Concacaf v Oceania Playoffs drawn

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Guinho, Nov 26, 2021.

  1. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just took the "pre-match" prefix off the thread title. Does that solve the problem? (Thanks to @Winoman for the helpful heads-up.)
     
  2. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks!
     
  3. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Johns Creek, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    I don't really have an issue with Oceania not having a guaranteed WC spot. The Caribbean doesn't get a guaranteed spot, neither do West Asia or Central and Southern Africa. OFC only exists because it's too difficult logistically and financially to include all those tiny island countries in AFC. That doesn't in my opinion entitle them to a spot. Plenty of regions are not represented at the WC.
     
  4. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    But it is still a confederation, each confederation should be represented. The regions you mention are part of a confederations. Caribbean teams can compete for 3 full stops allocated to C'CAF. If they are among the best in their region they get to go. Oceania don't have that.

    World Cup is a Cup between the best teams of each confederation not between the best 32 teams in the world.
     
  5. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Johns Creek, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #130 Every Four Years, Dec 9, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
    I understand politically the argument, I'm just not wedded to the confederation concept. Those are just arbitrary lines. Of course they reflect regional diversity to some extent, but in this case I don't see the need to give a full spot. A half spot is more than fair and still more than many regions get guaranteed.

    I don't disagree with this, I just don't look at it in terms of the confederations. Of course I understand politically that FIFA allocates based on confederation since that is how world football is organized. And to a large extent this guarantees a measure of geographical diversity. But I don't see that it makes much of a difference to achieving that objective whether NZ (let's be real, it's always going to be NZ) qualifies for every WC or not, especially when Australia qualifies most of the time anyway. They're basically covered anyway, regardless of the technicalities of confederation membership.

    Anyhoo, as I said I understand your argument here and where it comes from, I don't want to belabor this point, that's just how I look at it.
     
    Hexa repped this.
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Oceania could be part of Asia with more pre-qualification games like CONCACAF does. Split into several regions and then add the leaders of those groups into the final round. I think N and S America could also do that but I think S America is very wedded to their model and it will be hard to ever get a change. The part that is stupid to me is that literally three countries (the three worst of course) are included in S American qualifying but are instead lumped off to good 'ol CONCACAF to weed out and label them Carribean countries (Well then aren't Colombia and Venezuela also Carribean?). So S America got to pick the ten they wanted while CONCACAF got stuck with their rejects. As an aside Trinidad and Tobago and Curacao are literally a few miles off the coast of Colombia and Venezuela but instead of being with the teams next door are of course in CONCACAF.
     
  7. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I don't see any sporting reason for any SA team to join C'CAF. A merger won't do C'BOL countries any good. The travel would be a nightmare. With the expansion to 6 spots I doubt any SA countries will want to move.

    Even now, I doubt anyone would want to move. Venezuela never been to a WC and it's been a while for Bolivia but moving to C'CAF won't guarantee their spot. Also, staying in C'BOL let their clubs play in the Libertadores/Sudamericana and Copa America is usually exciting.

    Colombia and Venezuela are South American countries. While part of Colombia and Venezuela coasts are on the Caribbean plate and the Caribbean Sea that doesn't change the fact they are located in the SA continent. Mexico's Quintana Roo is Caribean but I don't think anyone would consider Mexico a Caribbean country.
     
  8. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I don't think that was what happened. I believe that at the time C'CAF was created (1961) the footballing gap between the regions was huge, and the gap between C'CAF members weren't that big. So it was natural to place the Caribbean with N and C America.

    But would C'CAF be interest in becoming a 10 member region (loose 31 Caribbean members) if this would mean loosing a couple of WC spots? 1.5 spots now and 3 after the expansion to be able to get rid of the "rejects".

    C'BOL with 41 members would surely warrant more WC spots. Bolivia and Venezuela would be game. I wound't mind also. We would have to change the qualifying and club competition format - copy UEFA format, but it could be done for extra spots.
     
  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    There's basically only three reasons to do it, and 95% of the overarching #1 reason would be exclusively $$$. You gain access to the #2, #10 and #15 economies in the world, and access to what that bring beyond where it already is in terms of marketing growth in North America and Mexico. The other two reasons probably should be an additional 3 (if Canada holds up as a power) and that's adding another 3 nations that clearly would rank inside the top 3-7 sides in a combined region when they are in good form, and not as bad as 8th or 9th even when they're bad (in terms of Mexico and USA, we need to wait and see w/Mexico).

    It's interesting, but yeah, Conmebol's only interest that would be persuasive would be on the monetary side. The potential growth from combining could be huge especially w/the ceiling of growth potential in America which is insane.
     
  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana are also in S America and they are not in CONMEBOL but are in CONCACAF. That was the gist of my pointing out the discrepancies that CONMEBOL has. Also that Trinidad and Tobago is a few miles off the coast of Venezuela while Curacao is a few miles off the coast of Colombia and neither is in CONMEBOL. So I get why CONMEBOL is happy with their ten countries but it's disingenous of them to act like they could never combine with CONCACAF even when three countries in their continent aren't in their federation and others are miles off their coasts.
     
  11. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    IMHO, monetary gain isn't a valid reason. C'BOL isn't strap for cash. I don't think federation money is our problem. The problem is lack of money at the club level. C'BOL became a feeding farm for UEFA. Don't think a merger with C'CAF would help clubs.

    Most of SA fans really liked Mexico teams in the Libertadores. They were very competitive and I think if they were to participate it would increase the quality of the competition. That is the only up side IMHO for a merger.
     
  12. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    A quick search showed C'BOL was created in 1916, while:

    Guyana (British Guiana) was part of UK until 1966. FIFA affiliation in 1970. C'CAF affiliation 1969/1971 (was a long process I guess).

    Suriname was a dutch colony until 1975. FIFA affiliation in 1920, C'CAF affiliation 1961.

    French Guiana is still part of France. No FIFA affiliation, they are part of France and can NOT compete in FIFA tournaments as a country, C'CAF affiliation 2013. They can only compete separate from France in C'CAF regional competitions.

    So when C'BOL was created all the Guianas where a colony and not affiliated to FIFA as separate nations. But you are right they should join C'BOL, I see no problem with that. Also, adding just 3 regional members, 2 FIFA members doesn't affect WC spots for C'BOL and C'CAF.
     
    Dr. Gamera and Pegasus repped this.
  13. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Can you imagine the burden of say Iraq having to make the trip all the way out to New Zealand, New Caledonia, Vanuatu, or Tahiti once or twice every cycle? Yikes. I mean it's bad enough that they have to go to Japan or Vietnam.

    Or... think of the poor New Caledonian FA taking regular qualifying trips to the UAE and Iran.
     
  14. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Johns Creek, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #139 Every Four Years, Dec 12, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2021
    In a vacuum where we didn't care about nearly a century of footballing tradition in the various confederations, East and SE Asia would be paired with Oceania, maybe add in South Asia too, and the West Asians could be paired with the North Africans. Sub-Saharan Africa could be its own confed.
     
  15. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I suppose that would make at least as much sense, except as you say, about a century of tradition.
     

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