Connolly's take on SLC expansion

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by soccerfan, Jul 14, 2004.

  1. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    Bradley makes a good point about how quickly MLS expansion teams can compete. Unlike a lot of other leagues, MLS actually tips the scales in favor of the new franchise in a lot of ways.

    All of this accounts to some degree for the seeming anomoly that was 1998. Throw in the fact (as Jeff Bradley does) that the Fire had the advantage of also getting perhaps the best SI (maybe the best player) the league has ever seen and it may account - to some degree - why an expansion team won the championship that year.

    Looking back at the rosters from "98, only Chicago and LA looked like they had teams that looked like they could actually compete in MLS today. And it's a wonder when you look at the DC roster that Arena took that team within a hair of winning the championship.

    BTW, I'd be amazed to see these guys ever get into the expansion draft:
    Brian Kamler, Matt Reis, Kelly Gray (!), Ramiro Corralles, or Evan Whitfield

    I'd also be a little surprised to see Sasha Victorine, Diego Guttierez, Eric Quill, or Tyrone Marshall in there.
     
  3. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Note to Marc Connoly: Check your MLS history, Ray Hudson was not the first coach of the Fusion. He wasn't even the second.

    The Fusion's first coach was Argentine Cacho Cordoba who had been Dave Dir's lieutenant in Dallas, who lasted about a half a season. He was replaced by Brazilian Ivo Wortman, who lasted from mid-way through the 98 campaign to a few games into the 2000 season, when he was canned and replaced by Hudson.
     
  4. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hudson wasn't the first Miami coach.
     
  5. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I wouldn't.

    Brian Kamler - old, average
    Matt Reis - backup
    Kelly Gray - disappointment
    Ramiro Corralles - average, pricey
    Evan Whitfield - mediocre

    Sasha Victorine - average, not really a starter
    Diego Guttierez - very expensive, 32.
    Eric Quill - mediocre,
    Tyrone Marshall in there - old, mediocre
    [/QUOTE]

    These are exactly the kind of guys who teams will want to keep, but end up not being able to justify protecting.
     
  6. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Corrales ends up in the expansion draft, I would think he would be a major target of Chivas USA.
     
  7. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    :rolleyes: you're kidding, right?
     
  8. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I'd suspect that, if they end up in the expansion draft, and they're smart, Chivas aren't going to be able to draft by ethnicitiy. They'll have to draft simply by who the best player available is. If they don't, teams will easily be able to shield their rosters by protecting Latin players, and just letting Chivas pass on the non-Spanish speaking guys they've left unprotected. There will be plenty of time after the draft for Chivas to wheel and deal for a team that's primarily Spanish-speaking - so Ramiro Corrales (et al.) will be a major target, regardless of whether he's in the draft or not.
     
  9. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    I kid you not.

    BTW,

    Kamler: Not overly expensive, very useful
    Reis: Inexpensive, starting-caliber [Will not be left unprotected. Period.]
    Kelly Gray: Downright cheap has potential
    Romiro Coralles: very underrated
    Whitfield: OK, a punk. But not expensive and versatile.


    Gutierez you may have a point. Maybe I haven't seen aneough of Quill and Victorine to realize how "mediocre" they are.
    Don't know what Marshall makes - I suppose that would be the deciding factor.

    Jeff Bradley did, BTW, leave out Joselito Vaca. He can't stay TI forever, and he's been quite mediocre.
     
  10. alf

    alf Member+

    Jun 29, 1999
    Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    You realize Bradley didn't write that, right? If the story doesn't have 11 bullet points, then its not Jeff Bradley.
     
  11. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Remember that KC has already left him avialable for the one and only expansion draft to date. Other than Diego's ability to fill in most anywhere and sheer cruelty, KC may not have a reason to protect him this time either.
     
  12. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    Then you live in an alternate universe. That's the team that won CONCACAF Champions Cup, and beat Vasco da Gama. And looked good doing it. Second best regular season record; LA was first. 2002 World Cup team starting backline featured 3 players from this team, and one off the bench. About the only mystery is why the Bruce kept playing Presthus over Garlick. Full roster:
    Jaime Moreno
    Roy Lassiter
    Marco Etcheverry
    John Harkes
    Ben Olsen
    Tony Sanneh
    Richie Williams
    Carlos Llamosa
    Jeff Agoos
    Eddie Pope
    Tom Presthus
    Scott Garlick
    Brian Kamler
    Geoff Aunger
    Mike Slivinski
    Clint Peay
    Mario Gori
    Carey Talley
    Judah Cooks
    Mark Simpson
    Curt Onalfo
    A.J. Wood
    Danny Care
    Lyle Yorks
     
  13. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    Thanks for the lesson in history and for informing me of my place in the universe. My point is that subsequent history proved that other than Pope, Moreno, Etcheverry, and Sanneh, none of these guys were really star quality outside of the DC team context.
     
  14. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    My point is that that was the best MLS team there ever has been.
     
  15. Stevedm

    Stevedm Red Card

    Jan 19, 2000
    Chicago

    No way buddy. You have to consider the 2000 Fire team. You had Sotitchkov, Nowak, Kubik Podbrozny, Wynalda, Armas, Wolff, and Razov!!! You have a World footballer of the year and World Cup golden Boot winner in Stotichkov, you have Nowak who was german Budelsiga player of the year in 1994 and youhave Lubos Kubik Chezch national team stalwart for 10 years in the back Jerzey Podbrozny Poland First divisons leading scoere for 5 years in a row.Ante Razov who is closing in on the MLS alltime leading socring title. We also had Josh Wolff, one the best strikers on the US national team. We also had Eric Wynalda, the alltime leading US national team goal scorer.


    Fire 2000 squad

    Hristo Stotichkov: Golden boot winner World Cup and World Player of the year 1994

    Peter Nowak: Bundesliga player of the Year in 1994 and the leading assist man in the league

    Lubos Kubik: Czech National team player for 10 years and captian Appread in 2 Wolrd Cups and 3 European Championships

    Jerzey Podbrozny: Leading scorer Poland first division for 5 years

    Eric Wynalda : All time leading scorer US national team

    Josh Wolff: Striker US national team

    Chris Armas: Starting Midfielder US NAtional team

    I dont know how much crack you have been doing but DC United never EVER came close to that type of international experience and class. What the hell has Bolivia ever done on the World CUp stage. Now Etecheverrry in his time was an awesome player, but best team ever in MLS?? Forget about it!!! Its the Chicago Fire!!! and our second best winningest record in all time MLS History proves it!! We caught up to DC and LA and we were around 2 years less than you guys. I am not saying this as a Fire fan, if this squad was DC Uniteds team and we had your squad from back then I woudl be saying the same thing. The Fire squad from 2000 Was the Sheeeeeeeytah Da Bomb!! Nobody came close!
     
  16. tedwar

    tedwar Member

    Jun 24, 1999
    Richmond, CA-EastBay
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet MLSnet.com shows the Kansas City Wizards as the champions that year, I find it amazing Meola and company didn't just spend the game genuflecting at that collection of talent they faced.

    :rolleyes:


    Tony
     
  17. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    SKC/STL
    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Cue the Wagman bashing... :D
     
  19. Stevedm

    Stevedm Red Card

    Jan 19, 2000
    Chicago

    LOL, thats true they won by a shiiiiit goal. If it were best out of three You know that would never have happened again. But the ball is round and upsets happen. But you can bow down and kiss my ring whenever you feel like it! ;)
     
  20. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this might be a valid point IF they had won the supporters' shield. But they did not even win that. The most you could probably say is that they are tied as the best team in MLS history.
     
  21. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks. Wagman's a ****************.
     
  22. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    I agree that Gray has been disappointing, but he's clearly got the raw tools, and they're giving him a lot of minutes. I think he's in their long-term plans.

    IMO, $70K isn't pricey for a versatile left-sided workhorse who holds possession well. The Quakes do have good talent on the left, but Corrales would still be a significant loss. With Ekelund, Dayak, and Agoos getting old, I think they'll find space to keep him.

    Not sure what this one means ... apart from injuries, hasn't he been a fixture in LA's starting line-up? (In any case, the Galaxy have far more than 12 good players/prospects -- they'll be forced to make some tough decisions.)

    Other names where I disagree with Connolly ...
    Cunningham -- am I overlooking something?
    Petke -- with Nelsen likely headed to Europe, DC can't afford to let him go
     
  23. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Probably, but is he more in their long-term plans than Clanton or Griffin? I don't know, but I don't think it's going to be an easy decision.


    I bet they would too, but I don't think it's ridiculous he goes. He's probably as good as he's ever going to be, and the've got Jamil Walker and Arturo Alvarez available to play left wing, and Dunivant at left back.

    Yeah, that was inaccurate on my part. My bad. But if you have to choose between him and Saragosa, or him and Grabavoy, who is it?

    My point wasn't really that all the players who Connolly listed will be in the draft - I'm sure any list I made up would be rather far off the mark from what actually ends up happening. Nevertheless, I don't think any of his selections are that absurd - the teams he listed, are probably of about the same quality as an expansion team would be able to assemble, which was really the point of the article.

    (I agree, Cunningham and Petke won't be in it - but, I thought Nelsen would be gone after last year too)
     
  24. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    ... but Corrales meshes with his teammates much better than any of the left mid alternatives. None of those guys provide comparable defensive cover for Dunivant's overlapping, nor do they hold possession very well -- with an attacker like Mullan on the right, it's nice to have more of a holding player like Corrales on the left. In addition, with Ekelund fading, Corrales's ability to play centrally is valuable.

    At the risk of being too elaborate, I expect the Galaxy to protect:
    3 fwds (Kirovski, Ruiz, and Ngwenya/Moreno)
    5 mids (Gonzalez, Grabavoy, Herzog, Saragosa, and Victorine)
    3 def (Califf, Albright, and ???)
    1 gk (Hartman)

    This would leave Cobi and Vagenas as the prominent unprotected midfielders. Cobi hasn't done much since 2002, and assuming that Saragosa sticks around, Vagenas is on his way out.

    Fair enough ... I wasn't questioning the big point, just interested in discussing some of the players.
     
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I guess the Supporters Shield the Wizards won that year doesn't count either. KC was the higher seed in MLS Cup 2000. They wore their home uniforms. And the "********e" goal just shows your ignorance. That's what KC did all season. Once or twice is lucky. KC had 17 shutouts in the regular season and 5 more in 7 playoff games. They scored early, then took the air out of the ball.

    Chicago was an impressive team, and staged and impressive assault, but they didn't score. Not because they were unlucky, but because they faced the best purely defensive team in MLS history.
     

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