I was trying to convince you that they belong to a lot of organizations including the AAA. BTW, I never realized that they were so anti-Israel, advocating eliminating aid to Israel while giving so much to Egypt, Turkey, and Pakistan.
My foreign policy views have always been right of center on most military, geostrategic issues, not just Israel, which used to be a leftist cause until it looked like Israel might just survive after all. I'm not sure where you're going with the hate Arabs/Moslems crap...
I know you can't understand, it's because... 1) This kind of widespread sentiments are useful for your preferred foreign policies to develop. Come on, look around, arabs and muslims are crap. Anyone knows. 1 billion persons. 2) You're blind. Not just because you're stupid but also because you don't want to see it. 3) You're not arab, you're not muslim.
Listen, clone of the clone of Peter Parker, I already noticed you're a confused guy. Leftist views in interior politics, rightist in the foreign policies = what we call in Italy "destra sociale" ie Social rightist. People often very near to old benito. You should discuss this issue with Spejic.
So now I'm racist and fascist. You left out rapist. Someday you will learn that people who disagree with you aren't evil (or stupid, greedy, insert pejorative) I happened to believe that America does a lot more good than ill in international policy. If we invade Ethiopia to expand our "empire", I'll have second thoughts. I remind you that I didn't even support the war in Iraq. If the entire world consisted of 174 Swedens and 1 USA, then I would be more like you. If there were 174 Swedens and 1 Israel, then I could understand your obsessive, single-minded, almost pathological criticism of Israel (which I shouldn't always respond to). And the last if is...if the Palenstinians wanted a state that didn't have Jerusalem as their capital, I might think they (and you) were serious about peace.
Playing the victim? With "obsessive, single-minded, almost pathological criticism of Israel" you mean that I argue, in threads concerning that precise topic, using the logics, docs, links and a neutral attitude instead of your unilateral views based mainly on the bible. You should also understand that many of your US related threads are just boring for me, and when they're not boring my little knowledge about those issues prevents me from sharing my "point of view". My attitude is different from that of typical US pro-israelis. Ben, I am happy if you're not racist or fascist, you should only avoid to let ppl wonder about it with some pitiful arguments. Anyway what i told you about "destra sociale" is right, if you can read italian I will suggest you a dedicated message board. You're not obliged to like benito, being them nationalists, it is even more likely you don't like a foreign man. Try this http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools
Should I? Your arguments are nothing more than a rehash of Arab propaganda mixed with a smattering of Israeli far-leftism. You're only neutral in the sense that you're not placing yourself in front of Israeli bulldozers. Good for you. As for the Bible, you may not believe in the Bible, but you can't ignore the history of that era. It's the ONLY reason why Israel gets so much attention, a tiny piece of land with hardly the worst problems on the planet (care to discuss Zimbabwe?) I mention "obsessive" because you're the one starting post after post about Israel, as if it's the only country that matters. Once in awhile, Europe (obviously trivial in comparison) gets a thread. BTW, I support a united Europe. I assume that people who are against Israel will be against Israel after Big Soccer discussions. If the new tactic is to claim "anti-Arab" whenever arguments arise, have fun with it. I support civil liberties (not an extremist, but left of center), which is in sharp contrast to fascists. There are so many other differences, but this is a truly silly discussion.
You say this just because you see the whole problem from a die-hard proisraeli point of view. A really dumb one also. Ben, I'm not obsessed, I'm interested. The same can be said of you, don't you think? If someone posts something diverging from your proisraeli "bible" (metaphorical) you reply 100%, most of the times with pitiful arguments, nonetheless you feel entitled to reply. Whenever a thread about Zimbabwe would come out I will read it but I'd have probably very little to say. Regarding the israel-Palestine conflict I have a lot more to say and this is why you get nervous. Also I don't understand why you want silence, or a monophonic choir, about Israel. You play tactics. For example the tactic to portray me as an obsessed. Or the tactic to transform any discussion in a silly historical one where you try to convince ppl that palestinians don't exist. Or the tactic to ask for a thread about Zimbabwe as if you really cared. You should try the "valid objections" card. If you didn't realize yet I won't stop saying what I think, I won't stop posting the threads that drives you crazy, nor the links, nor the maps. Anyway, unfortunately antiarabism exist and it is developing as "literate" antisemitism did in 19th century. And also you have a role in it by spreading "clever" notions as "palestinians are ugly terrorists, that's all you got to know about Israel and occupied territories". Ok you're not racist, you're not fascist. You have a weird attitude against anything arab or muslim but you're not racist. Happy?
As dumb as saying that Jews should have had their state in Europe? You start from a fundamentally rejectionist perspective. By pitiful, you mean not straight from the PLO web site (by the way, you used to be more polite- now it's racist, fascist, dumb, pitiful, etc. etc.). Actually, I want Israel to be treated fairly. For whatever reason, you ignore vastly worse human rights conditions in nearly every other Middle Eastern country. Israel is the focus of all your anger. I'm quoting Palestinians. Again, I can't be faulted because they've changed their strategy. It's not that they don't exist, but that they don't have any historic national claims. You've even agreed as much in so many words. You've compared Palestinians with regional groups within various countries. It puts things in perspecitve when you start a thread about Israeli pilots. It's strange when people are more interested in 27 Israeli pilots than countless millions of Africans with AIDS. I like maps. Please keep posting them. You post yours, I'll post mine. I've said that they're mostly not interested in peace with Israel. Is this the place for someone to say "one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" Fine, but expect the other party to fight back. No, but if it makes you happy to believe this, that's fine.
Point of order Ben and Sardinia, I mean no offense to you but I personally found the demonstration of delusional psychopathology being performed by Mr. McCracken and Mannyfreshstunna a bit more interesting. Also, while I have no wish to disrupt the time-honoured tradition of incredibly wide-ranging thread drift, please kindly permit me to mention that Mr. McCracken's and Mannyfreshtunna's attempts to deny away the obvious are actually relelvant to the title of this thread.
Re: Point of order Indeed. And Fresh-Fish hasn't answered my missive...because there IS no reasonable answer.
You're right, pardon. That Ben thinks he is Nesta guarding on Vieri is not a sufficient excuse. I think though that my first post was and still is on topic. I was giving an explanation of why the phantom wmd are now being "materialized" in Syria or in the Bekaa Valley. Then Ben "Nesta" Reilly tackled.
Re: Re: Re: Cont... I disagree with your statement that 9/11 was a crime, and we must only punish those directly involved with it. This is where we went wrong after the first WTC bombing. We only went after the single individuals who committed the act, rather than dismantle the networks that fund,aid, and disperse them. The same goes for gov'ts that harbor terror. This limited action failed horribly in 1993, and I for one am glad that we are going to the real source of the problem. I guess you'd rather see large networks dispersing well funded and well armed cells into different countries. Act only when confronted eh? This tactic may cause many Americans their lives should we ever forget the past and repeat that mistake.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cont... Learn to read; are you going to actualy force me to quote myself? OOOOKKKAAAAYYY... America is wrong. 9/11 was a crime, not an opprtunity. It demanded sobering, grim pursuit of the conspirators (the perps, of ocurse, being dead), in the unending effort to bring them to justice... Indeed, I precisely submitted that those who conspired with the criminals need to be brought to justice and tried in courts of law... wow...is this - or is this not - a perfect, THE perfect example of how you don't read, or don't understand basic English (like "conspirators")? In any case, even if we agree on this point, we'd probably disagree on the process; somehow, you're able to perfrom this intellectual osmosis that allows you to see the invasion and occupation of two nations as "bringing conspirators to justice and trying them before courts of law." I, on the other hand, take a little more literal approach to that... I think that you and your intellectual kith and kin ought to just admit it: Its when the going gets tough, when its actually HARD to do, that you are TOTALLY willing to trow away your principles for a little safety, whereas me and mine submit that in tossing away the Constitution and the rule of law, we might as well toss away everything, b/c after that, there's nothing WORTH saving... For you, there's nothing worse than death, and this culture of fear seems to dictate flexibility in your notion of what America is; for me, there are dozens of things worse than death, and I call on all of us to answer the challenge of being a nation ruled by law EVEN when its difficult to do, indeed, especially so... that's the difference, at the core of it, between those who think like you and those who think like me...and what a difference it is. One line of thinking has us grimly pursuing all those still living who conspired to execute the crime of 9/11, in an effort to bring them to justice, in a reflection of the fact that institutions of law have real meaning; the other has us abandoning our set of decision-rules in order to pursue an agenda that cannot even be attached to the crime of 9/11, inreflection of the operating principle that instituions of law and justice have only the temporary meanings that serve us, that we can get away with... Right now, we're citizens of a nation that reflects your values; I have no optimism that that will change... But I have hope...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cont... I thought that was due to your proclivity for gay group sex. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
The Palestinian's don't have any historic national claims over Palestine, eh? Maybe you'd care to explain this statement.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cont... Once again, you are being extreme. I don't think we are anywhere near a "life or liberty" descision. You would have us think so, but it isn't the truth. PS. i'm no fan of the Patriot Act;i'd just thought you'd like to know. PSS. Thank you for not making any reference to my post at all.
He's saying there was never a nation called "Palestine." I think. The West Bank used to be Jordan, but they don't want it anymore.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cont... On the contrary - it's sailing over the upper deck and into the parking lot. He got all of that one.