Copa America Centenario 2016: General Discussion [R]

Yea and Tata was playing against Chile while Sabella was playing against very strong Holland and Germany's team. Tata has a full squad and a fully fit Messi unlike Sabella who's forwards line came into tournament after strings of injury. I understand your point but Germany outplayed us after Sabella replaced Lavezzi with Kun.. however, the clearcut chances belong to Argentina until Gotze's goal.

If Pipita scores that easy chance... we would have dominate the game like in all previous game. Then Aguero had 2 chances... one of them he could have pass it to Mecardo but he shoot to the sky twice instead.

Look at it this way... if we have a manager who does better tactically then Tata, it wont make any difference if those guys couldnt score with only goalkeeper to beat from close range. That's my point.

 

People making fun of these pictures on other forums. For me, these pictures show humanity more than anything else. I am proud of you, Messi and Argentina.

Let's go get this thing in 2018. I have faith.

 

Fu(k them.

 

Lol lol lol

 

You got to read this:

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/587/...his-argentina-fans-beautiful-plea-for?ICID=OP



Teacher Yohana's letter made waves across Argentina, as she called on Barcelona star Lionel Messi to reconsider his decision to retire Lionel Messi's retirement from the Argentina national team has turned the country upside down in the past few days, with an entire nation stunned by the news after Chile beat them in the Copa America final.

Argentina president Mauricio Macri, Buenos Aires mayor Horacio Rodriguez Larreta and football god Diego Maradona have begged for the Barcelona forward to change his mind, but perhaps the most moving message of all has come via Entre Rios teacher Yohana.

Her passionate plea quickly went viral among the millions of Argentina supporters desperate for Messi to reconsider his international retirement.

The letter in full:

"Lionel Messi,

"You will probably never read this letter. But I will write it all the same, not as a football fan but as an Argentine teacher, in this profession that I chose and love as you love your own.

"I could write to you about your marvelous talents in the most popular sport in our country, the pleasure it gives me to be one of the generations lucky enough to see you show off the magic in your boots, or about the admiration you awake in every country in the world. But that would only serve to repeat cliches. Instead I will write for your help in a much tougher challenge than you have ever faced, I want you to help me in the difficult mission of moulding the behaviour of those kids who see you as a football hero and an example to follow.
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"No matter how much love and dedication I put into my work, I will never receive from my students that incredible fascination they feel for you. Now they will see their biggest idol give up. I beg you not to give the satisfaction to mediocre people; those who, frustrated by the thousands of dreams they didn't achieve aim their resentment at a football player, those who speak about the rest because it is free and easy to do so. You are hearing this from a teacher who, despite the distance between us, deals with that nasty Argentine habit of thinking somebody else's job is simple, that scoring goals is as easy as building a house or a future for a person. It is that sick compulsion to bring someone down, or turn into idiotic judges that slam with contempt and arrogance the performance of others, only valuing victories and writing off mistakes as failures, those same errors that make us human and keep us learning.
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"Please do not quit, don't let my students think that this country only cares about winning and coming first. Do not show them that no matter how successful you are in life, you will never manage to keep the rest happy and, worse still, do not make them feel they must live to make others happy. Do not send them this mistaken message that, despite overcoming so many adversities, fighting from a young age to become the triumphant man you are today, all that is tainted by the critics of those envious people who deep down would kill to be like you.


"If something like you, who had your family at your side, who has a hefty personal wealth and the support of so many people, cannot do it, how can they believe they are capable of carrying on having to face so many battles, day-in, day-out?
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"I do not talk to them about how wonderfully Messi plays football, but of the thousands of free kicks he practised to manage to put the ball in the angle beyond the reach of any goalkeeper. I tell them of the Messi who put up with countless painful injections to keep chasing his dream; the Messi who with all the money he has earned helps other kids like him with their own difficult situations; I tell them of the adult Messi, the man who raised a family and deals with the most important job in the world, being a good parent; the Messi who stops a fan who mobs him in the middle of a match from being harmed; the Messi who can even miss a penalty because our faults make us humans, and that shows them even the greatest of all time is imperfect as well.
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"Do not give up, do not put the shirt with our country's colours away, because when you pull the shirt on you become an Argentine that represents us all. Not all of us await medals and cups to feel wonderfully proud you are one of us. Please do not make my students feel that coming second is a defeat, and that the value of a person depends on how full his trophy cabinet is, or that losing a game is to lose glory.

"My students need to understand that the noblest heroes, be they doctors, soldiers, teachers or football players, are those who give the best of themselves for the good of others, even knowing that nobody will value them more for that, knowing that if they do manage a triumph it will belong to everyone while if they fail it will be their failure alone. Even so they keep trying. But above all, they have heroism and courage, when they fight and overcome losses with bravery and integrity, even with the whole universe saying we will never make it.
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"And one day they will enjoy the greatest victory: they will feel happy being themselves, with the demons they had to face in order to make it no longer an issue.
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"Everybody talks about balls, I believe in the strength of your heart."
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Argentina didn't make the semis in 2010, Goal. /nitpick

That's a real good letter though. I still won't blame him if he doesn't come back, but I would like that message to be sent to the haters. I would like to remind him that here in USA at least people were showering him with love. Chanting his name. Just wanting to see him play for 30 minutes even and completely appreciative of his performance. Hopefully he can reflect on that a bit and not just the spoiled whiners hundreds of miles away.

 

Can someone explain what the mess is with the AFA? When will AFA finally have an election? What does the super liga mean?

 

There are plenty of people throughout the world that love Messi, including countries within South America. There are plenty of Brasilians who rooted for Messi to win this title. He is really loved there. I recall fans chanting his name in Brasil in a WCQ some years back. Like I said he is loved, the same way Ronaldinho was and is loved in Argentina. He is more than a once in a generational player. If this is it, than all we can say is thank you and move on.

Those that are hating on him and enjoying this loss are probably Real Madrid/Ronaldo "fans". It is these so-called "fans" who have no association to Real Madrid other than them picking the club to choose and they have no idea of what it means to truly to have a club that they are connected to. For them, Messi losing is almost as good as one of their idols winning. That is a sad life to have but it is the internet it and it is filled with trolls.

But even within the Madrid press, they showed respect and sympathy towards Messi, maybe these supposed fans should take note.

 

I don't get where all this need to "protect messi" and "stop criticizing messi" is coming from. All the criticism that surrounded Messi for years that he felt more Catalan or that he couldn't do it without Xavi and Iniesta has long ended. Like @Burr said, it was painfully obvious that Argentina was the "home" team in every match they played, not just because of the thousands of Argentines/their descendants who live in the US or who traveled there for the copa, but because of the people who have no connection to Argentina, but have an admiration for Messi, and also for Argentine football as a whole. As @SupaMario said, Messi is hugely popular in Latin America. From Brazil to Mexico to Ecuador, people are nuts about Messi. A simple search of posts on twitter or Facebook or instagram and you'll see thousands of people backing messi.

Now, in Argentina as a whole, Messi is hugely popular. As one of the few posters that actually lives here, I can tell you there is no one in my office, in the gym, in any restaurant or cafe, or anywhere I've been the last few days where people are bashing Messi. Messi is absolutely massive. There are so many Barcelona fans in Argentina now. On Monday, Todo Noticias, which is the biggest news channel here in Argentina, not sports news, but news news, ran a poll where 84% of 20,000 voters said they were more saddened by Messi retiring from the national team than they were about losing the match. And that doesn't mean the other 16% weren't saddened by Messi's retirement, but that they were just more crushed by another defeat to such an inferior team as Chile (a country that there is a bigger rivalry with than brasil)

Sure, there may be a few idiots out there criticizing messi, or a few internet trolls, but lets stop with the whole "protect messi" "stop criticizing messi" because its a myth. No one bar a few morons on big soccer and idiots on twitter bashing him, but no serious pundit out there is bashing him. Messi is the most beloved player on the planet by a wide margin. Maybe even the most beloved athlete on the planet. I'd probably bet he is.

The only people criticizing him are Maradona- who lets not forget for all those Maradona worshippers, never won a Copa America. in fact, he never even made a final. Argentina won 2 Copas without him. In 1990, he did nothing in the world cup other than his assist to Caniggia. It was a poor world cup from maradona and don't give me any BS that he was injured. He had one moment of magic, nothing more. He also missed a penalty that could have been devastating again Yugoslavia, a match in which we played well over an hour against 10 men and couldn't make a shot on goal. Messi in 2014> Maradona in 1990. There is no comparison. Argentina reached the Final in 1990 thanks to Goychochea and rugged defense led by Ruggeri and then Caniggia's timely goal against Italy.

I also don't think Messi is done for the NT. For one thing, many players have retired from the NT, only to return. Riquelme did it. Maradona himself, who many people claim loved Argentina shirt more than anyone, also retired. Both came back. Zidane retired from France after Euro 2004, and was back by World Cup 2006. Luis Figo retired from Portugal, and like was back before the world cup. There are many other cases I'm sure I can't remember.

Messi is retiring more due to the AFA and their complete incompetence and corruption. These guys are top athletes. Unless you actually follow argentine football and not just argentine players who play in Europe, you can't understand the corruption that is involved here. The AFA currently has no president. The league season is supposed to start in less than a month and as of now no one has any idea the format of the championship. for now, Martino will remain in charge because there is no one to fire him! There is no AFA president right now.

So Messi clearly wants this shit solved. He also probably wants improvements in a number of facets of what it entails to play for Argentina. He also probably wants a bit of time off. I don't care how much you love playing for your country, its got to be a huge pain in the ass to fly 15 hours to BsAs every month to play a game, then go to godforsaken places like Paraguay or Bolivia to play games when the AFA won't guarantee you chartered flights or top class hotels. Especially when he could just stay in Barcelona and relax and recover with his two young kids.

There also the issue with Adidas. Messi is by far their biggest fish. Barcelona is sponsored by Nike and I believe they just signed a new contract, so no chance of a switch there. Without Messi, Adidas is gonna take a huge, huge hit. Every Adidas commercial with Messi has him wearing the Argentina shirt. What do they do if he no longer plays for Argentina?

Messi will be there main man in their marketing plans leading up to Russia 2018, just like he was before SA 2010 and Brasil 2014. He'll be in the center of everything. Adidas is one of FIFA's main sponsors. The make the ball for the competition and have their advertising all over every stadium. They'll have a word in Messi's ear and get him to come back. I fully expect Messi to be there captaining Argentina in Moscow. I'd be more shocked if he didn't.

 

Excellent post. I agree with all of it.

It's funny because I was talking to my dad about it earlier and he brought up the sponsorship angle, too, which I hadn't thought of until then. Not only Adidas but I think Pepsi has him as well. Right now it's up to the team, and AFA cleaning up its act. Messi deserves a break and stronger seleccion to come back to.

 

Wonderful post, River.

 

Maradona was great against Italy too, bossing the best defense in WC history.

Anyhow, Messi will be back for the NT this time next year.

 

best post I have read in a while rivergaucho. Explains a lot about AFA, i don't follow the local league and had no idea things are this bad

 

I will try to answer but I welcome others to correct me.

First it depends what you mean by the mess. The most urgent mess having to do with the election is that they managed to have a tied election for president even though there was supposed to be an odd number of votes, lol. That and the whole mess with what happened with all the Futbol Para Todos money is what is at the forefront, with the government involved as well trying to figure it out. For now FIFA has sent a committee to take over AFA affairs but I don't know when the new election will be. With the interim president Segura stepping down, nobody is in charge as @RiverGaucho alluded to.

As for the Superliga, I think the easiest way to explain it is a way of bringing the Argentine league more in line with how things are done in Europe. 20 teams, straight relegation, no promedio tricks. More TV revenue for the teams in the A. August to June schedule. Stuff like that. Obviously the big clubs are more in favor of this than the others. Here's a summary I found in Spanish.

http://www.ole.com.ar/futbol-primera/vienen-Liga_0_1572442885.html

 

One of the big things the Super Liga would do is that it would mean the TV companies would pay the clubs directly. The way things currently run, the TV companies paid the AFA, who then distributed the money. This is how Grondona stayed in power for decades. The clubs and their presidents had to do his bidding or he wouldn't release the money. There is so much money that has been owed to the clubs that Grondona and his cronies withheld and either hid under their mattresses or smuggled to off shore bank accounts. The level of corruption in the AFA is directly linked with the Kirchner government that robbed Argentina dry over the last 12 years. (The Kirchner government along with Grondona created Futbol Para Todos)

 

This fantastic photo (Messi vs 9 Chileans!) explains the Copa América final. Who shot it? pic.twitter.com/tts3rBbGP3

— Subscribe to GrantWahl.com (@GrantWahl) June 29, 2016

 

I shouldnt be a draw if Messi, Pipita, Kun and Palacio scores their chances.... we have the better clearcut chances in last 3 finals and could have avoided ET let alone a shootout. Before Gotze's goal, its the same... we have the better chances even though they created more.

Chile only threatened once which was well saved by Romero and that was it! Messi had his chance from open play and freekick , so did Kun and Higuain. Why cant it just went it for once and there wouldnt be any discussion.

 

River, I loved your post, but you don't like Maradona????

Man, I thought Argentina was Maradona.
You don't have to dislike a legend to like another one.

I will tell you something...Fernando Di Napoli said this ---- that when Maradona stepped onto the pitch, we (Napoli) thought we would never lose. Even though we lost matches, when he was there, we just felt we could not lose.

I remember before the UEFA Cup semifinal against Bayern Munich, Napoli players admitted they were scared. So Maradona went out there, at Bayern's home, in Germany, and started juggling his now world famous ball routine. 70,000 fans' eyes were transfixed on Maradona, forgetting their own team's players. When the Napoli players saw this, they could not believe it. It was Maradona's way of saying, "I am here...so no need to worry."

When Germany equalized in the World Cup final in 86, Valdano told Maradona at the center circle, what are we going to do now? Maradona said, "Win!"

There has been no sportsman in the history of sports that had Maradona's mentality that I am going to take on the world single-handedly, and win.

Not even Michael Jordan.

Maradona was something else. Maybe Messi has surpassed Maradona as a footballer, but Maradona's strength mentally was equivalent to 10 Mascherano's and 10 Simeone's put together.

Also, Maradona has a great World Cup in 1990; he was stupendous against Brazil and Italy, and good in all other games except Yugoslavia and Germany. We were cheated out of that World Cup.

.....or do you not like Maradona because he is Boca?

 

Focus on the trash organization AFA. They're what's the problem with Argentinian football. They're like a cyst, you have to dig deep to remove the infection. Until that is done, Argentina will never win anything.

Maradona is a piece of shit for what he said. The old man should sit the ******** down and shut the ******** up, because his glory was 30 years ago, after that he's been a fat joke.

Messi is everything what modern day Argentine football represents, and for him alone I feel sorry he didn't win anything.

It breaks my heart he still hasn't won anything and he's left with incompetent people like Tata, Rojo or Higuain.

 

Agreed. Argentina lost three CA finals on PKs and the WC with 3 minutes left in extra time. It's a cruel injustice for this team not to have had better luck in at least one of these finals. That is what is lost in trying to rationalize these results. Fortune played a major factor and Argentina were just incredibly unlucky. On top of that in these finals, Argentina had the better most clear chances as well (Higuain X3, Palacio, Aguero).

 

This says alot about the mental toughness of Nicolas Otamendi who without a doubt is the tourney's CB MVP. His interceptions, game reading, and focus kept Sanches/Vargas at bay. An absolute beauty to watch. Also, RFM had himself a solid tourney as well but the pairing of Otamendi/Masche at CB is lethal when it comes down to interceptions and game reading. Sanches was moved to the left side because he was completely shut down near Otamendi. Unfortunately for him, at that time, Masche was moved back to CB and covered the left side which resulted in Sanches being subbed off.

My issue with Tata is that he eants to play possession football and places Masche (Counter attacking DM) in midfield. This system needs a very good passer to play DM. A guy who can make deep passes that can open up play and as much as I luv Masche, hes just not that guy and is more suited at CB. Also, his system relies on box-to-box midfielders, instead, hes playing DMs as box-to-box!!!! Which is why its easy as heck for defenders and opposing DMs to collapse on Messi because there are no attacking threats cutting in from midfield. His only box-to-box selection was Agusto and no backup. Lamela was another box-to-box option but apparently hes viewed as a winger by Tata. The guy is soo clueless to the point where he considers the best dribbler after Messi in Argentina (Dybala) a #9!!!! Im just glad he doesnt view Dybala as a CB