Convey; taking care of...the ball [N&A]

... mod's note ...

Uniteo and I discussed it, and we've decided to designate this thread N&A. So the expectations are high on this thread, and any post that falls short of serious discussion will be deleted. If you want a reasonable and balanced discussion of Bobby Convey's playing then this is your thread. If you want to engage in Convey bashing, OR Convey gushing, then take it elsewhere.

Cool? Now let's have a serious discussion ... something this topic surely needs.

Thanks,

 

Good post uniteo.

One thing I'd like to point out about all the people on the other thread saying that by the looks of Bobby's body language, he looks like he doesn't care is that I think he looks more frustrated, and that could be from many things, but I think it is most likely that he, like everyone on here, sees his obvious weakness in front of goal, and maybe he thinks that he could be giving more to this team. His confidence in those situations is probably at record lows for him right now, after a couple of extraordinary misses, and thats understandable. It could also be that he's frustrated with the position he plays in the lineup, or is still bitter about the whole Tottenham thing last year, but your guess is as good as mine, we don't really know.

Since you just watched the game over, maybe you noticed one thing I did about Bobby right before his miss. As Earnie runs down with the ball, just before he passes the ball back, watch Bobby. Most players would be waving their arms, screaming their lungs out for a pass. Bobby seemed very calm and sedate just waiting for the pass. Now that may not say much to anyone, but to me, that made me think in a way that he may not have wanted the pass. He may have been hoping that Earnie would just pound it in, so he would never have to take the chance. Maybe that sounds ridiculous, but when I saw it, it looked like Bobby was shying away from it a little, praying that Earnie would finish it, so he wouldn't have to take the responsibility.

Either way, you're right that he played pretty well, aside from that one chance in front of goal.

- Ryan

 

Re: ... mod's note ...

This same analysis was done of Convey's play on the USMNT last year and like this one, it shows that he rarely turns the ball over, consistently wins loose balls and corners, etc. I don't think that's in dispute by anybody.

One of the reasons I think Bobby will do better in England than MLS is because he won't be asked to be the dominant player on the pitch... he'll just need to fit in as one of the eleven. In that role, Bobby is perfect. When you are asking him to be a dominant player and take over the game by himself, it's kind of like asking an all-around NBA player like Scottie Pippen or Kevin Garnett to simply be a dominant scorer instead of an all-around player. One of the reasons Convey seems to look better in a USMNT uniform is because he doesn't have the pressure to be dominant single-handedly, just fit in and play team football. With DCU, that isn't enough, because winning 5 corners during a game is essentially meaningless (whereas it means a lot to the USMNT where we occassionally convert them). At DCU, he has to do more, which gets him outside his comfort zone and prevents him from living up to the expectations of DCU fans.

 

I agree with rymannryan in that Convey's purported lack of emotion on the pitch may be due to frustration, whether aimed at his play, or at the play of those around him. All I know is that if I missed two shots (both open goals) in one season, the season in which I was to be the new leader of a team, at the age of 21, I would be pretty frustrated too. I really think it comes down to the fact that Bobby wants to be seen as a leader (because it will look better to the EPL or because he has immense loyalty to DCU? don't know and not going there), but the pressure of that is wearing thin. I think that would explain his intensity, his frustration (a team leader that doesn't finish his chances...?), and generally his whole attitude in playing with DCU.

This would also explain why he plays better with the Nats...as bofahey has already mentioned, Bobby isn't expected to be the dominant player on the pitch when he plays for BA...the pressure is therefore off, and he is free to just play soccer...which in the end is what is most important to him. Just my opinion.

 

Great job on the analysis uniteo! ... and Knave...thanks for the N&A tag!

As far as showing emotion on the pitch, I don't recall that ever being a prominent part of Convey's game. Of course, if he had been showing emotion over the last few seasons I am sure I was distracted by hairy-chested Bulgarians and mulleted Bolivians over-emoting ! I am glad for the reprieve from "wearing it on your sleeve". Besides, Dema has the emotion thing covered for about 8 players.

Performance: I don't see what there is to complain about as far as Convey's play throughout the season. Sure he has missed two golden open-net opportunities, but does anyone really think he enjoyed missing those? or intentionaly missed? or doesn't feel like a tool for missing? And you know why Stewart passed that ball, he knew he was going to blast the ball out of the Cotton Bowl if he took the shot. Really, if you want to roast someone for not being able to get the ball on target, where does Earnie Stewart belong in the conversation, because I know he merits some coverage? Truth be told, I think we all realize where we stand with our midfield. We have some extremely hard working players who have an excellent understanding of each other but just can't seem to get the ball on target. Other than missing the goal, I think our midfield does a great job. That includes Convey and Stewart. In fact, we have 6 midfielders who could probably start just about anywhere in the league.

FRUSTRATION Of course he's frustrated. After 5 seasons of utter sh!te I'm frustrated and every damn one of you should be, too. The players, the coach, their wives and children, the fans and even the Good Lord himself (or herself)-because we all know God is a United fan- shoud be sick and tired of barely managing to eek into the playoffs, if there is any post-season play at all. I think the team is close to turning a corner (of course I've been thinking that for three years now) and the last thing we need to be doing is singling out players for a rousing chorus of "YOU SUCK!!!" If anything, the quickest return to form for the team is going to occur with the fans standing behind them and cheering, not heckling. Now don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to pointing out when a player screws up or is underperforming, but the visciousness and venom in the Convey posts is a little bit overboard. With the exception of a certain Lanky-one, not even Stokes has been berated to the degree Convey has. Honestly, how close does one need to be to an open goal to get a shot on target??? But did he gve up? No, he assisted on the goal that got us out of the Cotton Bowl with a point.

Convey comes to play every game. Anyone questioning his heart or his intensity is focusing on a minute here or there and isn't looking at the entire picture. He is a good footballer and is an asset to our team...period. He is still barely of drinking age and has a bright future ahead of him, hopefully with DC United.

 

Do ya think maybe Bobby is just a little burnt out at this point in time. Just think how much time he has spent playing soccer in the last year. DC United on to U-23 National Team and on to US National Team. This is alot of playing soccer and alot of travel that tends to wear you down and is bound to have consequences.

 

I think this is having a bigger impact than he wants to admit and we, the fans, want to acknowledge. I bet he can't wait for the All-Star break. If he's selected he should decline. A week and a half off would do the body good. He should go to a small quiet beach and do nothing but swing in a hammock and maybe get rubbed down by some babe in a bikini and not think read or watch soccer for the whole time.

 

Re: ... mod's note ...

Interesting....but does his play with the U20s conflict with this. He was in fact the dominant player on our team, and had the responsibility (as captain) of being the on-field leader, playmaker and scorer.

 

good point and easy to forget. Players need breaks of more than a couple days for physical AND mental "recharging" from time to time. Bobby is way overdue.......and I don't see an end to it (MLS, US Open Cup, WCQs) until after the MLS Championship game (heh - if he is still here).

Wasn't Olsen playing this much the couple years before going to Sheffield and playing on a deteiorating (sp?) ankle until it gave? I hope a similar scenario does not play out for Bobby. The US will need his a** in 2006 (especially if John O'Brian cannot get healthy).

-Shark

 

I don't know Convey personally, so the best that I can do is glean stuff from his interviews, body language, mannerisms, etc. My impression of him is someone who has a serious demeanor, is very goal oriented, and wants others to be as focused and hard working as he is. I don't think he suffers fools well. He is a talented player who gets frustrated that others either don't have the talent to mesh with him, or don't have the drive to be the best that they can. But he also doesn't have an outsized personality, the type that will take over a game (Reggie Jackson saying that he's the straw that stirs the drink). So I agree that he will fit in very well with other talented players, and I definitely see him fitting in well in the Premier League. Hard to predict how well he'll do there, but his quiet and diligent work ethic will help him to improve his game.

 

My take on Convey is that he wants to be a professional soccer player and I want to emphasize the professional part. Unlike Tino who seems to be a soccer player because he can and can get paid for having fun, I see Convey treating the game as a profession.

Bobby seems to play better when the other players around him are of higher caliber than club players. I agree with other posters that he would do fine in the EPL. He would not be a star but a capable player that adds to the overall teams play. Some one said he would be like a John Harkes who had a fine career over in England.

Neither Bobby or Stewart are finishers. Some people have a knack for scoring but the rest of their game is piss poor. A good example is Rocket Roy – his first touch was terrible, he had no control and defense was something other people did – but putting the ball in the back of the net he could do. I agree with a fellow poster that shooting aside, Stewart and Bobby are great midfielders. I just wish they could shoot straight so I wouldn’t have to yell at them so much.

-The Far Side

 

Convey Analysis

Great post Uniteo, and great thread too. Thanks for making it [N&A].

Intelligent off-the-ball play is one of Convey's greatest assets, and frankly, he's one of the best US players at that. While he does a decent job now of getting the ball in the easy ballwinning situation, he's still weak defensively. He's starting to adapt to positional defending, but you see many times where he recognizes it and makes the correct play a couple of times, followed by a couple of times where he just flakes out and lets the play fly by. He's not used to being asked to play defense, and this aspect is taking time.

On-the-ball, Convey is very good, but often doesn't get recognized because he's not flashy. He consistently beats players 1v1 by taking the correct angle and timing his touch to when the defender has difficulty recovering, then he uses his speed to play by the guy. Flashy ball wizards make a more dramatic lateral cut and leave the defender looking more foolish, but they don't usually beat there man as often as Convey does. Despite this, it "looks" good and people consider those types better on the ball. Convey sees and thinks the game very well. His timing is impeccable, which is why his off-the-ball runs are so good, and why his seemingly-simplistic dribbling doesn't impress a large minority of people.

But Convey's greatest asset is his crossing. MLS's biggest weakness is its flank play. We have few true scorers who can consistently threaten in the air, and most of our scorers are spotty redirecting crosses with their feet. As a result, few teams are dangerous from flank play as compared to the top European leagues. Thus, crossing isn't as important of a skill in MLS as it is in those top European leagues. DaMarcus Beasley stands out as a winger, but he's not a good crosser. Convey stands out as a winger in large part because of his crossing. Convey manages to get off a cross almost at will, which is extremely important for a winger. He also has a fairly accurate cross, although our forwards often fail to make the proper run, which is why he looks more effective for the national team, because if the forward is there, his good service is easier to see.

One other major area in which Bobby excels is the short passing game. Ironically, Stewart is probably the best combination of this with Bobby. When Bobby is closer to Stewart, both players look better, but when each is isolated on their wings, United doesn't have much one-touch-passing that threatens goal. Moreno and Freddy can do it, and sometimes do, but not consistently enough to disrupt defenses. Olsen, Kovalenko and Carroll often kill give-and-goes. Olsen holds onto the ball, Kovalenko dribbles toward goal without passing, and Carroll chooses the wrong outlet. Thus when Convey is the middle man in a give-and-go, it looks wonderful and works well, but that requires the person who passes him the ball to actually make the run ... the "go" part of it. When Convey starts the give-and-go, he'll make the pass, immediately make the run ... then not get a return pass, and people don't realize that the other player just messed up a good play. Then Bobby looks and feels like one hand clapping.

-Digital

 

interesting analagy to reyna...

another reason for his "uncomfort" in front of the goal is that he isn't there that often and when he is its a situation where he is expected to score (empty net). so he feels like he HAS to make the shot and tightens up. i think this is the same problem that is plaguing stewart. he feels like he has to crush the ball and his technique is way off. the good shooters dont make much effort to strike the ball.

i think the best scenario for bobby is when there is open field in front of him. i tell you an impressive sight is watching bobby, LD and fall-down-beasley running a counter-attack for the Nats. speed, off the ball runs, and thru balls into space abound.... i would actually like for us to (on occasion...) bunker in a little bit and counter-attack for DC. between bobby and earnie and if gros can somehow find his way into that mix as well, we'd be lethal. freddy plays that wide-open game well also..

some people cant wait till he goes to england, but we're gonna miss him when he's gone....

 

Re: Convey Analysis

This I can agree with.

While his timing is good off the ball, his timing ON the ball is terrible. He only has one gear - full speed straight ahead. I can't recall ever seeing him slow down or stop to create space by backing the defender off, which he certainly could do frequently with his speed. Also, he rarely plays a good switching ball to take advantage of space on the far side.

He does, apparently, recognize that sometimes this is a good tactic, as evidenced by his constant windmilling when the play is on the other side of the field.

He hits some good crosses when he has time to set up, but by and large (this past week's assist aside) his crosses while on the run are usually erratic. At best.

I also agree with this part. Bobby is quite good at playing one-touch.

 

I'll admit that agreeing with Chico was a gut reaction at the time. Bobby had just missed, and it seemed like it was going to be more of the same-old-same.

I still believe that his play is significantly sharper for the Nats. And I still believe he's going to have problems come transfer time. He needs to be a difference-maker to make the move overseas. The bottom line is that a difference-maker scores that goal.

You can throw up Reyna all you want, but the fact of the matter is that he moved overseas ten years ago when rules were significantly different, and has earned his spot since then. Bobby doesn't have that advantage. Bobby has to deal with things as they are. Does he deserve his shot? Of course. I just don't think he's going to get that shot until he starts putting those goals away.

We're not talking about scoring ten goals in MLS--he doesn't get that many opportunities. But even Claudio manages to tuck in a couple of goals every now and then, and Bobby hasn't done that yet.

 

Re: Convey Analysis

Did you miss the first game and Earnie's pinpoint, cross fielder that put Bobby facing and missing an open goal? There have been several others but I don't have time to exercise grey matter to clear out the webs.

 

I used to think that Bobby Convey was the most overrated player in America. Couldn't believe the DCU/Sam's Army fans telling me that he was the U.S.A's future #10. In fact, I couldn't believe why he was in the USMNT pool at all.

Now I appreciate the latter point. The guy fits a role very well, and it's a role required by the National team. A energetic counterattacker/slasher who plays fast and who combines well with the team's offensive lynchpins, Donovan and Beasley.

As for #10, fuhgeddaboutit. The arguments already made on these threads illustrate why Bobby's not a #10, any more than Reyna was.

The question is, does Bobby have a useful role on DCU as the team is currently constituted. Or is that a hopeless cause? Can Bobby only thrive on a fast-paced counterattack team, for example the EPL style.

Hey, I don't see Bobby all that much at the club level. You tell me.

 

Using a traditional #10 is an outmoded system of play, I think Arena has recognized that.

 

Certainly Euro '04 would suggest that.

Maybe. Or maybe he realizes that he doesn't have a real #10, in the traditional mode.

 

That's certainly possible.

 

What a great question. I'll take a crack at it.

I think that Bobby has struggled for the past 3 years in large part because the team has played a style of play that doesn't fit his attributes. Not only are Bobby's skills suited to fast, counterattacking style of play, he thinks that way. I think a lot of Convey's frustration may have to do with other players on the team not playing as quickly as he wants them to. Moreover, they often make bad decisions that lead to a loss of possession in dangerous situations. I'm hypothesizing here, but we may have a situation where Bobby sees the correct play, sees his team mates make the wrong play. This repeats itself throughout the game and he grows increasingly frustrated.

I think Bobby's position in the team hinges on whether the team can speed up its play. I see certain players as capable of that - Nelsen, Namoff, Gros, Adu, Eski, even Stewart. However, I don't see the speed of play picking up because of Prideaux, Petke, Dema, Carroll, and Moreno. Moreno can't run at the pace needed for that style of play while Petke, Prideaux, Carroll and Dema don't have the skill or soccer brains necessary. Whether Nowak wants the team to go that route? I have no idea.