Copa America 2024 Discussion

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by soul24rage, May 10, 2024.

  1. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Agreed, especially with the pressing scheme. Our 2 deep midfielders in the build up phase is Enzo and RDP and we don't know how Enzo is physically wise after his surgery and RDP's passing and ball control is too inconsistent for my liking. I'm honestly more leaning to have Paredes being the starter instead of Enzo (unless Enzo really does well in the friendly matches coming up)

    Gareca for Chile is another that we should be wary about and Chile has this annoying tendency to step up their game in a big game. I do sometimes wonder if we need another Saudi Arabia type of defeat to keep our players on their toes, but that won't be good for our heart lol.
     
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  2. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  3. Loco

    Loco BigSoccer Yellow Card

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We've seen Angel Correa. . . a nice player with a compelling background story. Had a good year at Atletico, but playing behind Morata and Griezman has limited his playing time. He finished with 11 goals in all competitions. ehhhh

    Whereas, Carboni has a "high cealing" - if we are going to take a player as the "Julian Alvarez spot of Copa 2021", I think Carboni makes a lot of sense. If Carboni is not used in Copa America but AFA planning to use him at the Olympic, then that is going to depend on what Inter wants to do with him. If Carboni is going to be loaned out again or sold (which could happen), then he won't be allowed to play in the Olympics. That's why I would rather take him to Copa
     
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  4. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Super excited for Argentina for this Copa. As someone who lives in Canada, I do think our national team is quite good and shouldn't be underestimated but Argentina should have a clear upper hand.

    Is this going to be Messi's last international tournament? Would be amazing to go out on top with a threepeat internationally.
     
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  5. Loco

    Loco BigSoccer Yellow Card

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi has not spoken much about the 2026 WC. . . but, he lives in the US, the World Cup is in the US, AND, Apples & Adidas are not subsidizing his MLS contract just to play MLS -

    Im 100% convince that Messi will play in 2026 (barring injury).

    But, it is very likely DiMaria's last tournament. Some real miracle type stuff would be required for DiMaria to play another tournament. Most likely, this the last tournament for DiMaria, Otamendi, Paredes, Guido Rodriguez, Marcos Acuna, German Pezzella, Tagliafico and Franco Armani. Some "big names" and some names that were more "contributors"

    As far as your home country, Canada, nobody is taking you guys lightly. Scaloni will be watching your game against the Dutch and the French this week, who I am sure will be very happy to provide you guys as much info as possible. Alphonso Davies is a beast. Your manager is going to make the mistake of not playing Davies in his natural position (Left-back, winger) and try to play him as a forward. But IMO, I fear Davies playing his natural position - we're very weak at wings.

    But let's see what happens this week.
     
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  6. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Let me get this straight... Canada can schedule friendlies v the Dutch and French, while we end up playing Costa Rica and El Salvador. The World Champions.... playing Costa Rica and El Salvador.

    Tapia needs to stop being such a greedy clown. If we win this, we will be paid out 16MUSD. Let's hope that'll be enough for the Fat Cats of the AFA to finally schedule some meaningful friendlies.
     
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  7. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Hope you're right about Messi playing at the 2026 WC. He still has a lot to give even if he's not clearly the best player in the world.
     
  8. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Honestly i don't like that idea of Messi in 2026 WC. Argentina will hit the transistation period post Copa this year. If you want to prepare for future, you better start it soon and have time and patient with it.

    Di Maria, Otamendi will retire from NT duty after Copa. Messi probably not but i think he should make it clear whether or not he want to take part in next World Cup. So the team can prepare.

    Not even to mention Scaloni's future. Everything should be decided soon after Copa if you don't want a struggle time ahead just because lack of time and preparation.
     
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  9. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If that's the case then Messi should have retired right after WC 2022 ended. Now he has played and scored goals in qualifier, helping the team to the top of the table, it would feels weird for him to just suddenly retired. Di Maria on other hand has already stated multiple times he will retire after Copa while Messi clearly hasnt decided his future on NT post Copa.

    Also, as already been mentioned, the WC will be in US where Messi now resided and play. If he hasnt retire professionally, do you think he'd content to just sit on the tribune watching the NT?
     
  10. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Agree. Does Garnacho do a lot of work? Haven't watched him much.
     
  11. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Granted I dont watch much of MU matches, but he does run alot and track back pretty often. Not to a degree of Di Maria, but he's similar to him in a way that he always shows determination. He's physically fast and strong for a 19 year old. Him coming in on second half will always be a problem for any defence.

    His dribble might not be as smooth as traditional Argentine forwards or wingers (Aguero, Tevez, Di Maria, Lavezzi, Saviola, Lautaro etc), but he's still have plenty of time to improve on that department.
     
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  12. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Except for the first sentence, I agree with your post. The transition must happen immediately after the Copa, regardless if the trophy is won or not and I'm sure Scaloni has the right idea for that. Armani, Pezzella, Otamendi, Acuna and Guido are the players that we need to phase out immediately after Copa. Good thing that qualifying for the World Cup is much easier this time around so that we can phase in the young players to the national team.

    Messi also needs to let Scaloni know fast if he is committed of playing the WC26 or not. I personally would like Messi in the WC26 and I still think that he is still at a good level to contribute.

    Plus, if we win the Copa 24, we compete in the Finalissima as well so a lot to compete too.
     
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  13. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was a bit more confident in Messi for '26 until the recent hamstring issues that took a while to resolve. I dunno how many more flare ups of that he can take.
     
  14. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    He can still be an impactful sub as very least. Like I said before, this would be the first WC since 2006 where he could play without the preasure of having to emulate Diego.
     
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  15. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    It isn't weird if this is Messi's last tournament. Probably want to end his NT career in high note. And like i said, you want your talisman/captain make his decision so you can prepare.

    If you want a good transistion time, you better start it soon and have time for it. Imagine Messi doesn't say anything, keep playing then boom, before World Cup, he can not play due to various reasons (injury, fitness...).
     
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  16. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Garna is perhaps in the mold of Caniggia. A player with a ton of speed(Garna is nowhere as fast Pájaro) who runs at defenders and cuts into the middle without a ton of dribbling skills.It is fair to say that Garna has zero trickery in his game. His game plan is to kick the ball in front of the defender and hope to outrun him. A good defender or a fullback will cut his angles.

    If you look at some of the Euro pibes, Paz, Carboni and I'll throw in Soulé as well even though he is not really a Euro-pibe, their games have that Argentine DNA. They play with trickery and skill to elude defenders. But I echo your sentiment, Garna needs to add this to his game because currently, he is somewhat limited in that aspect. The good news is that he can play with either foot.


    And I think that is why Scaloni did not include Dybala to the roster(One of the few reasons). He is already planning life without Messi. Dybala would've been a direct replacement. Now, he can see things when Messi is resting.
     
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  17. aerez

    aerez Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Dimaria had all that, plus skill, left footed shot, and more more. We are really going to miss his abilties. Carboni, Paz, and not even Soule have shown even close to that ability.

    Dimaria was light years ahead of them by 19.
     
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  18. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #143 SupaMario, Jun 4, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2024
    I agree but my point is Garna needs to add to his game. Some of the players I mentioned have those intangibles in their game.


    I followed him at Central and the word was that he had a lot of promise but he was reckless. The jury was always out about him but he was worth the gamble, he was raw but talented.


    As for our youngsters, let’s just see what they can offer us. Also, this love affair with ADM was not reignited until recently. Majority of the fans wanted him to be left out after 2018. Go back and read the comments all over the net or even this forum and you’ll see. He said he was hurt by being neglected but wanted to prove himself. We did not want anything to do with him. Then, he went onto score in three finals and now, we see him as irreplaceable. I guess that’s football.
     
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  19. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I believe the fans loves Di Maria back then up until WC 2014, but when he gets injured again in CA 2015 & 2016 and we happened to lost those finals aswell, its understandable the fans starts to get frustrated. I remember right after WC 2014 ended, we played Germany at Düsseldorf and he registered a goal + 3 assists.

    However, it was followed by bad performance throughout 2018 qualifier. Its not just him though, the whole team was bad under Bauza and Sampaoli. Aguero only registered 1 goal throughout 2018 qualifier while Otamendi was also heavily criticized.
     
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  20. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #145 Rattlehead, Jun 4, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2024
    What some people seems to ignore is the fact that Messi didnt leave European football because he's over the hill. He literally left Europe right after winning the WC + golden ball + Ligue 1. He also topped the assist table in both WC and Ligue 1. He did just fine in WC qualifier aswell, currently second top scorer. Messi has 9 goals + 4 assists in 14 CL matches with PSG and won 3 of the last 4 Ballon D'or. He went to US not because he's not good anymore, but because he has nothing left to conquer!

    Sure, he's getting weaker physically but a 70% Messi >>> 99% great players out there.
     
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  21. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007

    Exactly. This. I absolutely love Di Maria but there is a lot of revisionist history going on here.

    He was always talented, but had a tendency to run up blind alleys and not release the ball or make the right play always.

    He was extremely frustrating at times.

    Regardless, he was probably the most technically talented, after Messi, all those years.

    We have to let our youngsters pan out as they may.
     
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  22. Loco

    Loco BigSoccer Yellow Card

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It used to be that the national team that won the WC usually had the best player in the world - however, I don't think Messi was the best player in the world in 2022. In 2018, Mbappe was really good, but he was not the best player in the world. You have to go back to 2002 Brazil before you get to a NT that won a WC and arguably had the best player in the world.

    If anyone here points out that Italy won the WC and Cannavaro won the Balon d'Or in the same year - I will petition to ban you from this forum.

    But I digress, the secret sauce of this Argentina team is not centered around one player. Its about Dibu, its about Scaloni, and all the rest of the players that play their role. Messi is certainly a diminished player, but he is still better than 95% of the other players on the pitch - and that's good enough.
     
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  23. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Best team dont even always win major tournament. In league football you can lose to few strong teams (aka the big games) but still ended up with the title . CL knockout stage has two legs except for the final. At WC, one bad luck moment, one bad decision , its over.

    2006 Argentina was by far the best team in last few decades, but didnt win. Same thing with Brazil 1982.
     
  24. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Hungary '54
    Holland '74
    Brazil '82
    Argentina '06

    Examples of the best teams not winning the tournament
     
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