CONCACAF WCQ Appointments [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Alabama, USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Any idea what happened after the final whistle in CAN-PAN? Laryea went after Villareal and Rockwell seemed to be trying to calm him down. Teammates had to drag him to the locker room after he tried to go back at him twice. Seemed an odd reaction after such a convincing win. I assumed something must have happened.
     
  2. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Admittedly, I had put this game on my phone by the time this happened, but I thought he was going after a Panama player. Did I see things wrong? In any case, that was a really strange reaction after such a convincing win.
     
  3. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Alabama, USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    I may have seen it wrong - not a great camera angle
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you think a CONCACAF VAR and referee would somehow have that result as a penalty against a home team in a qualifier after not calling it in real-time, I just fundamentally disagree.

    To be honest, I think there's some merit to saying the tackle is fair. It's really close. Does the US defender tackle the player first and then play ball (foul) or does he get his leg in a fair position and tackle the ball away as he gets kicked (fair)? I'm not sold in either direction, though admittedly lean somewhat strongly toward foul.

    But I don't think this reaches the C&O standard in MLS; I think this is a "call stands" either way. CONCACAF would be much tougher to guess at, but if we know anything about CONCACAF referees we know they don't want to give unpopular big decisions. There's just no way this results in a penalty via VAR given what we've seen from CONCACAF VARing so far.

    Overall, I thought Parchment was fine tonight. Bordering on above average. But he was helped immensely by the fact that Costa Rica just seemed to want to play and not engage in any of the typical tactics you'd see in a match like this. Imagine if El Salvador or Honduras was up 1-0 away to the US inside one minute? The cramps would be starting before the clock hit the 15' mark. The fact that there was almost no gamesmanship tonight from Costa Rica, without any discernible intervention from Parchment, was actually quite surprising.
     
  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just never thought Richards ever got the ball. There’s contact, and the goal line angle (for me) showed a pretty obvious foul. I’m not complaining, particularly after the two missed DOGSOs in the Jamaica game. But if I’m in the VOR booth and see that, I’m thinking C&O.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he definitely plays the ball away, but we'll have to find a good clip to see which one of us is right, I guess!
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    36' in El Salvador is a very, very ugly tackle. Yellow from Fischer. Probably expected result here. But I think it's red in MLS.
     
  8. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Alabama, USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    From a friend who was at the game, Laryea was spat on by one of the Panamanian players after the end of the game.

    Unconfirmed so take for what it's worth
     
  9. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that’s true, it makes sense. I was thinking spitting or a racial comment on first impression. Whatever it was, Laryea was really upset about it.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gutsy and correct call from Fischer for DOGSO red at 48' in El Salvador. I also think the penalty call over DFK is correct.

    I think there's a chance that no other referee in the Octagonal gives that in real-time. Maybe Barton?
     
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  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    67' 2CT is also very good from Fischer. Clear as day, but very good.

    With that said, I think both 61' (ill-advised advantage and potential VC) and 66' (penalty appeal) are both worth looking at for analysis purposes if we get the clips.
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Penalty at 91+ is stonewall. No card is curious but maybe understandable in the moment.
     
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  13. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Nah, I think the gift came when Hoppe made that challenge around 84' at the top of the box. No reason to do that.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    15 yellows and 3 reds from the PRO refs this window. Not very CONCACAFy.
     
  15. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Maybe they just remembered their training and how to apply the LOTG.:rolleyes:

    PH
     
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  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe they know Hall won't stop using them even when they do their jobs.
     
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  17. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    What an excellent VC call by Said Martínez in the Costa Rica vs. El Salvador match!

    Clip:
    youtu.be/hdR-e5nQhE0?t=5216
     
  18. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Some scenes from the Mexico vs. Honduras game handled by Ismail Elfath:

    Video clip:

    2:02 - striking incident at 21' [decision: yellow card]
    2:20 - tackle incident at 28'
    4:33 - correct RC for brutal SFP + DOGSO scissors tackle at 49'
     
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  19. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    In al seriousness, I think it has more to do with confidence and experience at this level when compared to the substandard officials from the Caribbean and Central America that we have been seeing.

    I have no idea how anyone could step up and do a good job on WCQ match with the minimal experience these referees have had. It is simply a recipe for disaster.

    Compare this to the experience and competence required of referees in UEFA before they get anywhere near such matches. The vast majority of professional league referees there, who are by most standards very good officials, never get on one of those matches, and the same applies even for some on the FIFA lists.

    PH
     
  20. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the announcers complained about it! What the replays missed on this is that the whole challenge was *after the whistle* had already blown on the previous challenge. So while the announcers were dissecting the tackle to see if he meant to hit the achilles, they ignored the fact that there should have been no tackle at all anyway.
     
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  21. Crewster

    Crewster Member+

    Jan 28, 2005
    Worthington
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where should Caribbean and Central American referees work to obtain the necessary experience?
     
  22. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    That's not the point. They don't have the experience needed, and if suitable experience is not available for them locally, which in many cases it clearly is not, then they are not able to be appointed to games at this level. Harsh, maybe, but that's just the way it is.

    PH
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I presume you have red for all three here, correct?

    This is one of the few Octagonal games where the VAR question is interesting, because we’ve seen Elfath use it so much this year. I think he 100% gives red on 28’ in MLS. And maybe 95% gives red on 21’. Of course, it’s unlikely (I hope) all three incidents happen if the first one is given. But it does show another possibility about VAR and CONCACAF… and that’s that some games could devolve into farces if misconduct was properly punished. Of course, given the amount of farces we already have…
     
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  24. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    In most professional matches, the behavior of the players is influenced by refereeing decisions. If someone gets a red card at e.g. 21' the team now playing short modifies their approach, not wanting another red card. Likewise the other team also modifies their response, wanting to maintain their advantage, and also probably thinking that the referee may be looking for a chance to even things out again. So probably does not become a farce

    But if a clearly deserved red card is not given at 21', then the players will keep playing the same way, thinking, often correctly, that a red card will not be produced subsequently. This results in the type of farcical matches and decisions we have been seeing in WCQ in CONCACAF this year.

    Rarely there are exceptions to this, e.g the infamous Portugal-Netherlands match at the 2006 WC!

    PH
     
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  25. Funny enough the players themselves had a different perception of the match from the referee's one. They thought it wasnot that bad at all:D
     

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