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Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by jimmi_moh, Jun 25, 2015.
ADIDAS QUALITY IS GREAT!!!
I was really convinced that somebody was going to get hurt last night. I understand a ref giving both sides the first ten minutes to get some physical play out of their systems but this clown was lost. No calls, not even obvious ones and when he finally calls one it is a yellow. He never had control of this game.
Tata needs to check overstock.com and see if he can pick up some clues cuz he sure as ******** doesn't have a single one. The timing of his subs sends one of two messages. First is that he still doesn't realize that there is no extra time. Second is that...he just needs to go. Both Pekerman and Sabella did excellent work with the team and the AFA saw to it that they were gone.
Prefer to face a Neymar-less Brazil than Paraguay whom I think we will end up facing anyways. I keep believing that at some point the floodgates will open up like they did against Serbia/Montenegro but somehow the faith that it will is dwindled pretty low.
during the uruguayan saque de arco, what were our fans yelling?
i'm talking about that thing that started in estadio azteca whenever the opposing goalie takes it out ("eeeehhhh... p*to!" which i kind of dislike heavily for the word that's used, you know, being generally hateful at best and antiquatedly homophobic at worst.) and which has slowly been creeping around america wherever mexico plays, so that brazil picked it up a year ago, and chile now does it too.
but it seems the argentine fans are saying something else. i just couldn't pick it up. it sounded sort of like, "minga" or maybe "pija"? did anybody catch what we're saying? i think it could be a fun stadium convention, to yell something at that moment. but someone please give me hope that we rose above to say something poignant and funny, not something out of place and hateful.
So some odd thoughts on the game. I'm not argentine, so I don't care that much about the results, I prefer Argentina wins but I'm not gonna get mad if they don't. I watch all football games as a River fan, who identifies with no country.
The refereeing, like the whole tournament was bad. People love to talk about the wonderful football Pekerman is known for. Well this tournament can shove that up one giant ass, they went at Neymar too hard for my liking too, after almost ending his career a year ago.
Tevez doesn't need manufactured hype, although he certainly got it. From the first half hour of play, they were already planting that propaganda that this country's journalists are good for. Dudes too good to need that, you can't not appreciate his work rate, but the Boca myth making machine is still running at full force.
Messis success is something I take personally these days, because any anti Messi individual deserves personal and professional failure.
Marino is clown shoes, but you guys already knew that. Still though, the squad has to be considered a favorite, Chiles been good but they don't impress me a ton. No go leader to speak of, and a lack of testing of the back line will come to haunt them in the final.
I'm glad everyone saw our famoso Teo, that's Teo not giving a shit, as he does 2 out of 3 games. The ball gets to him, with his back to the goal and he immediately gets rid of it. Sacrifice yourself a little bit ya cun t. It was a great substitution to get him out because if he isn't going to hold the ball a little bit you might as well enforce a midfield that's getting run through. As a River fan first and foremost, I'd have yelled for a Sanchez goal against Argentina, but not Teo.
On to what I think will be Paraguay, which will be a tough opponent as well.
Its nice to read such an objective post about ARG, since we all here are understandibly biased (some for arg, some against,maybe due to so many dissapointments).
I agree about tevez and im not a river fan
I am no fan of Tata. In fact, I would have preferred that he not get the job. I am scratching my head a bit though about the crazy amount of criticism for last night's subs. Not that I even agreed with them, but I could see the rationale behind them.
And in the future, it would be much more useful for people to post what subs they would do in real time, instead of criticizing with the benefit of looking back. It's easy to say the manager messed up, but what you would have done is much more useful.
I didn't find the subs odd; and agreed w/ them.
- DiMaria was ineffective when he was subbed out, and Lavezzi could offer pace and keeps the game wide.
- Banega for Pastore was also a good sub; we needed to see if we could take shots from outside the box and Banega probably has the best long shot on the team.
- The Tevez for Aguero sub was a bit more controversial imo. Higuain could have been a better choice, perhaps; b/c Higuain is a bit more deadly in the box. And Tevez at times overlaps w Messi. Whereas Higuain can play more as a true #9, and allow Messi to play underneath him. All that said, Tevez did score the winning PK, so what do I know? In 20/20 post game analysis, Tata can also defend the Tevez subin.
So, I think that Tata did a good job yesterday with the subs.
The question now is, does Tevez start over Kun in the next game? Are we going to see Kun-Higuain-Messi starting again? I though that the way we started yesterday was really good and would like to see us start with the same lineup
I'm not bothered by the substitutions as much as the tactics. If you know Colombia isn't trying to come out and play, yet aren't all backed into the goal. Make them come out and move around a bit with the ball and then punish them when space opens up. Argentina proved it is tough defensively last summer, and Messi is his own counter attack. I don't know, ive seen too many superior teams go out in Cups because they can't swallow their pride and ugly down to the level of play on the field. They try to pass and run their way around teams who have no intentions of playing, and end up going out in penalties, which almost happened last night.
Plus Messi is too far back, I'd love them to put together 15 straight passes before every goal. But they almost,won a World Cup with a strong organized back line, and free range Messi. Why mess with a good thing.
No, i dont think tevez should start instead of kun. Do u think tata can think that? Or anyone? Im seriously asking
Higuain the top scorer of the wcq
Tevez is so popular in Argentina, that I could see the media trying to make that a story. I don't think that Tevez should start over Aguero or Higuain. But somehow, Tevez needs to be more involved
I'd start Tevez, or Higuain over Aguero. You could even convince me to start a combination of either one plus Lavezzi for Aguero and Pastore. Pastore has been good, but he's almost redundant the way they're playing.
Yeah, the media pressures with that a lot.
I agree, I think kun should always start
I would agree with you EXCEPT that those tactics created SIXTEEN shots, and it took Ospina going beyond changing water into wine to keep some of those balls out. Tata's tactics had utter and complete control of the midfield in the first half, and for much of the 2nd half. Pastore was having a really good match, so when Messi dropped in this case, I didn't mind at all. The only way Argentina stops itself usually is by inexplicably having its forwards refuse to move when off the ball.
Sometimes we say the opponent doesn't want to play, when in reality it's our own team that is pushing them against their own goal by taking the initiative. I think Colombia played as they did, because we left them no choice, we overran them. And Argentines want the NT to be protagonists, to have the ball, to pressure, it's in our blood. To play the counter, to entice the opponent to come out and play in order to create space for our guys, those type of tactics are seen with disdain by most fans.
It's funny, today people talk about Maradona's great WC in 86, they reminisce about him being the greatest ever, but at the time, when Bilardo designed the team to stay back and counter in order to allow space for Maradona to do his thing, everybody hated it. I am old enough to remember the crowds leading up to 86 constantly chanting "Bilardo hijo de puta la puta que te pareó".
Frankly, I didn't like the strategy either. Nobody liked it. Bilardo had a lot of balls to stick with his strategy to get the most out of Diego, and in the end Diego came through and Bilardo had the last laugh.
Apparently there are no Bilardos around today, who are willing to put up with the pressure and even hatred of the crowd and experiment with a more conservative system that would give Messi more room to operate, as Bilardo's system did for Diego. And frankly, I wouldn't like it today either, anymore than I liked it back in 86. But perhaps we need a coach who wants to win at all costs and will not give a ******** about what fans like myself have to say about it.
I'm a big Tevez fan, but he doesn't need to start. If there is a case for this lineup to be changed, it should be Lavezzi pushing Di Maria possibly. As long as Pastore continues to be active, I really like the attack. Also if we need more attack, perhaps consider Banega for Biglia. Truth be told, I've seen this team completely lose the plot defensively when a holding comes off for a more attacking player. Biglia does a lot of the dirty work that can easily go unnoticed.
Argentina, more than any other futbol country should be all about the win one at all costs attitude. If it meant playing a 9-0-1 formation, I would be all for it at this point. Win this copa and the next WC, then we can talk about playing attacking futbol again.
I had high hopes for Sabella. He really seemed to have fixed things in the back. I would have loved to see what he could have done with another 4 years at the helm. The next hope might just be Simeone.
Isn't that more or less how they almost won last summer? People remember a winner, but you have to be versatile it not black and white. Like I said, it wasn't like Colombia was backed into the goal. at least not tactically jaja, they cut off most every attack with tactical fouls. So to me the solution would be make them move around a bit more, and not allow them to be so comfortably positioned to foul you where they want to foul you. But every time Argentina got the ball back Colombia could easily reposition itsself and its 5 fouling midfielders.
I think Sabella was the closest we've had to Bilardo. It's no surprise that he came the closest to winning the WC, since Bilardo. Of course, we can win with attacking football, like Menotti did, and to me as a fan it's more rewarding. But it's also more difficult. That's why at my age, after all these years of disappointment, I'm coming around to saying, "just win, baby!"
Well and the whole Boca thing. No need to apologize, just bring home the glory.
Yesterday i was telling this same thing to my husband, i actually was saying "ARG should just score 2 goals early and then tata should sent ALL 11 MEN to defend. Just like sabella would do"
I know its not the better way to win, and not the futbol i enjoy the most, but a win is a win, SPECIALLY to a team that needs it so desperatly, just like ARG does.
For me, it is like this:
1. Winning playing great
2. Winning playing ugly
3. Losing playing great
4. Losing playing ugly
3. Winning in penalties.
when was the match?