CONCACAF WCQ Appointments [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. Fanison

    Fanison Member

    May 8, 2012
    MD9: JAM-MEX: Cornejo (SLV)
    MD9: USA-SLV: B. Lopez (GUA)
    MD9: HON-CAN: Parchment (JAM)
    MD9: CRC-PAN: Elfath (USA)

    MD10: CAN-USA: Ramos (MEX)
    MD10: PAN-JAM: Brown (HON)
    MD10: MEX-CRC: Martinez (HON)
    MD10: HON-SLV: Herrera (CRC)

    MD11: JAM-CRC: Marrufo (USA)
    MD11: USA-HON: Nation (JAM)
    MD11: SLV-CAN: Villarreal (USA)
    MD11: MEX-PAN: Barton (SLV)
     
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  2. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding the USMNT, I'd have to say it's nearly a given that we'll see Martinez, Escobar, and Barton in some order on those last three matches unless noted below. I would imagine those three will be rotating around the matches involving the current top four unless 1) multiple teams are already automatically qualified or 2) someone start getting close to the fourth spot.

    Regarding Hall's departure, something happened to hasten the departure in my opinion. Whether CONCACAF was upset with the haphazard (at best) VAR rollout or Hall rubbed people the wrong way one too many times, you just don't usher your current refereeing director out and bring in someone from Europe in an interim capacity unless the departure was hastier than planned. I'm guessing Hall was already planning to leave either in the summer or after the World Cup, but an event occurred that everyone just decided it was best to cut ties now.

    I'd like to think Rizzoli could at least tell CONCACAF referees to issue cards more, but then I remember how he allowed Neuer to truck Higuain in the 2014 World Cup final without even a foul called, and I'm not so sure . . .
     
  3. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a US fan I'm concerned Tyler Adams might pick up a yellow card tomorrow and miss the Canada game.

    Anybody have any info on the yellow card tendencies of Senor Lopez?
     
  4. gold4278

    gold4278 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do we know the VAR assignments for these? How many ended up being PRO/FMF?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At a base level, you have to presume that Mexico-USA is Escobar. Barton got the return leg and Honduras plays Mexico immediately after the match, so it can't be Martinez. Escobar is and has always been the only referee who makes sense. Even if both teams were qualified at that point, I think you still have to give it to Escobar.

    MD 13, based on the rules thus far, means it can't be a Canadian or a Costa Rican. But then it is also possible it can't be a Mexican if the US/Panama is still in competition for qualification. So, yes, you start to look toward Barton and Martinez but the issue is that those guys will be in demand for the other matches because very similar restrictions will be in place for the Canada v Jamaica match and the Honduras v Mexico one (though Martinez obviously can't do that match).

    MD 14 is very challenging to plan for at all but the problem is you do have to plan before you see what happens on MD 12 and 13.

    It is a mess. For both referee and VAR purposes, CONCACAF really needs at least one team qualified after MD 11. That could solve all the problems--particularly if it's USA or Mexico. But that seems unlikely, right?

    Another thing to consider now is Rizzoli's presence. It sounds like, nominally, he's in charge. It also is worth noting that there are only a few competitive UEFA games in that March window, so lots of available UEFA referees. Would Rizzoli pull that trigger? CONCACAF member associations would hate it, but Rizzoli really isn't serving them as a constituency, so I think it's at least somewhat plausible. After all, that's how the end of 97WCQ was handled--including Collina coming over to work the final US match. So there is precedent.

    And one final issue to factor in here. I recently got some intel that there is a debate over whether WC22 needs the same number of referees as WC18. The argument is, apparently, that Qatar is so small, with so little travel issues internally, that FIFA can take fewer referees from each confederation. The reason I bring this up is that there may be a fight for a final third slot instead of a final fourth slot. And that puts extra pressure/import on the assignments for the referees who would be fighting for that final slot.

    A lot of this is right.

    I think Rizzoli is a caretaker here and the most influence he'd have is over appointments and who replaces Hall (if he has any there). I don't think you'll see Rizzoli suddenly rock the boat on instruction regarding the final few matches of a WCQ campaign.
     
  7. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    As he was on the pitch, as a refereeing politician, Rizzoli rocks the boat as minimally possibly. I'd guess - though I'd like to be wrong - has been appointed to change realistically as little as possible, and then Hall's full time successor will have a freer hand to do as he (or she!) wishes.
     
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  8. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why overthink it? Irmatov isn't doing anything in March either.

    :)
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha.

    You know, from a pure conjecture standpoint, I would note that this Rizzoli appointment didn't occur out of thin air. Collina had to have a hand in it. And if Collina had a hand in it and it's temporary, the final few matchdays in CONCACAF would be a perfect opportunity to test a few referees from other confederations who are on the borderline for a WC appointment. It's almost too sensible/obvious when you step back, given all the other internal pressures/difficulties on CONCACAF appointments already. Give Escobar his game. Find a game for Barton and Martinez. Let Jamaica/El Salvador and Jamaica/Honduras go to "other" CONCACAF referees and... voila, you're left with seven matches that need seven big-name referees. I think Rizzoli can figure that out.
     
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  10. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    He is retired!
     
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  11. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    That call has been discussed ad nauseam on this board, but there wasn't a single referee in the world that would have made the call. I think now there is a really good chance that we would see a foul called on Neur there, but in 2014? No way.

    I wasn't giving a foul there on my amateur or college matches in 2014 at that time yet we expect a call there in the World Cup Final? Come on.

    Neur got the ball and then just trucked Higuain after. Yes it is a foul and it's reckless and bordering on excessive, but there wasn't any instruction or expectation at that time to call that on keepers once they got the ball first.

    That wasn't Webb missing a karate kick to the chest. The call was barely discussed by any pundits at the time.

    What was ridiculous about that decision was that Rizzoli actually called a foul on Higuain somehow and, remarkably, everyone but Higuain accepted.
     
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  12. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #637 RefIADad, Jan 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    I probably should have added a smiley emoji. My comment was more than a little tongue in cheek given the current state of addresing misconduct in CONCACAF.

    The UEFA referee idea for that last CONCACAF match window is certainly interesting. I'm not going to dive into all of the intricacies, but there are nine matches for the UEFA playoffs. I would assume some of the really big guns like Makkelie, Turpin, Orsato and Taylor could have two matches as long as they don't do the semis and final of a single pod and don't work in the pod of their country. My guess would be you'll have 2-3 referees work a semi and a final, so that would mean six referees along with related fourth officials and VARs.

    So that would leave some pretty good UEFA referees without matches to cover. Maybe you don't send someone like Michael Oliver over to CONCACAF as he'd probably work as Taylor's fourth for any matches Taylor centers, but I'm sure there are other referees who could see a critical CONCACAF match as a way to boost their stock.

    EDIT - another very plausible solution with Rizzoli "in charge" would be to have more UEFA referees handle VAR duties. At least that would increase the experience of those working VAR outside of FMF and PRO.
     
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  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welcome back CONCACAF! We missed you.
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tactical fouls have no bearing in CONCACAF.
     
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  15. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I’ve seen worse so not half bad on the CONCACAF scale
     
  16. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Heavy contact to the ankle in JAM—MEX on a challenge. VAR awarded a send off in the 45th minute

    Clears the ball and the follow thru landed on the ankle.
     
  17. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This guy is like Craig Pawson. Nothing awful happening, but he’s not confident and just doesn’t seem to be up for it. He’s jittery and is calling every little touch now.
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the Jamaica red from VAR. Feels like a no intervention in UEFA. Follow through after playing the ball is in the ankle and not necessarily excessive IMO.

    https://www.clippituser.tv/c/yzwxkd
     
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  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haha. Obviously missed red cards like this are exactly why CONCACAF needed to introduce VAR.

    I’m in a bit of shock. The result isn’t the best but that’s just not a clear red card. He went into the challenge before he even knew where the Mexican’sl leg would be. And the Mexican is the one who arrives late. I can get behind reckless—basically because you have to. But if that’s a clear red card… CONCACAF is about to have its world rocked.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. But in some ways his calling every little thing has probably helped protect US players. It’s been a bit annoying. And he’s had some dumb misses. But in the grand scheme of things, given the alternative possibilities, this has been fine. Bordering on good. Relatively speaking, of course.
     
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  21. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    A recommendation for an SFP red card in the Canada Honduras game sent down after a long delay. Referee did not agree and kept with original decision.
     
  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll have to see if a clip pops up. Paramount doesn't let you go back on live streams.
     
  23. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Added note: the referee did NOT give a yellow (which he should have). Kept as simple careless foul. So things are going well…
     
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  24. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4 minutes of stoppage time is a joke. I have 7 minutes. Not that I’m complaining.
     
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  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You didn’t bet the -1.5 line?
     

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