Containment zone: the Klinnsman / Donovan fault line

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by DHC1, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just tend to tag posters when I mention them in threads. I happen to know HHF and Bsky are in here because they've been posting, but otherwise I tend to tag people when I mention them.

    Obviously, you don't need to care or post if you don't want, this isn't a gauntlet thrown down.
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    to be fair, i have made the same analysis of GB based on his games in the can against potential hex teams. at present he would have 2 Mexico losses (home), split Jamaica (home), split Canada, beat CR (which is indulgent because it was cupcake). plus a CR road loss and let's say 4 honduras points gets you 13 points again. this should already be over.

    to me the JK proponents engage in the same sort of subjective "let's play pretend" GB gets. i'm supposed to assume someone with 3 points from Guate and 4 points from TnT was headed to qualification after nothing for the first two hex games. if we turn this to speculation, yeah, we can speculate anyone would do anything. GB will win the world cup. but it wouldn't have an objective basis.

    my mission here is get back to the objective numbers. what do they tell you.
     
  3. Duncan Edwards i miss u

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    [Oh well. I will get ban again]

    I will never understand why someone would write his message in several post when he can do them in one. Unless he believe that if he write his message in one post, no one will read his stuff. Why? Because he knows that the message he put out can be done in one sentence. For example, in this thread, what he wrote can be put into one sentence. "I HATE JURGEN KLINSMAN!"

    All the above can put into one single sentence as well.

    LET IT GO!
     
  4. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i don't hate JK. i think he had an eye for talent his first cycle and sold an interesting bill of goods that then turned into a very american approach by the world cup, under the practical pressure of reality. i think he lost the plot his second cycle and quit flipping over new rocks for new americans. at which point the developmental hole he had covered the first cycle opened up. we are still trying to fill holes now.

    i am just amused that we are still fighting the same battles in the same terms and that we haven't learned from his experience to push the debate forward any.

    i find his ideas on club affiliations to make sense given his gold star resume, but in terms of our pool to be naive rubbish regressive relative to institutional knowledge ie our big club players don't always turn out, and MLS often works for us (net: it's a wash, club affiliation definitively predicts nothing, earn your darned paycheck and watch the players and figure it out for yourself). i would think our experience of the past few years would encourage nuance. i am lost how this remains slap your resume on the table knowing full well that doesn't produce the best team.

    and i find the obsession with change of style he fostered to be similarly naive. one can only do such things with the players already there to do them. JK at least grasped Kljestan Gringo etc. wasn't going to get it done. but now we even lack that practicality and people can make abstracted statements they want to take the team in a direction and not even think about, is this working, what are the results, do we have the personnel. regression again.

    but then i am now hearing people talk up zardes as the 9 again because he had one good game. to me if i circle back around to the same dumb idea it's time to look under different rocks or try outside of the box ideas. not to literally re-start the same frustrating ideas and debates. push things forward.
     
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  5. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Sarachan was handled the same way around here, as was Tab Ramos before his last big tournament success. It's nothing new. I would like to see them all succeed. My only interest is in US Soccer advancement.

    Would it be great if two former US players who heavily contributed to the 2002 team (Berhalter had a well-earned tying goal disallowed against Germany when Torsten Frings cleared it out of the goal with his hand) led the US to bring the change many people had asked for? Yes. That would be great. I rooted for Tab Ramos as well. Am I married to that? Of course not.
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I was just having fun as well.

    Though I am kind of curious if people are really still going back and forth on JK and LD. Maybe I will read. :)
     
  7. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    5 years and 3 coaches ago, LOL.
     
  8. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    JK is taking over Hertha Berlin. Should be interesting to see how he does there
     
  9. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If he manages to not lose every single game that'll be a surprise
     
  10. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends on who he hires as assistants.
     
  11. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    He should sign his old captain M. Bradley.
     
  12. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is only supposed to be an interim job through the end of the season.

    Klinsmann joined Herta's Supervisory Board about a month ago. Looks like he is filling in, similar to how Huub Stevens filled in at Schalke last year when Tedesco was fired.
     
  13. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    #1 Feilhaber and Adu BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 1, 2007
    So,

    Klinsmann took the US to the Copa Semi-finals and then he got out of the 2014 WC group of the death with Germany, Portugal, and our unbeatable Ghana with the hardest travel logistics and a Wondo mis-hit away from beating Belgium to go to Quarters.

    All with.……………. a lack of talent and Generational gap that old guard apologists loves to continue to push?


    WELL DONE KLINSMANN, WELL DONE.
     
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  14. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Except it wasnt a group a death and Germany had a tougher travel schedule. His managerial achievement was to keep the score low in the last group game
     
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  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It was a heck of a lot tougher than any group we had ever been in. Weird take on the managerial achievement. Needing to keep the score close was due to taking care of business in the first two games.

    Swap Ghana for African or Asian teams and we dont make it out of the group in 2002 or 2010. The late goal against a weakened Portugal was frustrating but that wasnt on Klinsmann but a series of mistakes by players. The two biggest ones were Yedlin not letting the ball go out for a throw in and Bradley not first timing the ball towards the corner flag.

    It is so angering that petty fans who have personal hatred towards the coach try to dimish the accomplishments of the team. 2014 was much more impressive than 2010 and very close to 2002. The only difference is we didnt get the lucky draw against Mexico.
     
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  16. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    More spin from the JK Haters club. There is zero chance they admit he was exactly what was needed when hired.

    He was easily one of the best coaches for the US team, ever, in his first stint. Yes he got stale quick and lost ideas with the pitiful talent pool he had to work with and he should not have been re-upped.

    And no I don't think he'll excel in BL1 as a manager.
     
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  17. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It appears he only got the job in contempt of the 50+1 rule as the investor Lars Windhorst is pushing through his agenda of big risk against the club's will who recently had implemented a "down-to-earthness" policy. That Klinsmann got into the supervisory board one month ago happened after an internal fight and lead to the de facto dis-empowerment of sport director Preetz.

    Basically, he got the job because a rich friend bought the club
    https://taz.de/Hertha-mit-Coach-Klinsmann/!5642689/
     
  18. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    This fits with my view that most of the complaints about Klinsmann are irrational and/or hyperbole. Of course Dortmund needed Klinsmann as coach to beat a struggling team in the relegation zone.

    I always thought was silly when LD fans claimed that Klinsmann left him off the team had to be personal when there were plenty of reasonable reasons to do so. What is clearly personal is these fans irrational hatred of Klinsmann. The guy is three years removed from the usmnt and people still seem fixated on him, when what has come after him has been much worse.
     
  20. dams

    dams Member

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    Yeah, unfortunately Klinsi is looking pretty good right about now relative to what we have. Dude may have had some issues as a coach but we are currently light years away from 2014 as far as any type of relevancy on the International stage is concerned.
     
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  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ??? The guy you quoted is not a US fan.
    You have redefined damning with faint praise. :D
     
  22. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  23. Duncan Edwards i miss u

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He is a 1860 fan for cry out loud. He hate everyone from his city rival.
     
  24. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Game ends 2-2. Oh and no, Klinsi never was a Bauern proxy. Never was accepted there. See Bild wars and Kahn/Lehmann controversy.

    Klinsi is Stuttgarter and Ami
     
  25. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Herta went to Frankfurt and got a point which was a good result. They were up 2-0 but their atrocious set piece defending continues to be their downfall.

    JK has them playing a defensive 3-4-1-2 which stays compact and looks to hit on the counter.
     

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