CONCACAF WCQ Appointments [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member

    Red Bull NY
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They should market this as an option... "Stadium Experience" -- We give you all of the camera angles you enjoy, but none of the useless banter. If you leave the room and don't know a goal was scored, well that's just like getting a beer during the match at the venue, only here you can use your DVR.

    We won't tell you what to think about the game, the tactics, or the players. You have to decide for yourself!

    Then, they should have optional vuvuzela filtering.
     
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  2. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    The NFL did that for a few games many years ago.

    (I often do it for myself by listening to the Spanish broadcast, as I only know enough Spanish to pick out key words, not enough to understand any tangential blather . . . and no one does goals quite like the announcers in Spanish!)
     
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  3. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Another follow-through SFP incident, this time in WCQ Panama vs. El Salvador handled by Marco Ortíz (MEX). What do you make of it?

     
  4. davidjd

    davidjd Member

    Derby Rams; SJ Earthquakes
    Jun 30, 2000
    Wilmington, NC (strong California ties)
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to say that I loved the MLS is back tourney when they just had field audio.
     
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  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Quotes from The Guardian article on the qualifying competition:

    "Original refereeing is one of the quirks of Concacaf,"

    "Considering the number of brutal challenges that go unpunished or under-punished in Concacaf fixtures, with Tuesday’s games no exception, red cards as well as disallowed goals might have an impact on which teams reach Qatar next year."

    It's not just us!
    Total disgrace, embarrassment and shameful.

    There used to be many very good referees in CONCACAF, back in the 80s, 90s and 00s, mostly from Mexico, USA and some individual Central Americans. It is a mystery what has happened, (but maybe not).

    PH
     
  6. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I just watched the highlights of the Scotland-Denmark match. It looked like a real football match, totally different from whatever game was being played and officiated in Edmonton.

    PH
     
  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is what baffles me about CONCACAF.

    The rest of the world thinks their competition is substandard. I don't understand how the confederation can look at this and say, "yes, this is what we want to show the rest of the world!"

    To put it bluntly, the rest of the world thinks our competition is a joke. If we are to be taken seriously, then the standard of refereeing needs to improve. It's as simple as that.
     
  8. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    would you throw this under that bucket of lack of respect for the game UB instead of SPA?
     
  9. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member

    Red Bull NY
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me reckless fits better than that.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It used to be that you couldn’t caution something like this for “reckless” because holding was (and still is) one of the fouls that isn’t subject to the C/R/E matrix. So a few years ago, aside from the obvious SPA component, yes I’d write this up as “game disrepute.”

    But now the “challenge” foul bucket allows this to be reckless. This is a reckless challenge. If not worse.

    In the end it’s all semantics. The list for unsporting behavior isn’t exhaustive. You can simply write it up as UB (other) and be done with it if you are worried about which bucket to pick. The behavior is quite literally unsporting.
     
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    You still could go with a reckless foul for holding. The USB explanation does not restrict the reckless caution to the CREF fouls:

    “commits in a reckless manner a direct free kick offence”

    (I feel like it used to be only CREF fouls, but I didn’t go back to check)
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can’t cite chapter and verse on LOTG history either, but recollection of the old LOTG is that clause you cite simply didn’t exist. It was understood that reckless = caution, and so on. I don’t think it was ever explicitly stated. Do I have that wrong?

    Anyway, I think the language is ambiguous or at tension with itself. The first section of Law 12 still says only certain fouls are seen through C/R/E. While the text you cite has no restrictions, a literal interpretation of it means we could have “reckless handball” or “reckless spitting.” So I still don’t think we are supposed to have “reckless holding” and “challenging” is the safer path.

    But ultimately it is down to semantics and doesn’t matter. UB covers it, no matter what you choose.
     
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  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're three weeks away from a massive three match day window and we will have VAR for this. We've started to see assignments come out 10 to 14 days prior in the past couple of windows so perhaps something as soon as next week.

    But obviously since we'll have VAR, that means this thread should really have nothing to talk about. ;)
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My advice to all of these people who are going nuts about English refereeing is to watch this next round of CONCACAF matches. My guess is they'll go back with an understanding that maybe things aren't all that bad with PGMOL. :)
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's the best source we have confirming that there will be VAR?
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While still finding it odd that CONCACAF hasn’t officially said anything through its channels or on-the-record to media, I’m now quite confident this is happening.
     
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  17. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thinking about this a little more, it boggles the mind that CONCACAF hasn't gone out and said anything official about this. Don't get me wrong, I still think this is a bad idea. But...

    It sounds like CONCACAF knew in November that it had made this decision. And assignments have been known by the officials assigned to January matches for a decent while. So... why not announce to the world that this is officially happening and own the decision? Let people know that this has been in the works for a full two months by the time matches start getting played. Demonsrate you responded to the calls for VAR (whether they were misguided calls or not is another question). Announce that you have been planning for this and accelerating training. Own the decision and explain what has been done to get prepared for the final matchday windows. Show the world you're ready and that this won't be haphazard.

    Instead, there's a rumor mill with outlets like Radio Jamaica reporting on it and a few stray Twitter comments with no official word. So assignments will leak about 48 hours before the matches, with no CONCACAF press release or briefing, and it will look to the masses like things were thrown together at the last minute. I mean, I feel like I'm pretty plugged into these things and even I didn't know it was happening until last week. Just seems like a huge PR miss--and maybe even a mess waiting to happen. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we get a VAR disaster followed by commentary about how "CONCACAF just decided they were doing this a couple days ago."
     
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  19. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Everything you've written seems very reasonable and well-planned.

    Which is why CONCACAF would never execute it in this manner.
     
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  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Indeed--whether it's true, not true, or still being decided, seems the smart move would have been to have an official announcement. The silence is just plain weird.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear, it's happening. I jumped into the thread last week last week precisely because there had been no official announcement and I was skeptical. But assignments have been communicated to officials and those assignments include VAR spots.
     
  22. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure but honestly this is not much different than Radio Jamaica. This article and the one linked to it has an unnamed "CONCACAF official" as the confirming source. I know it's true, so fine. But why isn't CONCACAF out there owning and talking about this decision and the implementation. No one is willing to put their name on it and go out there and publicly explain, defend and advertise what is about to happen. That's media relations malpractice... unless you're more concerned about explaining the aftermath of implementation.

    Also... the source article alleges that one of the last impediments was non-FMF and non-PRO officials not having VMO FIFA badges, which they now have for 2022. I mean... first of all, c'mon. FIFA had Alan Kelly VAR an U20 WC Final; the idea that a trained VAR can't work an international match because he/she didn't yet have a VMO badge is laughable on its face. To allege that was the (or a) big hurdle and suddenly everything is fine because the calendar says 2022 is laughable. Said Martinez couldn't VAR a match in November but now he magically can? Sure.

    Perhaps more importantly, it does seem to imply we are going to see a bunch of VARs who have very little actual experience doing it and this won't be a replay of the Gold Cup with US, Canadian and Mexican VARs taking almost every position. So... that sounds fun!
     
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  24. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Cesar Ramos (MEX) and his team will represent Concacaf at the Club World Cup next month in UAE.
     
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  25. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No signs of assignments yet for the upcoming trio of MDs?
     

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