Conference Realignment

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by SammyP, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. GalaxyBowl

    GalaxyBowl Member

    Aug 21, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    obviously all these schools can't pay talents to keep flocking to their schools but there is a reason they keep attracting top talent. It seems like there's no hope for colleges outside those conferences to be competitive in the Nationals. What could a UMass Lowell, Harvard, CSU Bakersfield, etc. do to build competitive squads that can challenge those bigger conference teams?
     
  2. BigGreenTruck

    BigGreenTruck Member

    College: The Thundering Herd of Marshall
    Aug 29, 2023
    South Charleston WV
    The same thing Marshall and WVU are doing. Recruit internationally. The only way anyone is going to compete with the so called blue bloods who go get all or most of their players from MLS Academies is to recruit the international who is just as good as the MLS Academy kid and just might be a step faster than him too.

    I listened to Jeremy Gunn whine and complain about schools who take international student athletes but he has no problem going and getting MLS Academy kids who have already signed a pro contract or at lest a futures contract. The ones that aren't ready for a pyramid tier yet. In other words he just expects those outside his comfort zone should just go down to the local HS and pick up Jimbob and Billyboy and be happy with 8 wins a year and that way he doesn't have to worry.
     
  3. The Big Dig

    The Big Dig Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 25, 2020
    1000% The mid majors that are sneaking in and competing with the perennial powers have maximized their internationals and are good at recognizing a diamond in the rough domestic player that was overlooked by others. You can also get an international who is much older and mature mentally and physically. Look at Bryant's turn around in one year.
     
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  4. StubbyWubWub

    StubbyWubWub New Member

    Nov 29, 2023
    Very well said. The top programs would be happy if everyone followed a domestic only model because they'd have distinctly less competition - it would become so boring because the same programs would be in the tournament every year.
     
  5. BigGreenTruck

    BigGreenTruck Member

    College: The Thundering Herd of Marshall
    Aug 29, 2023
    South Charleston WV
    Chris Grassie at Marshall recruits international but he recruits college age kids. The oldest on the Marshall roster right now is 22. We will have 2 turn 23 at the end of the season next year. Im glad Grassie doesn't go out and find the 24-26 year old. Ive always complained that BYU has always had an advantage over others because they will have 24-27 yr olds playing for them at times. Since their students have to do 2 years of missionary work between their Soph and Junior years.

    And their is no mid majors in soccer, there might be smaller schools. But here is an example of that. Marshall's Chris Grassie is the highest paid men's soccer coach in the NCAA. Also Marshall has the 4th highest soccer budget in DI behind Clemson, North Carolina and Stanford. And well the Sun Belt is right behind the ACC now in terms of conferences. And has had the #1 seed the past two years.

    The term Mid Major or P5/NP5 was started in the early 90s in a way to try and separate the so called "Big Boys".
     
  6. swalton333

    swalton333 Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    Jeremy Gunn won a div 2 national title by doing exactly what he's complaining about. He won a national title because of john cunliffe. A player he would have had zero chance of getting if he was American.
     
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  7. BigGreenTruck

    BigGreenTruck Member

    College: The Thundering Herd of Marshall
    Aug 29, 2023
    South Charleston WV
    I didn't follow him at Charlotte but I assume he done the same thing there. He was Charlotte's head coach when they made the title game in 2011. If you aren't a blue blood no way you can be competitive with just recruiting the American HS circuit. It's just not possible.
     
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  8. VASoccer75

    VASoccer75 Member

    Oct 28, 2015
    2011 was a very different time than it is now. Not defending it either way just pointing out he did it with 5 internationals (3 British players, 2 Canadian) and mostly NC based players (one of which was arguably the best player on the team)
     
  9. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Caleb Porter did it at Akron. His only international when Akron was the perennial championship contender was a Jamaican dude.

    You could argue Akron is a blue blood, but they really weren't (they'd been got but not elite) till Porter took over.

    UC Santa Barbara's glory years were almost all Americans, save for a giant Brit and a Ghanaian future rapist.

    It can be done, but it's hard and rare. Even most of the so-called bluebloods these days recruit internationally. With so few of the top Americans playing college soccer anymore, and scouting budgets being limited, coaches tend to travel the path of least resistance and that's often going abroad. (Or the transfer portal... often for an international.)
     
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  10. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ken Lolla helped put Akron on the map as well.
     
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  11. BigGreenTruck

    BigGreenTruck Member

    College: The Thundering Herd of Marshall
    Aug 29, 2023
    South Charleston WV
    Akron wasn't exactly a blue blood but they also wasn't just your run of the mill school with men's soccer. I put Akron in the same category as Kentucky and Georgetown. Right on the fringe of blue blood status. Although I don't know if the so called blue bloods would accept any of them.
     
  12. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Well, Georgetown has become a consistent contender this decade without A) being in a Power 5 conference and B) using many, if any, internationals. (1-2 per year, often from US prep schools).

    They're another example of a school being able to win with almost all domestic talent if the coach commits to it. It helps, of course, that Georgetown is an elite academic school with a storied athletic brand in a swanky neighborhood in a destination city. (Also means money becomes an issue as it ain't cheap to be a Hoya.) A lot easier to win with almost or almost all domestic kids when you're recruiting them to a Top 25 academic school with a riverfront view in the capital of the free world.
     
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  13. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    True. But Porter took them to the next level.
     
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  14. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    UCSB best players were English, Ghanaian, New Zealand, Ireland, Canadian and Spainard.
     
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  15. The Big Dig

    The Big Dig Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 25, 2020
    I use the term mid-major as a figure of speech, not trying to get into semantics but point taken. There is also no power 5 in soccer, it's an American football term but I think some people use it similarly. As for the age, everyone has to pass NCAA amateurism, right? Some countries require military service as well, find an advantage and use it in my opinion. Anyway, the Sun Belt is definitely a very good conference now, totally agree!
     
  16. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    This is the NCAA hockey model, too. The Big Ten schools and a few others (North Dakota, Boston College, Boston University) dominate the domestic "market" for American future NHLers who matriculate at 18 or 19. The rest focus their recruiting on Canadians and overage Americans who were a tier lower who generally get on campus at age 20 or 21 after playing juniors somewhere. So, it's younger talent (who only stick around for a year or two before going pro) against 24 year old seniors who don't have the same ceiling.
     
  17. gauchodan

    gauchodan Member+

    Oct 18, 2016
    OSU and Wazzu to the WCC as affiliates.

     
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  18. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    It wouldn't trickle down to soccer, if it ever does, but I'll be curious to see what happens to the ACC if Florida State leaves. The conference's non-revenues benefit greatly from the ACC being a power conference in soccer. If FSU leaves, it might be the beginning of the end of them being a power conference.

    And if FSU does leave, it'll be interesting to see if it leads to other schools (Clemson, UNC, Miami) leaving as well.
     
  19. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    I read that UNC was right there with FSU as the ones itching to break from the ACC and move somewhere better.
     
  20. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    If they find the "state" loophole invalidating the Grant of Rights contract in terms of anti-trust. You will see Clemson/FSU to SEC and UVA, UNC, and maybe Ga Tech to Big Ten in a heartbeat (with Notre Dame to follow shortly thereafter). Some restless nights I'm sure for the current ACC Commissioner.
     
  21. TheCoach561

    TheCoach561 New Member

    United States
    Feb 7, 2023
    This is incorrect, its Sasho, and a few others arw quite close, I would say Noonan may be above this now after another natty
     
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  22. TheCoach561

    TheCoach561 New Member

    United States
    Feb 7, 2023
    this was 14 years ago the recruiting landscape is so much different, Ohio is also a big soccer state and many akron alums work at clubs in the cleveland area and breed players for akron and they get them in state tuition and cheap, now they can add internationals with the other scholarship dollars
     
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  23. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Any thoughts on why other mid-major (or low-major?) schools with similarly low tuition costs and strong player pools close by aren't able to create that kind of consistent player pipeline (UIC in Chicago comes to mind and maybe UW Milwaukee, but there are plenty of others that I've wondered about)?
     
  24. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

    Jan 8, 2012
    San Diego
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. TheCoach561

    TheCoach561 New Member

    United States
    Feb 7, 2023
    It is tough to say to be honest, there is always drama between local colleges/universities and the clubs in their cities. Some years not taking kids that maybe club coaches deem suitable but the colelge coach not or a club coach sending some of their top players to schools away and not grooming them locally. North Carolina is a state that is great soccer wise too and i feel the d1's dont do a good enough job of the local talent and Florida is similar, everyone has their niche markets and what they like, California is probably the best at keeping their talents in state
     
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