Conmebol + Concacaf = Confederation of the Americas

Discussion in 'CONMEBOL' started by ferx203, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. ferx203

    ferx203 Member

    Aug 18, 2004
    Chile
    What do you think?

    One confederation for all american countries, separated in 3 zones.
    - North-Central America : Since Canada to Panama (10 countries).
    - Caribbean : Caribbean Countries (25 countries).
    - South-America : Conmebol Countries (10 countries).


    A) International Clubs Tournaments.

    Geographical Round

    - North/Central America
    24 teams, 4 for Mexico and USA, 2 for the others.
    1º Round : 6 groups of 4.
    2º Round : 12 teams, 6 couples.
    3º Round : 6 teams, 3 couples.
    3 winners go to Copa Libertadores de America.

    - Caribbean
    25 teams, every national champion.
    Home/away rounds (25 -> 16 -> 8 -> 4 -> 2 -> 1).
    The winner go to Copa Libertadores de America.

    - South-America
    32 teams, 4 for Argentina and Brazil, 3 for the others.
    1º Round : 8 groups of 4.
    2º Round : 16 teams, 8 couples.
    3º Round : 8 teams, 4 couples.
    4 winners go to Copa Libertadores de America.

    - Copa Libertadores de America
    8 teams, 4 for South-America, 3 for North-Central, 1 for Caribbean.
    Home/away rounds (8 -> 4 -> 2 -> 1).
    The winner is continental champion and goes to World Cup of Clubs.
    16 matchdays (10 in geographical round, 6 in Copa Libertadores de America).

    B) Confederation Championship.

    First Round : FIFA dates (same time than Euro qualifiers)

    - North/Central : 10 countries.
    2 groups of 5 teams.
    Qualify 1º, 2º and 3º places.
    10 matchdays.

    - Caribbean : 25 teams.
    Home/away rounds (25 -> 16 -> 8 -> 4 -> 2).
    Best 2 qualify.
    8 matchdays.

    - South : 10 teams.
    2 groups of 3 (A-B), 1 group of 4 (C).
    Qualify 1º and 2º places.
    Playoffs qualify last 2 places (3A-4C, 3B-3C).
    8 matchdays.

    Copa America
    - 16 teams, 8 South, 6 North-Central, 2 Caribbean.
    Like as Euro Cup.
    Hosting in 1 of the 4 big markets (Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, USA).


    C) WC Qualifiers. 8 places (4.5 conmebol + 3.5 concacaf) and 45 teams.

    First Round : 26 teams (25 caribbean + worst north/central).
    - 13 couples home/away.

    Second Round : 32 teams.
    - 10 south, 9 north/central, 13 first round winners.
    - 16 couples home/away.

    Third Round : 16 teams.
    - 16 second round winners.
    - 4 groups of 4.
    - 1º and 2º places qualify to World Cup.

    Total Matchdays : 10.
     
  2. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    things are fine the way they are
     
  3. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    non sense!

    imagine the day argentina or paraguay need to play vs canada or guatemala, the trip will super Long!

    Blatter has probelm with the time taken to solve the 5 teams from 10 nations in 18 games.... Much worse with Micky mouse federations involved! Zones concept may work for COnCacaf, to close the gap between islands and centralamerican nations. (exclude belize and nicas, they should be with trinidad or cuba)
     
  4. danmarce

    danmarce Member

    May 8, 2004
    Quito, Ecuador
    What i think? 3 words:

    IN YOUR DREAMS!
     
  5. some0ne

    some0ne New Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    no gracias y quién va a controlar todo?
     
  6. Pibe#10

    Pibe#10 Member

    May 1, 2003
    ArmeniA
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    si se dividen en Norte/Centro/Sur, sería practicamente lo mismo, mas bien se deja así....gracias por la propuesta, mejores nos han hecho. :cool:
     
  7. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    ferx203,

    I see from the responses so far that your ideas have suffered from the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) syndrome.

    It's expected but cynical, especially when the same protagonists support the very situation (eg of long travelling & poor opponents) for other countries in order to benefit themselves & the country/confederation which they support.

    If they really support the concept of the six separate confederations continuing, then they should have no problems with FIFA granting direct qualification (ie at least 1 full place) to Oceania into the FIFA WC Finals (but I think NOT).

    Until FIFA bites the proverbial bullet & merges not only the two American Confederations (AMERICAS), but also Asia & Oceania (ASIA/PACIFIC), there will continue to be no rationality & equity in world football wrt the FIFA World Cup.
     
  8. DanRod78

    DanRod78 New Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Kansas City, KS
    That's some crazy s..t

    That looks like a f..king computer program, it didn't make sense at all.
     
  9. looks stupid can you imagine a colombia vs. barbados game

    fact being bolivia could beat the best concacaf team none of the concacaf teams would qaulify
     
  10. Bill Schmidt

    Bill Schmidt BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 3, 2003
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be interesting, but I think growing the realtionship between the two confederations is better. That includes combined top-level tournaments for the top teams, and leaving the secondary confederation tournaments (Copa Sudamericana) strictly to teams within the confederations.

    The Copa Libertadores would have to expand to even more teams, or else all the smaller countries would completely miss out.
     
  11. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    the ofc should be merged with the afc because of the lack of competition for its 2 top teams especially for australia

    on the other hand concacaf and conmebol are 2 competitive confederations therefore you would gain nothing in mergin them
     
  12. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    An eight team Copa Libertadores !!! :D :p

    What i would like to see is 16 teams competing in Copa America :)
     
  13. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    :eek: CONCACAF competitive ???

    There's only two teams there mate - Mexico & USA (just like AUS & Solomon Islands in the OFC :p).

    You've been living too long in NZ. The long-white clouds have gotten in your brain, mate.

    Get real !!!
     
  14. costa rica and honduras arent competitive?

    honduras has beaten brazil

    canada isnt competitive they have a bunch of players from the epl on there team!!

    they are competitive all on their level thats like saying the only to competitive teams in conmebol are argentina and brazil


    the other teams are competitive inside there levels
     
  15. ferx203

    ferx203 Member

    Aug 18, 2004
    Chile
    I don´t see many problems with that. Some opinions have problems with big travels and play against minnows, but, everything can be fixed.

    ---------

    Continental Championship.

    Present time.
    - Gold Cup with qualify rounds.
    - Gold Cup with Conmebol guests (Brazil U-23, Colombia).
    - Copa America with Concacaf guests (Mexico, Costa Rica).
    - Copa America without qualify rounds.
    - It´s possible for one guest win the Continental Championship
    (Brazil in Gold Cup, Mexico in Copa America).

    My idea
    - End of chance that one guest win the tournament (better).
    - More money because is more interesting for the big markets (better).
    - Everybody play qualify rounds and earn more money for home games (better).
    - Every four years is more serious (better).
    - There isn´t north-south games in qualify rounds (good).
    - No problem with FIFA, because only use FIFA dates (good).
    - 2 worst southamericans don´t play Copa America but play qualify rounds with home games (good and bad).

    ---------

    Copa Libertadores.

    Present Time.
    - Copa Libertadores with Mexican teams and Preliminary Rounds.
    - Southamericans (except Arg. and Bra.) qualify only 2 teams directly.
    - It´s possible that a Mexican team win Copa Libertadores (Southamerican Championship).
    - Central America and Caribbean have club tournaments (UNCAF, Caribbean Cup) and the best teams go to Copa Concacaf + Mexico and USA teams.

    My idea.
    - Southamerican zone without Mexicans haven´t north-south travels (better).
    - Southamericans (except Arg. and Bra.) qualify 3 teams directly (better).
    - Caribbean Cup keep the same system (equal).
    - UNCAF Cup add Mexico, USA and Canada (better teams).
    - Only have north-south travels since quarterfinals (best 8 teams), 3 games max. (good).

    ------------

    WC Qualifiers.

    Present time.
    - 4.5 for conmebol, 3.5 for concacaf. Minimum of 7 and maximum of 9.
    - Non north-south travels. But 4º concacaf play against 5º Asia and 5º conmebol against 1º Oceania.
    - Concacaf play preliminary rounds + Hexagonal.
    - Conmebol probably will play 2 groups or 5 for the next World Cup.

    My idea.
    - 8 places (middle point).
    - Only 2 or 3 north-south travels and no more travels to Asia or Oceania (depends on point of view if is bad or good).


    ------------

    North-South travels.

    Copa America Qualifiers.
    - There isn´t north-south travels because the qualifiers are geographical.

    Copa Libertadores.
    - Only since quarterfinals. 1, 2 or 3 travels depends on opponents. Now Mexican teams have 3, 4 or 5 travels when they play in Copa Libertadores.

    WC Qualifiers.

    First Round.
    - Only play caribbean teams. No problem.

    Second Round.
    - 1 north-south travel.
    - Solution : Play the first game in FIFA date of September and the second game in October.

    Third Round.
    - Depends on groups. It´s possible have 0, 1, 2 or 3 north-south travels.
    - No intercontinental playoffs.
    - Solution : Don´t play 2 matchdays in the same week.
    Matchday 1 : FIFA date in March.
    Matchday 2 : June.
    Matchday 3 : June (one week later).
    Matchday 4 : FIFA date in September.
    Matchday 5 : FIFA date in October.
    Matchday 6 : FIFA date in November.
    - Long travel effect is reduced if play one game only when FIFA have two dates. One example for an american player in europe.

    Now :
    Sunday (european league)
    Sunday (FIFA 1º date)
    Wednesday (FIFA 2º date)
    Saturday (european league).
    4 games in 14 days. 3 days between the last FIFA game and the european league game.

    My idea :
    Sunday (european league)
    Sunday (FIFA date)
    Saturday (european league).
    3 games in 14 days. 6 days between the last FIFA game and the european league game.

    -------

    Every problem can be fixed.

    =====
     
  16. yankiboy

    yankiboy New Member

    Sep 2, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    With all do respect to our Colombian friend, and to Bolivia, I wouldn't assume that Bolivia could be guaranteed a win against the US, Mexico, Costa Rica or some of the other Concacaf teams if the game was not played in La Paz.

    You might be underestimating the better teams in Concacaf. Although I think most objective people would agree that the Southern Federation is obviously far superior to ours on the whole, it's not like Concacaf teams have never beaten Conmebol teams in Gold Cup, Copa America. I realize that a WCQ would be more intense.

    Maybe I misunderstood our friend. I don't think that it was proposed that the CONCACAF teams would play the CONMEBOL teams in order to qualify. CONCACAF countries would never go for that because of regional interests. No one wants their chances to qualify reduced. It's bad for business. And in the end futbol is BIG, BIG BUSINESS.

    Very Bad idea. Very Creative. But just not practical...
     
  17. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    theres a big difference betewn the ofc and the concacaf

    honduras costarica jamaica are all competitive sides for their particular region

    australia on the other hand would have an assured place if the ofc was ever given a direct spot
     
  18. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    So how's AUS qualifying in the OFC any different to:
    (1) USA & Mexico qualifying in CONCACAF
    (2) Brazil & Argentina qualifying in CONMEBOL and
    (3) Japan & Korea qualifying in the AFC ?

    Don't those 6 teams dominate their 3 confederations' respective direct WC qualification places ? Seems that the same kind of domination isn't acceptable for AUS in its confederation.

    :confused:

    Until you target those teams & their relative positions in their confederations, then I can only think you're working from a position of prejudice & double standards, mate.
     
  19. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    argentina and brazil are two of the powerhouses of world football if you think australia have it bad the rest of us in south america know that there will be 7 countries battling out for 2.5 spots from the get-go

    yet you dont see us complaining about our allocations

    the gap betewn the usa and mexico and the other teams in the hex isnt as large as the gap betewn australia and its neighbours

    which is why there is a difference betewn the ofc and concacaf

    my opinion on the afc is that it should be merged with the ofc
    and concacaf and conmebol should be kept apart
     
  20. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think they should be merged, the travel requirements would be too difficult for the club tournament and WC qualifying.

    The only thing I would like to see is Copa with 16 with CONCACAF's top teams in there.
     
  21. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    :eek: You seem to have conveniently forgotten that it was CONMEBOL (assisted by their mates in UEFA) that instigated the FIFA backflip on direct qualification for the OFC, as they wanted the 2nd half place (6 months after it was allocated to the OFC).

    Selective memory as well, mate ?
     
  22. MoRado

    MoRado New Member

    Feb 6, 2004
    San José. Costa Rica
    Club:
    Deportivo Saprissa
    Nat'l Team:
    Costa Rica
    It seems that nobody liked this idea, but it will be cool to have one concacaf-conmebol club tournament, or to make it easy, to put like the 4 top teams of concacaf in the Copa Libertadores, not only mexican teams, right now the champion and subchampion of concacaf are Alajuela and Saprissa, both form Costa Rica, and what do they get? NOTHING!
    Also i like the fact of having 2-3 concacaf countries on the Copa America, Gold Cup organizers should keep inviting some Southamerican countries as well.
    anyway that is just my point of view, a concacaf point of view.
     
  23. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    at the end of the day it was the right think to do

    with that 1 allocation australia was assured a place and everyone knows that
    hardly fair to all the other teams that have to qualify is it?

    even the champ had to qualify

    2.5 for 7 teams or
    1 for 1 team?
    which is the fairer scenario?

    having said all that australia situation is unfortunate
    i reckon fifa should have had the concacaf and conmebol playing for their .5 slot

    and australia play the afc team for their .5 which would be either china or saudi two teams which i think australia has the quality to beat in a 2 leg series

    and for the next world cup hace the ofc in the afc(but that seems like a distant possiblity)
     
  24. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    I totally disagree. But I'm an honourable person and I somehow manage to keep my word & commitments, unlike the FIFA & CONMEBOL executives who continued their ongoing show of absolutely no honour (to Oceania) in the giving & taking in such a tawdry & political fashion.

    FIFA's motto "for the good of the game" sure doesn't count when it comes to the little guy (who obediently waited for so long to be recognised), especially when he gets in the way of the big guys' raw greed & power.

    CONMEBOL should have copped it sweet and fought for their extra place in the next WC Finals negotiations.

    This has set back what little credibility football had as a world game countless years in Oceania, but that really isn't something that FIFA or CONMEBOL care about.

    Even ALL the champs knew 8-10 years beforehand that the reigning champ would have to qualify for the FIFA WC Finals from 2006. It's been an official published FIFA policy for that long.

    Surely, you're not arguing that it was a surprise, to anyone ?!?!?!

    :eek: Lies, damn lies & statistics, mate !!!

    The actual ratio for CONMEBOL WC Finals places is 4.5 (4 direct, 1 shared) for 10 teams, whereas the ratio of WC Finals places for Oceania is 0.5 (NIL direct and 1 shared) places for 12 teams.

    The last time I looked, there were actually 12 teams in Oceania, not one (AUS) as you seem to be constantly asserting.

    If you care to look at Oceania's actual competitive games results in the field, NZ has beaten AUS for the FIFA WC Finals qualification position (1982 ? FIFA WC Finals) as well as to the last FIFA Confeds Cup.
     
  25. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    What, are there no aeroplanes & airports in North & South America, unlike those in Europe, Asia, Africa & Oceania ?
    :confused:
     

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