News: Copa America 2024

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Ombak, Jan 27, 2023.

  1. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I feel like we've gotten in the box so many times from the middle, behind their fullbacks ... that we really should have scored. I think the team has done well in that aspect. But that final touch / luck has been missing tonight.
     
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  2. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    Georgia
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm going to admit in front of you all, as someone who absolutely was against Neymar returning to the NT....I eat crow. We need him back.

    I just hope he comes back healthy and focused for 2026.
     
  3. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    The decision making of some of our players is just ridiculous
     
  4. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Dafuq is that not a foul moron ref ???
     
  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Wow... Bruno Guimarães can't miss that. Brilliant by Savio, poor shot by BG.
     
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  6. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Big miss from BG.
     
  7. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Savio has been the only source of creativity this half
     
  8. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    Georgia
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Endrick right next to Paqueta who insists on kicking the ball himself......
     
  9. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    For all the chances, only 3 shots on target and 1 off the post.
     
  10. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    Georgia
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    If Dorival has guts, he drops Vini and Raphinha and starts Endrick and Savio moving forward.

    Also why in the world did the likes of Andreas Periera and Douglas Luiz (who is known to score goals) get not even a minute of game time while Martinelli who can't even start for Arsenal get included?
     
  11. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As bad as Vini may have been, I wouldn't have subbed him out. That's a bad move by Dorival IMO. He should have gone 4-2-4 at that point.
     
  12. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Dorival setup was wrong from the start, also his subs were far too late as well but this result ain’t completely on him. The second half was infuriating to watch with some of the decision making
     
  13. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Disciplined match by Costa Rica, poor match by Brazil. Combining at times, but never really threatening as much as we should have at times. Second half subs only Savio was really effective.

    Vini needs help on the left. He's all alone while Paqueta and Rodrygo are combining elsewhere.

    Poor choices at times, but there was enough to win on a different day.

    I hope we won't focus on the ref and the offside goal, but those aren't things we can fix, and they were fine. The ref let the players play, and you can't whine and expect him to change his approach.

    Disappointed with the late subs and lack of variation by Dorival.
     
  14. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    This goalless draw highlights both some evolution but also serves as a warning.

    Dorival Jr. has now led Brazil in five matches, and Brazil is unbeaten in all. Brazil achieved a wide margin of superiority over Costa Rica in possession and bombarded the opponent's net, but it doesn't matter if there are no goals.

    The evolution I allude to is the aggressive and persistent spirit shown by Brazil against Costa Rica. Against the U.S, Brazil didn't try as hard throughout the match as we saw tonight.

    The warning is that this is a reminder of how much work Dorival has ahead of him. Paraguay, the next opponent, is far from its better days (1998 World Cup, 2009-2010), but it is still going to present a tougher challenge than Costa Rica did; Paraguay gave Colombia a serious test in the second half of their match tonight.

    Another poster wrote a bit earlier that he is seeing Tite-esque behavior - a reluctance to make bold lineup changes. What I find maddening as a fan yet struggle to reconcile given these managers have both played as professionals and have experience as club managers (with Dorival having been quite successful in recent years) is that they paint a picture which we fans are likely to misunderstand even as they have their rationales for their roster decisions. Celito wrote earlier SporTV anchormen are annoying, but one of them said at halftime to remove a volante and to have Endrick play. When that midfielder was finally taken out late in the second half, Brazil's volume de jogo grew and the dominance over Costa Rica came back. Had Dorival done this at halftime, would Brazil have still drawn?

    I believe the team is in the right path and that Brazil will show further evolution on Friday against Paraguay. But Dorival of all people should remember what happened on the last occasion Brazil played this tournament on U.S. soil. Granted, the Peruvian goal which eliminated us should have been called off. But it'd be rather damaging to Dorival's political capital if he can't get us to the elimination stages. This is perhaps too gloomy, but anything can happen during 90 minutes.
     
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  15. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Also, Dorival now has the curious distinction of being the manager for Brazil on the first occasions Brazil ever draw both the U.S. and Costa Rica.
     
  16. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    There was definitely more than enough to win the game today. We've seen us play a lot worse than today.
     
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  17. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Uggh. I was not expecting this.
     
  18. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Agree with this overall.

    If I hear them focus on the ref and handball and offside, I will be worried, because that's the kind of entitlement that I consider unserious. You have to focus on what you can do, not rely on this idea you're always unfairly treated, which every cycle the players seem to latch on to.

    If I see changes for the next match, better decisions, better rhythm and change of pace, I'll see those as signs we're trying to improve and move in the right direction.

    In the post-match interviews (on the field still, not press conference) both Marquinhos and Paquetá focused on things we can control. Marquinhos acknowledged we need to get results, said we need to look at what was good, what was bad and work to improve. Paquetá said we need to do better with chances. No word (at least from what I heard quoted) about the ref etc, which is good.
     
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  19. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    Georgia
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm rewatching the game and have calmed down a bit. Definitely played better than I thought but we desperately need a killer at 9.

    Also hope the team goes through the game and see where better decisions could have been made in the final 3rd.
     
  20. ripalino

    ripalino Member

    Feb 26, 2013
    Sao Paulo
    Club:
    Fluminense Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I am completely frustrated with this team......This team has zero chances in next World Cup ( Maybe its too early to say this but I dont think any magic will happen in next 2 years )

    We still need Neymar to do magic for us when he "probably" wont be in the starting lineup for most of the good teams now .

    I know many Brazilian's will still be "Optimistic" but I feel bad for them ....Heartbreak is not a pleasant thing to endure.
     
  21. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    You're not the only Brazil supporter who feels this way, but after five matches, Dorival hasn't lost and he can't do miracles - not with what we have at the moment. The last time we had a new manager who brought drastic improvement was Tite, but look at the way he was treated by the media and by many fans.

    Dorival just entered the fray. We've written here repeatedly: CBF wasted an entire year after the 2022 World Cup; the people who replaced Tite and whom Dorival replaced did a very subpar job. Dorival is, as we say in Brazil, "juntando os cacos" - he is gathering the pieces of a broken item.

    For him to gather those cacos and to present a newly rebuilt item will not happen overnight. If this process means Brazil will be trophy-less until at least 2026 (or later), we have to endure the situation. It isn't just a managerial situation. We don't have the abundance of world class talent we had in the mid-late 1990s. It may be years before a Brazilian national team can deploy a starting XI similar in talent to Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, etc.
     
  22. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As Pep said , his job is to get his players in dangerous positions in the final third . After that it’s up to the players . I think Dorival did that yesterday . We infiltrated through the sides , through the middle , through the top … but either missed a shot or couldn’t find the right guy in the final pass . Vini put in quite a few balls (passes not random crosses) in the box where there could have been someone to take a shot .

    The problem sometimes with recovering the ball so quick in the midfield like we did for most of the game is that you don’t allow the other team to stretch out and get out of shape . So it can be a double edge sword if you’re playing a team that can bunker with a line of 5 in the back . Specially in a narrow field as these fields are . If you steal the ball deeper close to the goal then you can create a bit more chaos . Don’t remember if we did much of that yesterday .
     
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  23. Estuardo A. Lopez

    Jul 9, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Savio (Savinho?) for Raphinha is a no-brainer for me.
    I also didn't like Danilo as right back so Yan Couto should be given a chance.
    Against a better team (Paraguay? Colombia?) Bruno Guimaraes and Joao Gomes will be overwhelmed.
     
  24. manimal

    manimal Red Card

    Dec 23, 2018
    I watched almost every game in the Euros so far.... And it pains me to say but.... Brazil NEEDS a new coach and midfielders as soon as possible. I dont see any progression under dorival. Any midtable European team will beat this brazil with ease. I saw yesterday spains B team which never played together before, dominating their oppenents with a clear game plan. You dont see anything from that with dorival. Sometimes they cant even string 3 passes together and look clueless. Its just sad
     
  25. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Is this realistic, though?

    I won't deny that there are European teams playing fluid, flowing, attractive attacking football in the way Brazil is "supposed" to do because Brazil is Brazil. I will likewise not deny that Brazil needs much improvement.

    But within the realm of actual possibilities, can Dorival be fired this quickly?

    The last time Brazil went through a succession of managers in a short period, Brazil was in much dire straits than now. Young fans claim this is the worst Brazil of all time, but they don't remember the struggles Brazil had in 2002 WCQ. Luxemburgo was fired after the 2000 Olympics, Émerson Leão was brought in (in part because Luxemburgo's Olympic team was embarrassingly eliminated by Cameroon despite having 2 more men in the Olympic elimination stage and because Luxemburgo had steadfastly refused to cap Romário for WCQ whereas Leão's one consistent strategy was to start Romário on every occasion).

    Leão was sacked, Scolari was brought in; Scolari likewise underwent tremendous pressure because Brazil was eliminated by Honduras in the 2001 Copa América. There was much pressure for Scolari to be fired. Thankfully, CBF did one thing right then and that was to keep Scolari. One year later, and Cafu lifted the FIFA World Cup trophy in Japan.

    I don't think that, at the moment, it is realistic for a new manager to be brought in, and even if he does arrive, will he lead Brazil into becoming the team playing the amazing soccer you've watched at Euro 2004? Who will do this? Mourinho? Guardiola? Ancelotti? Wenger? Ferguson? Which truly world-class manager is willing and available to take over Brazil now?

    If there is no such option, and if the only two other Brazilian/Brazil-based alternatives who could potentially handle the job - Tite and Abel Ferreira - are committed to their clubs and won't leave for the national team - then there's no point in demanding a new manager, because it's not going to happen.

    It appears we're stuck with Dorival and Dorival, whether we like it or not, needs time to implement his ideas so the team improves. The goal right now is to build a better team which finishes among the top 6 (and hopefully in the upper echelons of that) in CONMEBOL's WCQ tournament. Playing beautiful soccer would be great, but that's not the most important goal.

    I watched the Tragédia do Sarriá, and as painful as that was, that led to 1994 and even to 2002, albeit to a lesser extent. And remember, Brazil lacks the amazing talent it fielded in 1998 and 2002 - and even in 2006. A sudden managerial change won't make these players start playing like the Spain of 2008-2012, Netherlands 1974, or France 2018.
     
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