Colombia....
    2. When he touched the ball, it's clear he's on another level from the rest. But this time he was not the difference. I expected more from him.

    Bruno Pesaola (TV Montecarlo, Monaco)
    1. They need to continue to work....
    2. He never did all he could have done, but one cannot ask him to make miracles. He's coming from playing and winning in the most difficult championship in the world.....

    Carlos Alberto Gomez (Radio 1 Marzo, Paraguay)

    1. Below what was expected....
    2. Maradona, the best player in the world, played well despite not being in the best shape. He provided flashes of his great class and talent.

    Massimo Tecca (Corriere dello Sport, Italy)
    1. Negative. And I expected them to not depend so much on Maradona.... players are missing...
    2. Fantastic in the first 2 games. Unfortunately he suffered from getting burned out. In any event he was decisive, without Maradona Argentina would not have made it to the semifinals.

    Toto Arevalo (Radio Panamericana and channel 9, Bolivia)
    1. Disappointing. As world champs they were obligated to reach the final. They played like in Mexico, defending, but this time they met teams that played the same way. And besides, Maradona was not in plenitude.

    2. Despite not being in top shape, he's still the best, although he did not gravitate in the phases when his team needed him.
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    I'll move onto 1989 now, but this time El Grafico did not select a best starting XI. They did however continue to grade players. Other sources did pick an ideal team, such as the Spanish magazine of Don Balon and some others.

    This time the main star was Ruben Sosa from Uruguay. The New York Times stated this about him:

    Tournament's Top Player

    Most of the soccer world discovered Sosa last July, when he powered Uruguay into the finals of the 1989 America Cup, the national team championship of South America. In seven matches, Sosa scored four goals, all memorable.

    Although his team lost to Brazil in the final, Sosa was named the tournament's outstanding player, chosen over Diego Maradona of Argentina and Brazil's high-scoring striker, Bebeto. He'll be on an even bigger stage next month, as he leads Uruguay into the World Cup finals in Italy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/04/sports/a-rush-to-stardom.html

    This time it's uncertain who was ranked behind him, as the top 3, since I could not find any source. Maybe the best hint was from the article above, which stated that Sosa was chosen over Diego Maradona of Argentina and Bebeto of Brazil. But I don't know.

    EFE, utilizing correspondents from South America and Europe, produced their ideal team which was this:

    ------------------------Pumpido----------------
    -----Mazinho---Delgado---Hugo De Leon--Branco---
    -----Aguinaga------Neffa------Paz----Dunga--------------
    ------------------Bebeto------------Sosa--------


    http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1989/07/18/pagina-22/1198856/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen


    And Mundo Deportivo from Barcelona chose their ideal team:

    -------------------Pumpido/Zeoli------------------
    -------Herrera---- Ricardo---- Galvao ----Branco
    ------Ostolaza ----Perdomo--- Dunga ----Basualdo
    -----------------Bebeto------------ Sosa---------


    http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1989/07/19/pagina-31/1198917/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen


    Will later on get to the Don Balon info.
     
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  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I thought Capurro was rated as the tournament's best left back. I agree that Bebeto and Sosa were the best two players of the tournament.
     
  17. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    By which source was Capurro voted?

    Sosa is beyond dispute and Bebeto was viewed as some revelation. The question remains who were the top 3? Big names such as Romario and Francescoli failed to impress, while previous Copa America stars like Maradona or Valderrama were disappointments this time.
     
  18. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Romario was impressive, the issue with him was that Lazaroni did not start him off the bat instead preferring flops such as Balthazar and a couple of others whose name I can't recall. When Romario was finally given the chance,he came through big, with great matches against Argentina (nutmegging Maradona) and Uruguay, scoring the match winner and the goal that gave Brazil its first senior trophy since Pele retired from the NT.

    I would say top three: Bebeto, Sosa and Caniggia. But Romario would be there had he played more matches.
     
  19. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Romario was a starter from the beginning but failed to impress in the group stages, especially against minnows such as Venezuela. He did score in pivotal matches in the final phase where he picked it up, but his performances were inconsistent, evidently overshadowed by other attackers in the competition, which is why I have not seen him make any all-star team.

    As for Caniggia, he scored the only goals for Argentina (all in the first phase) but his displays were inconsistent, as was all of Argentina. But I'll get into that later on.
     
  20. gilmour86

    gilmour86 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Its true, Romario was not impressive in the group stage. Bebeto and Sosa were great from the beginning until the end. However, Romario was the key in the most important matches in the final phase. 1 goal and an assist for Bebeto in the game against Argentina; the crucial goal for the title against Uruguay; and 1 goal against Paraguay, all in the final phase. Bebeto was voted as 3rd best player in the world and Romario as 7th by World Soccer Magazine, I think that great edition of Copa had some influence on this.
     
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  21. gilmour86

    gilmour86 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    #21 gilmour86, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
    I think you confused a bit about the Lazaroni issue. Actually it happened in WC90. At Copa, Romario was benched only in one game in the initial phase. On Lazaroni choices in the WC90, I saw an interesting interview of Bebeto once. He said that during that WC he asked Lazaroni about his chances to become a starter, the coach replied him with:"well, Bebeto, in my head your partner is Romario, not Careca, so its Romario-Bebeto or Careca-Muller in my head." Then Bebeto: "coach, Romario is not even fully fit, what chance he has to make the start eleven over Careca?". And genius Lazaroni: " Sorry, Bebeto". Some people say that actually was Careca that conviced Lazaroni that Muller was his perfect partner, because they knew each other from their time playing together for São Paulo. Lazaroni was a joke of a coach and very detrimental for Bebeto that time.
     
  22. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #22 leadleader, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
    I think Valderrama definitely gets a harsh or disproportionate criticism for his 1989 Copa. He was arguably one of the best two players on the pitch vs Brazil (albeit Brazil did have both Bebeto and Romario on the bench, but Bebeto played some minutes if memory serves me well, albeit again I don't remember exactly how many minutes Bebeto played). Valderrama also had a very good game vs Venezuela (albeit that's not saying much), and again produced a few good moments in the game vs Paraguay (a game where he was overall rather average, to be fair).

    In my opinion, Colombia simply was overall/collectively not playing to their potential, but I did see Valderrama offering reasonably good performances; definitely not a "disappointment" in my opinion, relative to what I consider realistic or "not disappointing" (for a player with Valderrama's limitations) given the form of some 6 or 7 of the Colombia players whom were playing well below their potential. In a nutshell: I think it's unrealistic to expect Valderrama 1987 again, when Colombia was simply not offering the platform needed for such a level of performance.

    The video below shows a goal-pass by Valderrama to make it 1-0 (vs Brazil), and a nutmeg by Valderrama (on Brazil's Branco).

     
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  23. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Yeah, he was basically measured mostly for what he had produced in the previous tournament and Colombia were criticized because a lot more was expected from them.

    I will get into the details of each team in some weeks because I'll be away for some time.
     
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  24. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Basically, I think that James Rodriguez at Copa America 2015 was a disappointment. Whereas with Valderrama at CA 1989, I think he performed reasonably well (not great, mind you) relative to how difficult it was to be great within the context of a team that was clearly playing below their potential.

    Great thread by the way.
     
  25. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I thought Romario had been bench from the start at CA89, and of course he was a bench player at WC90 although that was heavily influenced by losing fitness to an injury.

    Bebeto should have asked to start over Muller, not Careca who was playing at world class level at Napoli at the time. I believe Careca and Bebeto had been Brazil's starting forward line at the Conmebol qualifiers with much success, especially in the tough matches against Chile.
     

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