that's more than fair but that's a far way from "breaking the heart of the team" that lasted for years after the coach left. It's hard to get past that the team did better than expected after making the decision.
I agree that they weren't broken. I just know in my experience, I start to question everything once you have shown that you are not trustworthy.
I'm against any USMNT coach staying for more than one cycle as it's hard to coach the same pool for a while - the USMNT doesn't have the same turnover velocity as even club teams. WRT Donovan, I wouldn't have cut him but I think he was cut for non-soccer reasons - I'd guess that he was told he'd have a spot as long as he STFU as he wasn't part of the core at that point (it was Clint's team and I think - but do not know - that Clint and his circle didn't love Landon). He refused to be silent and that was it. The team responded positively (and certainly not negatively) on the field.
The attack sucked. Landon was the 2nd best attacker in the pool. I agree that it was non-soccer reasons. That's the problem, it's a soccer tournament.
The attack was good enough to get out of the most difficult group the USMNT has ever advanced out of and we had a (Wondo) shot at beating Belgium. It was extremely risky to take a good player out but we don't know the social dynamics of the group so it's conceivable that the team could have played worse if Landon was part of the squad and being disruptive. Alas, we'll never know.
There is no such a thing as a hole in the talent in the country of this size. Staging the war with MLS, bringing the bunch of mediocrities from Germany, that's how the talent hole was created.
Stating that it’s harder to keep firm playing at a lower level than the big 4 isn’t really staging the war on MLS. do you agree with arena’s comments wrt dual nationals and MLS? Is Jermaine Jones a mediocre talent?
JJ was brought by Bradley. He was a real talent and a real sociopath. The team was better with him in a short run and would be much better without him in a long run.
Which one? Arena talks non stop and likes to hear himself. Quite often he is right, but mostly he just does it for shits and giggles.
A large part of the reason the attack sucked was our striker tore his hamstring 20 minutes into game #1, and Johansson was playing hurt (IDK all the issues surrounding that, but what I heard was he played the tourney hurt). Landon should've been there. Jozy shouldn't have gotten hurt.
What's "long run"? He was a key player for the better part of a decade, despite age. He was extremely influential, both because of his skill and toughness on the ball, and his grit and bite off of it. Inside the locker room, maybe a bit crazy, IDK. His fall off the wagon seems to mainly be caused by post-MNT marital troubles, or at the least the fall has occurred after his MNT career was over. It sure would've helped to have someone who wanted to be there like JJ rather than someone who couldn't care less like Nagbe.
refresher: he walked off the team for a hiatus. initially when he came back he was trash and not even worth a call. i doubt he was the leader at that point. there is a fair debate about whether he could have been reincorporated as he got his legs back, but he'd eroded enough it was a judgment call, and not one that changed how brazil went. the beefing i have heard from actual team members was about how his kid acted, not cutting landon. the real klinsi issue that hit the actual papers was perceived dual national favoritism crossed with how the semis and early hex went. which i assume was the public bubbling up of anger that might have been around as we struggled the whole early part of that cycle. i think there was more real anger at, say, bradley starting clark against ghana, than klinsi before 2014. to me the closest he came to actual crosswinds first cycle was when he left jozy and dempsey off for friendlies. that you had actual press grumpiness from team members about MLS snobbery and coach meddling in career choice. i thought "landon-gate" was more of a press-public uproar, a popularity thing. one can see that unlike say wynalda-harkes it didn't have a morale or practical soccer effect. fwiw part of the shock on harkes is unlike landon on hiatus there was no forewarning. i kind of thought he and wegerle were allowed to hang around too long on one good peg, but that's like you take a core player who never went away and then cut them. THAT would upset a team. landon left and the team had been reshaped with german involvement. and then as someone said, people aged out and the germans faded and the development hole was gaping last cycle. one can argue klinsi for 2014 patched up what should have been worse. the patch then got old and wow what was left was no good. how many years there and about all high class we netted was pulisic. you compare that to say, 2002 or 2006 and you get landon dolo boca beasley gooch etc etc in bunches, you see how bad it compares. it's all the nagbe types who turned out nagbes and not landons, to me. it happens, but at sufficient accumulation the team sucks. i think the pool is much improved, but now the coach has to be willing to select and play them. that and i do have some question whether the defense and keeping are good enough at their actual job to be highly competitive. i think we have the offense -- on the way -- to go up and down the field with teams soon. i am not sold we have the defense to compete with a similarly talented offensive opponent.
No. This is revisionist nonsense. He was the golden ball winner at Gold Cup and then played well in qualifiers. There is no circumstance where that isn't good enough to beat out one of Mix, Brad Davis, Green, or Wondo. We had a many page thread about this.
As someone who spent a lot of time in that thread, the only question was: "How bad of a mistake was it?". I erred on the side of "It wasn't a big deal", others felt that we'd left out a starter.
And that's why so many times I kept saying that, soccer in this country was way too political and not about the results on the field. Its like we are still watching a Garber and Arena vs Klinsmann pissing match. The same problem you just listed is exactly what we did with Bradley. We wasted years building around a post-injury and slow core player and then to make matters worse we kept on at It to fix a legacy because Conrad spilled the beans and said we need to move on. Under no circumstances should the CEO of USSF and President position be held for 15 years. And under no circumstances should the Chief of Conflict of Interests board memeber in USSF also be the MLS commissioner and CEO of SUM.
[moved] went back and watched all of Landon’s assists. First - it’s very impressive! second - I don’t think it shows Landon as an orchestrator but rather a player who excels in transition and making unexpected one touch passes. Obviously, there are some outliers but the overall sense i get is that he was so good s being direct. Claudio was the orchestrator during his regime - his ability to speed up or slow down was impressive and was instrumental in Landon’s development imo. I think Gregg is looking for Claudio but there’s no one like him in our current pool.
I think this is a pretty reasonable analysis. Donovan had great vision and was devastating running at a defense that wasn't completely set/bunkered. He had great vision and could really sense that killer ball going forward. Stand him up and he was much less effective. As you say, he was very direct...combined with his excellent vision is one of the things that made him so effective. Not too sure exactly what you mean by orchestrator but I think I agree. Claudio didn't create too many scoring opportunities (19 in 119 games) but was excellent at slowing the game down and controlling the pace of the game. In my opinion, the player that comes closest to matching his abilities is Nagbe (but he still falls short and in my opinion, wouldn't be a good answer). Of course Nagbe doesn't want to play with us anyway.
At the time, we had, as midfielders, Bradley, Jones, Beckermann, Zusi, Bedoya, Davis, each of whom ended up starting at least one game in the wc. Bradley, Jones and Beckermann were (IMO) unquestioned starters (and Klinsmann seems to have agreed). Dempsey could have started at midfield (but needed at forward), Cameron could have started there (but probably would have replaced Beckermann). FJ could also have started there but was starting elsewhere. Green or Diskerud could have played there but those choices didn't seem to be too high on Klinsmann's list at midfield. That leaves 1-2 positions for Zusi, Bedoya, Davis, Green?, Diskereud?. Klinsmann used Zusi, Bedoya, Davis as starters (several times starting two of the three). That indicates to me that Green and Diskerud were not considered potential starters (Mix didn't see the field and Green almost had the same fate...only to go on as a desperation attacker) I personally see a combination of Bedoya and Zusi as being a poorman's Donovan. Zusi was good in the attack (similar to Donovan) but not nearly as effective as Donovan in defense. Bedoya was better defensively than Zusi but not as strong in the offense. Neither was (I don't believe) as fast as Donovan. Put their qualities together and you have a poor man's Donovan. I won't say anything about Davis. I would start Donovan over any of Zusi, Bedoya or Davis in a heartbeat. Put that together with Donovan's versatility (versatility being especially important in a tournament setting), and I think it is a major misstep to leave Donovan home. Whether the result (making it out of the group but losing in R16) was better or worse is impossible to tell. It is also possible that a person can sometimes make the wrong choice and, through no fault of his/her own, still come out with a positive result.
Donovan does not play the same position as Bedoya, Zusi, or Davis in the 4-1-2-1-2 diamond that we debut against Mexico in the last friendly before the WC2014 tuneup matches, used in the tuneup and used to start WC2014. LD is not a shuttler and has neither the defensive chops or work rate at that point to play such a role. LD would have played either the CAM or a forward in the top -1-2. It is no coincidence that Bruce A had the Galaxy playing a diamond and LD playing a CAM in MLS at that time. Bruce has gone on record as having several conversations with Klinsmann about LD during that time period.
Do you believe Klinsmann took Arena's advice on LD? There is always the possibility that I am wrong. That being said, I disagree that Donovan had lost so much of his versatility that he was excluded due to his inability to play a specific role in midfield. It is pretty clear that Donovan didn't have the same super human stamina he once had but how much he had lost is less obvious and I am skeptical that he was left off due to lack of stamina and or workrate. After all of these years, I wouldn't expect either of us to change our positons. Whether you are right or wrong, at least your opinion is based upon a rational argument. Klinsmann has continued to say that he left LD off due to performance issues. He is the only one to know that for sure and if he is telling the truth, than perhaps you are absolutely right.
I Think that Arena's assessment in those conversations was a major factor in Klinsmann's decision. I will again post some of BA's perspectives with my emphasis in color. Donovan often clashed with coaches who were paid to squeeze every ounce of talent out of every player. Bruce Arena, who spent a combined 14 years coaching Donovan with the U.S. and the Galaxy, considers Donovan the biggest challenge of his career. As Donovan retires, Arena is one of those wondering if he could have done something different to get more out of him. "He's sensitive," Arena says. "He often tries to overanalyze things. He doesn't have Michael Jordan DNA or Kobe Bryant DNA. Those guys know their job and compete every day. If it's not the best day, it's not the best day. But they're there, 100 percent mentally and physically. He wasn't always that way. In the last eight years, it's been a coin flip with what to expect from him." As Klinsmann was deciding his final roster, he contemplated all of this. Arena told Klinsmann he thought Donovan could help the U.S. In the past, he and former U.S. head coach Bob Bradley had given Donovan the benefit of the doubt, and in the Yanks' biggest moments, he would often deliver. https://www.espn.com/soccer/club/name/660/blog/post/2181055/headline Some LD fans want to create some issue that Klinsmann had with LD. The truth is even simpler and maybe more disappointing as shown in that ESPN piece. In the end, Klinsmann did not think LD was anything special.
Where did you see that in the linked article? Klinsy made his choice because he wanted to. JK is a garbage, roll out the balls, coach as has been confirmed by literally dozens of his former players. He has no track record to show that he is anything special as a coach.
Yeah after 6 years it's still BS that JK didn't select Donovan to the 2014 WC squad. The argument that JK didn't think that LD was anything special doesn't hold water for at least a few reasons. (1) After LD's national team sabbatical he had to earn his way back into the team by playing in the 2013 GC. At the 2013 GC Donovan was clearly the best player not just on the team but in the entire tournament and deservedly won the gold ball (not to mention golden boot). Are we to believe that he dropped in form so significantly that just one year later there were 23 players better than him? (2) LD has a demonstrated record of excellence with the national team in the form of more than 50 goals and more than 50 assists, and specifically the WC where the stakes are the highest (see Algeria 2010). (3) No rational argument can be made that Brad Davis, who is the same age as LD and has 57 less national team goals, should have been selected over LD. Frankly LD had a better case for inclusion than much of the squad. (4) Jonathan Klinsmann's mocking tweet taking delight in the exclusion of LD showed at the very least that there was joy in the Klinsmann family that LD was staying home.