Copa America 2015: Argentina vs Jamaica Group B

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by jimmi_moh, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Maradona scored and assisted 10 goals and was involved in 12 out of 14 Argentina goals in that tournament. He made 90 dribbles in 1986 compare to Messi just 41 in 2014. No even close.

    And since I'm comparing player contribution, had Pipita scored that early chance, it was assisted Kroos not Messi.
     
  2. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well if I were to have Di Maria or Burruchaga on my throughball, I would choose Burruchaga.
    Don't give me any of that, Messi is more marked player than Maradona ever was, just because he doesn't go down everytime he's touched doesn't mean anything. Messi criticized Uruguay playing hard, and they did, so what, you expect him to say Uruguya played beautiful football?
     
  3. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Maradona had 53 succesfull dribbles in WC86, Messi 46 in WC14, and that against parked busses playing much more defensive.
     
  4. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Whats this "messi only plays for barcelona" bs? Are we back in 2008? Wheres the DeLorean?
     
    John Baldessari repped this.
  5. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    "In the second half our pace dropped, we played much slower," said Messi, who was making his 100th appearance for his country.

    "We did the same against Paraguay. We struggled to find spaces, the pitch was slower... I do not know why, but it is true that we ran slower.

    "In the knockout matches we can't let that happen again."


    http://www.goal.com/en/news/586/cop...372/messi-fires-warning-to-sluggish-argentina


    Well, only the player knows what's happening. Its more of the same when we lost to Brazil in recent friendly. We started well, missed series of chances and then dropped level after 30 minutes.

    How Argentina could only score 1-2 goals in every game in major tournament is anybody's guess. If you believe they've gave it all then not much can be expected. The number of chances blown is unreal. Other team dont have player come close to the level of Messi, Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, Pastore etc, yet they're able to score as many.
     
  6. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    When you miss an open chance in the beginning, it usually has a negative effect on the team, and the pressure builds on to players, and suddenly nothing goes in. Higuain vs Germany, Alexis vs Chelsea and Neymar vs ManC comes to mind.
     
  7. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Argentina got early goal against Serbia and Belgium but didnt made the players having more confidence afterward. The same here against Paraguay and Jamaica. Got early goals and still missing plenty after that.

    Spain in 2010 scored only as many as Argentina did in 2014 but Argentina never had as much possession as Spain when playing the big team so they need to score more using their great attacking players. The problem is, these players just couldnt do it for the NT and I'm afraid nothing can be fixed in this case.

    Sabella would have lifted the thropy if wasnt Palacio, Higuain and Messi missing those sitters. Yes its a sitter for Barca Messi standard, look at how to beat the same two players in CL semifinal.... whether its long range strike or dribbles, it ended in the back of the net.

    This game against Jamaica is technically a cakewalk, 82% possession plus countless chances.
     
  8. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    My god you guys are still doing the messi vs. maradona debate as @Christina99 says, are we in 2008? Please guys just let it go in the mean time

    [​IMG]
     
    locoxriver repped this.
  9. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL, yeah I suppose it's not worth getting into for the millionth time.

    There's just something off psychologically with Argentina. I don't know if it's pecho frio, or just too much pressure on them to finally produce a trophy. They rarely look comfortable after the first few minutes of the game. Not having much fun out there.
     
  10. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The passing of every major tournament highlights just how great Maradona was in 1986. It was truly miraculous and we will never see anything that comes close to it again
     
    Rattlehead, afar and John Baldessari repped this.
  11. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There's really not that much pressure on them. At all really. The media has kept their knives away. The fans were for the most part supporting, many people from the provinces of mendoza, san juan, etc. who were just happy to see the seleccion. If that game yesterday had been played in buenos aires the people would have been whistling and booing from the 30th minute of the second half onward

    If they were feeling the pressure they'd look tense and nervous. They look lackadaisical. They're not 100%
     
  12. Bocatino

    Bocatino Member

    Apr 18, 2007
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    No pressure on them? They win two games and draw one. Win the group and people are saying here that Brasil shows more passion? Brasil really? The team that lost 1-7 in at their own world cup and lost in the 3rd place game too. Is Neymar kicking and heading butting a player showing more passion or stupidity.
     
    Leon12 repped this.
  13. Bocatino

    Bocatino Member

    Apr 18, 2007
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    A Maradona doesn't happen anymore. Look at the last world cup winners. None of those teams had a gifted player like Maradona, Messi, Ronaldinho. They were solid teams built by a coach who had time to work with the players and build their strengths.

    Italy 2006= defence players who play in Serie A Juventus, AC Milan, Inter

    Spain 2010= La liga Barcelona/ Madrid

    Germany 2014= Bayern Munich

    What is Argentina greatest strength? What kind of football should the team play? Counter, position, fast pace, slow temple.

    Honestly I think the team needs to attack quicker. To much passing back and forth. We are not Barcelona.
     
    afar and John Baldessari repped this.
  14. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A Maradona happens once in a lifetime if you are lucky, Messi is a genius and one of the greatest players ever but has never come close to carrying Argentina to victory single handed.
     
  15. Bocatino

    Bocatino Member

    Apr 18, 2007
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Maradona didn't single handley win the world cup. He had moments of greatness like Messi did in the first round of the last world cup. Argentina had a style of playing back then. Carlos Bilardo coached that team from 1983-1990.

    That is what Argentina needs to do. Pick a coach and give him time to project a team and style of play. If we keep changing coaches all the time and it's always going to be the same story. Looking for that next Maradona to pass 5 players everygame and win us the game.

    Maradona is a blessing and a curse really.
     
    afar repped this.
  16. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    That is what I was saying.....that this was Jamaica, with the fact that Argentina was already qualified before the game even started. Let's judge Messi in this tournament when the knock-out stages start. He should know his legacy is on the line this tournament.

    Messi was himself against Atletico and Bayern Munich because he needed to be. He did not need to be himself against Jamaica.

    I got the feeling that even though Argentina wanted the second goal, all of the players were playing in second gear. They did not over-exert themselves, no one did.

    Plus, when Maradona got to the World Cups, he had played 40 games over a season. Messi comes into this tournament having played 60 games.

    Not excusing Messi not being able to reach Maradona in a major tournament, because what Maradona did in 1986 was beyond belief. Someone here, I think Pipiola, says that that was the greatest ever performance in ALL of sports, and I agree.

    Maradona also had the inner fight, me against the world mentality, that Messi does not have. That is why Maradona was able to lead Argentina to the 90 World Cup on a single leg.

    Nevertheless, Messi as a footballer in pure footballing terms, is at least equal to Maradona, if not better.
     
  17. John Baldessari

    Mar 21, 2015
    #117 John Baldessari, Jun 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
    James Rodriguez is actually getting criticism right now on Bein sport, Christian Vieri said: "James Rodriguez does not look like the same player we saw in the World Cup. He looks like a tired player physically and mentally giving it all for Real Madrid, where expectations are high for the full 90 minutes". I just think the players are genuinely tired, especially Messi who played more than any other player last season. He is starting to look tired again, hopefully he can find the strength to push even harder just for the tournament.
     
    afar repped this.
  18. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    This. Exactly this. It is just a proliferation of the club calendar recently that does not allow the players to be at peak condition for June tournaments.
     
  19. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Argentina had Bilardo 2.0 but with less personality to stand the pressure.

    Personally, I suspect that Messi got tired of the WC2014 style and was involved in sending Sabella packing and influential in Tata getting the job. Probably regretting it now.
     
  20. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #120 Rattlehead, Jun 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
    During Maradona's day, a player could get tackle 20 times per game. I already mentioned Messi was fouled less than a half time than Diego did in 1986 . Maradona was fouled 29 times up to the game against Brazil in World cup 1990. He was fouled 26 games against Italy in 1982. He still run his ass off trying to make it happen. Messi was sleepwalking in some games, even in major tournament, I dont know whether its stamina issue or he's just mentally down because his teammate aint playing at same level at his club teammate.
     
  21. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There will be no extra time in this copa and only 3 more games to be played instead of 4 like in World cup. Also Argentina needs extra time in 3 out of 4 matches at recent World cup so its no suprise that he was dead tired. Even the German was tired and misspassing alot in last quarter of the game.

    The other factor is, in 2014 Messi just recovering from ongoing thigh injury. He was also cricticized for sleepwalking when playing for Barcelona. He run only 6 km against Atletico madrid at one point. However, this is not the case this season since he's fully healthy and literally won Barca another treble and has direct contribution on all 3 final game.
     
    johnbarley2 repped this.
  22. John Baldessari

    Mar 21, 2015
    Yeah but that doesn't explain everything. Maradona likes to hold on to the ball for a long time so of course he will be fouled a lot. Di Stefano liked to touch the ball once and move on hence he was not fouled as much. I do wish Messi ran more though, it looks like the players are tired though. Look at James Rodriguez last performance. Hopefully this 5 day rest recharges him.
     
  23. John Baldessari

    Mar 21, 2015
    Yes, bottom line is that he needs to deliver. I don't think we can draw conclusions from this Jamaica game, lets wait for the KO rounds.
     
    Rattlehead repped this.
  24. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Most Barcelona players played tons of matches circa 2008-2012, 8 of their players started in 2010 final, they still have the energy , so are we going to use that fatigue excuse here? not to mention our players came into this tournament injury free. Zabaleta played less than 30 matches this season, Aguero and Di Maria played like 40 matches, every great footballer played just as many games. Garay only played 26 matches for Zenit and he's looking slow so far in this competition! nothing like his performance at the WC.
     

Share This Page