CONCACAF WCQ Appointments [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought that was only being trialed in MLS, its not a full Laws change yet. Or am I wrong?
     
  2. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I could swear I heard it mentioned as being in effect at the Euros, but I could be remembering incorrectly...
     
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  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It has been trialed in a few places, as I recall. I don't recall if the Euros was one of them.
     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clatt's incorrectly stated that it was. There is no concussion substitution in WCQs. The only mention about concussions in the regulations is that the referee may suspend a match up to three minutes to allow a player to be assessed by a medical professional.
     
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  5. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of questions for you refs of you are kind enough.
    The boot to Yedlin's ribs inside the box right before Pepi's shot. Is that a foul outside the box? I think it was about 68 minutes.

    On the goal, is the Panamanian attacker allowed to obstruct Turner?

    Thanks.
     
  6. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The last 20 minutes last night and the extra time was concacafery at its finest. Not near enough time added then no additional time for the fan buffoonery. Joke.

    And no its not sour grapes because we lost. I posted plenty of that in the post match thread. This continued piss poor CONCACAF officiating is just mind boggling. We all know reffing is hard and soccer is one if not the toughest sport to do. We get that. I never reffed anywhere close to this level (HS and a few college matches). But where do they find these guys? Basic understanding of the laws is horrific. Not talking about judgements but not knowing the foundations.

    1. The first Jamaica foul is textbook DOGSO. Should have been no hesitation on the refs part to pull our the red.
    2. The second foul at the box from Jamaica. As mentioned already forget the judgement of whether that's a foul or not. In the refs viewpoint that was a foul. Therefore it has to be read. As far as DOGSO that was clearer than the first foul on Arriola. Not even a question its a scoring opportunity.
    3. Ok so the ref last night decides to only add 7 minutes (his watch must be slow because that wasn't near enough) but ok 7 it is. No additional time added for fans on the field/throwing extra ball on the field. Fundamental error. Again not a judgement thing that was a mistake a HS ref shouldn't make.

    PATHETIC.
     
  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    We’ll, in HS there is not added time, as the clock is stopped at certain times, which I suspect was done exactly because NFHS didn’t trust refs to add the proper time. As for the 7 minutes, that isn’t just a CONCACAF thing. Watch any game with long delays, and the added time is always less. I’m not defending that practice, but let’s not pretend CONCACAF is on an island on that habit. But I agree on the added time delays—particularly when it is the fans of the home team leading by a lone goal, it’s outrageous not to add the lost time back on. By not adding it, the buffoons win, which is quite unfortunate.
     
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  8. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I'm a little late to the party in regards to the Jamaica vs. US match and the two decisions that are bordering on scandalous, laughable and embarrassing. Take your pic what adjective you want to use.

    I agree with your overall point, about him possibly being "not ready." I think so many people are missing the forest from the trees.

    Take your pic of CONCACAF referee and I would not have been shocked/surprised if they produce a yellow in the first minute like Radix did.

    Other than the Mexican FIFA referees, I could see every FIFA referee from every other country in CONCACAF make that decision even the US FIFAs.

    Heck, we saw Elfath miss a pretty easy DOGSO (maybe even more obvious than the one in the US vs. Jamaica match) at the Olympics only to get bailed out by VAR.

    A former MLS AR and current AVAR somehow thinks the yellow was the right call???

    We've seen the likes of Pitti, Aguilar, etc. miss some of the most obvious decisions over the years on Gold Cup, Nations League and World Cup qualifying matches.

    Pitti had a second caution put to him on a gold platter in the Mexico vs. US Nations League Final and he dropped the ball. Yet, we expect a referee from Granada to give a red card one minute into a World Cup qualifying match?

    For whatever reason, CONCACAF referees just are not willing to make the expected decision no matter how easy or obvious it is. I can't explain it and I can't understand.
     
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  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #309 MassachusettsRef, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    Since there was so much discussion about Radix not getting a Gold Cup game, I do think it's worth noting that Herrera of Costa Rica got Jamaica-Canada, when he was not even at the Gold Cup. Just reinforces the idea that the pool will be a little larger than what you saw at the Gold Cup.

    As we near the end of the second window, a full review of the referee assignments to date:

    Matchday 1
    Canada : Honduras - GUERRERO (MEX)
    Mexico : Jamaica - BROWN (HON)
    El Salvador : United States - CALDERON (CRC)
    Panama : Costa Rica - BARTON (SLV)

    Matchday 2

    Jamaica : Panama - CORNEJO (SLV)
    United States : Canada - NATION (JAM)
    El Salvador : Honduras - W. LOPEZ (GUA)
    Costa Rica : Mexico - ELFATH (USA)

    Matchday 3

    Panama : Mexico - ESCOBAR (GUA)
    Honduras : United States - HERNANDEZ (MEX)
    Canada : El Salvador - MONTERO (CRC)
    Costa Rica : Jamaica - FISCHER (CAN)

    Matchday 4
    United States : Jamaica - RADIX (GRN)
    Honduras : Costa Rica - ESCOBAR (GUA)
    Mexico : Canada - CORNEJO (SLV)
    El Salvador : Panama - NATION (JAM)

    Matchday 5

    Jamaica : Canada - HERRERA (CRC)
    Panama : United States - RAMOS (MEX)
    Costa Rica : El Savlador - MARTINEZ (HON)
    Mexico : Honduras - ELFATH (USA)

    Matchday 6

    United States : Costa Rica - PARCHMENT (JAM)
    Canada : Panama - VILLARREAL (USA)
    Honduras : Jamaica - B. LOPEZ (GUA)
    El Salvador : Mexico - FISCHER (CAN)

    So far, referees with two matches:

    Elfath
    Martinez
    Escobar
    Nation
    Cornejo*
    Fischer

    Cornejo was a replacement for Barton in his second match, otherwise it would be Barton's name here.

    Seems as though Escobar will work every window. So that would give him 5 matches.

    Marrufo and Escobedo are the only two Gold Cup referees yet to have a match.

    Reading the tea leaves for the big USA-Mexico match in November is very difficult. The only restrictions would be no Jamaicans and no Fischer, but neither was likely to happen anyway. So it's probably a straight tossup among Martinez, Escobar and Barton. Though, the Mexico-US match in March can't be Martinez, so that might be the argument for him to get the November match and then Escobar or Barton to do the one in Azteca.

    EDIT: updated with the last MD6 assignment and to correct my mistake over not identifying two different Lopez referees
     
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  10. Fanison

    Fanison Member

    May 8, 2012
    El Salvador : Mexico: Fischer (CAN)

    BTW in September Walter Lopez was the referee, tomorrow it will be Bryan.
     
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  11. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it odd that Elfath has done two matches of the same country (forget that it's Mexico - I'd be saying this if it were Canada or Costa Rica) in the first five matchdays? Just seems like CONCACAF would want someone like Elfath more available for bigger matches in some fashion later in the cycle as well.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #312 MassachusettsRef, Oct 13, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    Is it likely that the big matches will involve Mexico later in the cycle? And, if they do, could they have an American on them at that point?

    Not saying Hall has this planned out masterfully (ha!) but there are some things that are foreseeable. Plus if Mexico will take Elfath readily, that probably helps, too.

    The weird thing is no Marrufo at all. But I have to imagine there’s a plan there.
     
  13. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to think there’s some plan with Marrufo. But I’d also guess his inability to work both Mexico and the US (and possibly Canada given the MLS connection) makes assigning him very difficult.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Villarreal is on Canada so that’s not an issue. And I’ve heard the block on Mexico has been lifted in theory, we will see if it matters in practice.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks, will update now and fix my mistakes!
     
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  16. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great job by the Jamaican AR who got the call (not offside) right on the opener in USA v CRC tonight.
     
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  17. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we got a MAJOR gift from Parchment on the potential Richards penalty at 39’.
     
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  18. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to wonder if, from behind, it looked like Richards got to the ball first rather than making contact with the CRC player before the ball.
     
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  19. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think VAR calls that a clear and obvious penalty.
     
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  20. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, for sure. I looked at the replay again and Parchment was in a terrible spot to get that call right the way the tackle happened.
     
  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We’ve all been there. Parchment was straight-lined.
     
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  22. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh for sure. No way he's going to call a penalty without being 100% sure he's making the right call.
     
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  23. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Why was played stopped in the ‘79.
    US pressing and zero indication of a head injury. In fact, he grabbed his toes as if he had cramps
     
  24. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That probably should have been a caution in the 85’
     
  25. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Thoughts on Pepi getting knocked down in the 2nd half going for a header....never showed a replay on the live broadcast, so have no idea how significant the contact was.
     

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