Copa America 2015 Argentina vs Paraguay

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by jimmi_moh, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    otamendi wasn't bad. Garay made the mistake during the first goal by being caught in no man's land instead of covering the shooter. Anyway, all the problems stemmed from leaving them too much space in midfield.
     
  2. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #77 Rattlehead, Jun 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
    Well I'd say no need to over panicking in term of result. When we reached final in 2004, we lost to Mexico at group stage.
    However my expectation has always been low when they announced Tata as the manager. Its obvious that Tata hasnt been on same level as Sabella and probably never will. Sabella style isnt pretty but his gameplan is always clear. Tata's team always look sporadic since the beginning just like his Barca.

    If you look at recent winners like Uruguay and Brazil, they dont always come up with best results at early stage but they made it count at knockout stage.
     
  3. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yea and in term of goal difference Uruguay is only 1 goal ahead for now so if we ended up with same point we could still top them. Its not end of day result, but performance like this dont give you confidence.

    I wont blame the forwards because we should have defended better and not giving easy goals like that but I noticed since first friendly that Tata's team tend to do that (like the 2 goals allowed against Germany and Brazil) . If you scored more than once and still failed to win, how many goals do you expect from the frontlines? Hattrick from Messi every single match ?

    Think about Sabella's team at 2014 World cup. In round 16 we didnt conceided for 120 minutes and was rewarded with that late goal. In quarterfinal, we scored just once and gave Belgium a defensive clinic, we won.
     
  4. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We need to find a middle ground,sure we didn't concede many goals under Sabella, but the goals also dried up, we scored 2 during the entire knockout stage during the world cup. Under Tata we are too open. He needs to sort it out, hs substitutions today were ridiculous. Doesn't matter about drawing the game as long as we learn from the mistakes.
     
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  5. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yea but which one yielded better result? Sabella's team didnt struggle to score in qualifier. If the frontlines were out of shape during the tournament , it wasnt his fault. For intense, we have 3-4 good chance inside normal time against Germany and planted nothing, how do you blame the manager when the players are the one that failed? Also, Di Maria didnt feautered in last 2 matches which we failed to score.

    The game against Switzerland and Belgium are good example of scoring less but still winning the game. Look at Holland and Germany goalscoring prowess, these two thrashed Spain, Brazil & Portugal but never really looked threatening against Sabella's defence. With a talent like Messi, Aguero and Di Maria, we will win the game as long we build a solid defence.
     
  6. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    Zabaleta should be fit for Tuesday's game; thank God.

    But Biglia might still be missing. I like Banega and think that he is the more talented of the two.
     
  7. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There is little point in keeping talking about Sabella because he's gone. Its about the here and now.
     
  8. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A defensive line is a unit. When a couple of members of that unit go wandering and one appears not to exist ie Roncaglia (count the times he was walked past with ease especially after his needless booking) the centrebacks get dragged out. Masche was dragged out several times too.

    Otamendi had a very good game when asked to defend such as the block and tackle on Santa Cruz, the interception on a three on four breakaway.

    That is shocking to see not just once but three times Martino unable to order his defensive unit to sit back allowing three on two, five on three. Brazil love that sort of situation and are better at finishing those.

    Martino isn't a bad coach but he made several glaring errors last night. His style favours the counter attack yet as Pekerman points out he failed to stick (ie wait for Paraguay to come on while retaining a deeper defensive line and something like Biglia for Banega) or go for the kill (in that sense he cannot be blamed for some poor finishing and a di Maria who was well below par).

    He really does not need to tinker with the team that much from last year. Otamendi for Dimichelis, keep 2 defensively minded midfielders, Pastore to take Higuain's role in the fantastic four and Tevez as a substitute for di Maria/Aguero. A pity Dybala isn't around.
     
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  9. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Personally I would have taken Icardi rather than Tevez. I know he is a dick as a person but he would have offered us something different upfront.
     
  10. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #85 Rattlehead, Jun 14, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
    Pipita's time as a starter pretty much over after this tournament. That miss that cost us the World cup must have been in the back of his mind for a lifetime. Its up to him whether he would fix that within next 3 weeks or the likes of Dybala, Vietto and Icardi will take over soon or later.

    Tevez cant be effective playing supporting role. He was dominant at City and Juventus because he's leading the attack. He played creative role like Messi did for Barcelona so placing him as finisher, he wont excel.

    The key to win this tournament would be fixing the defensive unit and then our forwards needs to be clinical and in this case only the players themselves who can fix it. But yesterday we hit two goals, in another day that would be a victory if wasnt defensive error.
     
  11. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    For all our much vaunted attack we struggle to finish chances, even yesterday it took a horrendous back pass and a penalty for us to score, we have to be far more clinical.

    As for Higuain, in a footballing sense, I don't think he will ever get over that miss in the world cup final.
     
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  12. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #87 Rattlehead, Jun 14, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
    To be fair though , its still unrealistic to expect them scoring 3-5 goals every game though. No team could ever do that. In other words, miss chances is going happen unless Messi or Kun grab a hattrick. But when you manage to score one or two, the team needs to make it count by not letting more goals. Germany beat USA, France, Algeria and Argentina only by a single goal but that's enough to win them the game.

    Game like yesterday could and should have been a 2-0 or 2-1 victory despite those miss chances.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Can't believe the ref didnt give a penalty for that, it happened right in front of him as well.
     
  14. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #89 Rattlehead, Jun 14, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
    Ref is Brazillian in case you're wondering.

    Team has started training for next game.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You guys upset about a tie with paraguay y yo tipo

     
  16. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If you guys are upset, please understand, Ramon Diaz is the winningest coach in the history of the biggest club in argentina. Of course we're happy. I can't get why you wouldn't be unless you all are bosteros
     
  17. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    LOL, here we go again... RiverGaucho vs. BS Argentina NT subforum, Pt. 16239 :D
     
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  18. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    LOL

    BTW do i want argentina to win this tournament? YES

    Is Ramon Diaz my man crush? YES So a draw was good for me
     
  19. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    You should know he won the Copa del Rey if that means anything.

    Also did not have Suarez, & injury issues that Enrique never once had to deal with.

    Maradona would not have coached better, maybe equally poorly.
     
  20. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Uruguay was VERY fortunate to beat Jamaica, and - as with TaTa at Barcdelona last year - the Charrua do NOT have Suarez.
     
  21. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Watched the second half after the match, went to the NASL Rodwdies last home game, then had to watch the Lightning losetheir Stanley Cup match in a ridiculous manner.

    Thought Otamendi played very well, he is far superior to anyone else who could play back there with Garay.

    Everything was going very well, lots of positive comments on here, UNTIL ... those ridiculous subs which made no sense, regardless of whatever tactical plan Martino may have had in his head at that time.

    To me the subs were done as they were for one reason only - to placate/keep content the other two #9s who did not start.

    TaTa, Newell's Legend, I love you - but you CANNOT let players you selected run the show. And I frankly doubt that Tevez and Higuain were busting TaTa's nads to get into the game.

    Hopefully he has learned his lesson with this. We shall see. someone up there made the comment that a coach would have to almost TRY to lose a game with this squad.

    Sometimes, TaTa, channel the ridiculously conservative Paraguay DT you used to be when circumstances dictate that is the prudent thing to do.
     
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  22. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It's not a bad thing to start a tournament on the slow side. There's no point peaking at this stage. I remember us hammering S & M in 2006 and everyone was raving about us and then we surrendered against Germany.
     
  23. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    uhmm that's bad example, we should have won that game vs germany. Peaking early would be like destroying everything in the 2002 qualifiers and exiting the first round.
     
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  24. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I don't know why people are saying Otamendi had a bad game, he was solid. To kill the game off, they needed to hold form, they continued to get stretched out on counters.

    After the game of the World Cup, it was talked about that Messi ripped into Sabella about playing a certain way and it changed after. After yesterday's game, Romero said, "We played the way Tata wanted us to play" I have a feeling the team doesn't trust Tata's play. He brought in Tevez and Pipita, that made nooooo sense. Not to mention they were both terrible coming on. Get your stuff together Tata. Guy brought so many offensive minded players, he has no clue what to do.

    After this tournament is over, I hope I never, ever see the likes of Tevez, Pipita, Romero again. The first goal, Romero was so out of position, it's unreal. Pipita, can't even run anymore, unless he is chasing a slice of pizza. Tevez can't hit the ball into the net from 3 feet away.
     
  25. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    He lost to Madrid in the final, they were missing Cristiano too
     

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