CONCACAF WCQ Appointments [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Second legs:

    Curacao : Panama - ORITZ (MEX)
    Canada : Haiti - VAZQUEZ (USA) [Rockwell/Blanchard/Penso]
    El Salvador : St. Kitts & Nevis - HERRERA (CRC)

    Scoreless draw in Curacao, so Panama advances (27 fouls and no cautions is a stat line that is as interesting as it is surprising--but maybe not in CONCACAF).

    Canada is scoreless at halftime with 15 fouls already, so Vazquez is having fun.
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #27 MassachusettsRef, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
    The own goals to end all own goals might have ended the Canada-Haiti affair as an interesting contest.
     
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  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I figured you had to be exaggerating but it turns out you were not. You might have under sold it. Had I seen that in an over 50 mens league I would have said wow. In a world cup qualifying match. I don't know what to say.
     
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  4. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    It likely didn't help that, somehow, Haiti was unable to obtain visas for four of their starters...

    I really don't know how that's feasible nowadays... but meh.
     
  5. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Ortíz gave a penalty for Panama (handling).



    1:30ish in the video BigSoccer doesn't like my YouTube timestamps :D
     
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  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's one where I don't think I ever got a replay that convinced me either way.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #32 MassachusettsRef, Aug 26, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
    Appointments for the Hexagonal starting to trickle out. I'll come back and update this post for the first three matchdays until it is complete:

    Matchday 1
    Canada : Honduras - GUERRERO (MEX)
    Mexico : Jamaica - BROWN (HON)
    El Salvador : United States - CALDERON (CRC)
    Panama : Costa Rica - BARTON (SLV)

    Matchday 2

    Jamaica : Panama - CORNEJO (SLV)
    United States : Canada - NATION (JAM)
    El Salvador : Honduras - LOPEZ (GUA)
    Costa Rica : Mexico - ELFATH (USA)

    Matchday 3

    Panama : Mexico - ESCOBAR (GUA)
    Honduras : United States - HERNANDEZ (MEX)
    Canada : El Salvador - MONTERO (CRC)
    Costa Rica : Jamaica - FISCHER (CAN)

    Maybe Parchment or one of the Costa Rica referees for US v Canada? Or even Ramos? It's too early to be sure it's a pattern, but from the three published assignments on MD1 and 2, no referee is working a team that their national team faces the next matchday. One hopes that is deliberate. If so, it does help somewhat with being able to predict assignments.
     
  8. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    I thought Calderon (CRC) had been appointed to El Salvador - US. Was there any change?
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe? I don’t know if I have old info, new info or bad info. For what it’s worth, someone else got it too and decided to edit the relevant Wikipedia page—and that was before I posted here.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You were right. Old or bad info on my part. Apologies. Matchday 1 in full is:

    Canada : Honduras - GUERRERO (MEX)
    Mexico : Jamaica - BROWN (HON)
    El Salvador : United States - CALDERON (CRC)
    Panama : Costa Rica - BARTON (SLV)

    Post above updated to reflect these.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With those updates, if the pattern/restrictions I think are going to emerge are actually emerging, that would come close to assuring an American on Costa Rica v Mexico and/or Canada v El Salvador. Those are the only options available if CONCACAF will avoid having a referee officiate a country that his team will then play on the next matchday.
     
  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many assignments will we see for referees not from the 8 nations playing? There's the one or two from Guatemala. Are there any more from the Caribbean?
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lopez was the other Guatemalan at Gold Cup, right? And then I think Radix of Grenada was the only other official from a non-Octagonal country to be named as a referee for the tournament proper (but then not used). I bet you see Escobar 4-5 times, Lopez 2-3, and then maybe Radix once or twice.

    One would think, if CONCACAF is operating in any serious or competent way, that the Gold Cup list is the Octagonal list. Once you allow for using referees within the Octagonal from participating countries, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to dive below your top 20 referees just to use a lower-ranked referee at what would, undoubtedly, be a more consequential moment (later stages with qualification on the line). Again, thinking logically, it makes far more sense to import CONMEBOL or UEFA referees on matchday 7 or 8 than to use referees you didn't trust for the first portion of the competition from Caribbean countries. Right?

    Depending upon who qualifies when, there might be a scenario where you can get by without importing officials or dipping below the Gold Cup tier. But if that doesn't happen, I hope CONCACAF has a plan other than Escobar working at least every matchday.
     
  14. soccerref69420

    I literally only watch soccer games to watch the refs
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Not directly CONCACAF match related, but I got some official (non-electronic, sold by the CONCACAF ref gear distributor) CONCACAF referee flags that I saw online and they rule.
     
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  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mighty big assumption there! :D
     
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  16. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    MD2
    US - Canada: Nation (JAM)
    Jamaica - Panama: Cornejo (SLV)
    MD3
    Honduras - US: Hernandez (MEX)
    Canada - El Salvador: Montero (CRC)
    Panama - Mexico: Escobar (GUA)
     
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  17. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To get back on the serious side of things, is it fair to assume that we'll also see Elfath in this group? I know we're already seeing Barton in MD1, so that's one of the CONCACAF Olympic referees. Add Elfath, and then I would imagine you're seeing the full roster of referees for the competition. As you said, MAYBE you get into second tier for any dead rubber matches, but given the impact on World Cup seeding I can't see too many instances of potential matches in that realm.

    But as we've said before, CONCACAF doesn't always operate in the best interest of sporting integrity. I just don't see them bringing in UEFA or CONMEBOL referee crews unless all of the teams stand up and demand it. Even then, CONCACAF may just give the appeal a dismissive wave.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Elfath was on the Gold Cup list. So I was counting him, yes. At this point he seems more likely than not to go to Qatar so he’s a guarantee for the Octagonal. I kind of expect him to be in Costa Rica for MD2.
     
  19. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Question for experienced refs:

    How does refereeing without VAR affect the approach or decisions of refs (centers or assistants) who have done games that use VAR? I am sure the desired and maybe reflexive answer is: 'it doesn't." But I find that a little hard to believe because refs are human. Do you have any opinion? I ask it here, because it applies to all the refs doing CONCACAF qualifiers.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you're unlikely to get an authoratative or detailed answer to this. The number of referees you're talking about--who regularly use VAR and then go into competitions where they don't have to use VAR, is very low. For the US, we are talking about our top FIFAs and then a few additional handfuls(?) of referees or assistants in MLS who also work D1 college.

    The only poster or lurker here who falls into one of those categories (well, both for him!) and is public about it is @coreyrock, I believe. If he's around and has a few minutes, maybe he'd like to offer his thoughts. Anyone else would be outing themselves as an MLS official who falls into the buckets above or guessing with no first-hand knowledge.

    I also find it hard to believe it's an easy transition and have said so previously re: UEFA competitions, but I'm just guessing.

    Oh, one substantive point, though... for most of the referees in the Octagonal, this won't be a big change. No referee in CONCACAF outside MLS and Liga MX uses VAR regularly. So while it will be a big change for Mexican, American and Canadian referees, it's not a change at all for everyone else... which is precisely why we don't have VAR for this round of qualifying.
     
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  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I would *guess* that one of the hardest challenges is for ARs. With VAR, they are supposed to delay flags completely differently. (And, apparently, don't concern themselves with GK movement on PKs.)

    In *theory*, with the exception of certain delays, the R should be reffing the same with or without VAR. But I think there are places we see differences in decision making, whether conscious or unconscious, on things that can be reviewed (SFP/PKs in particular). I don't know it is even possible to know what the real impacts are going to be coming from the VAR environment to working without it.
     
  22. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Any update on the Matchday 2/3 referees?

    Have two Mexican refs assigned so far, but no American.....
     
  23. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    2' of SLV-USA: maybe it's the weird camera angle, but that sure looked like a corner kick.
     
  24. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Solid first half from Calderon. Tyler got away with a 100% reckless tackle in there.
     
  25. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The production quality of the camerawork would have needed to be stepped up several notches to make VAR worthwhile in El Salvador.
     
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