Pre-match: Concacaf Nations League Quarterfinals @ Jamaica (Nov 14) & v Jamaica (Nov 18)

I can't speak for everyone who thinks it's a mistake, but labelling something a plan is not really the same as having a "plan" in the connotative sense.

Even if you think Musah at RB or Ream at LB is a good idea, then is it also a good idea in every situation? Why not bring a FB and then see how it goes this week in prep and how it goes and what the game state is in Kingston or at home? Seems arrogant to me.

 

to underline the dishonesty of the argument, pulisic was first senior capped march 2016, then went back and among other things played at least 4 U19 league and cup games for dortmund after.

he's pretending like we have some sort of nonexistent rule against it, or would judge harshly a player getting age group time like his form fell off.

BULL.

 

c'mon, be real. this dude plays semantics games or ritually defends what the coach does -- then calls it analysis.

his little politically-triangulated hill here is to attack the critics for saying this is poorly planned by distorting that as no plan then splitting hairs what we meant.

he knows darned well what we mean. not that he has no ideas at all. but that what we can discern his plans are, look foolish.

if it goes well "enough," our colleague mocks the straw man he made us into.

if it goes badly, he reminds us he was just parsing words and acts like it was about exposing extreme viewpoints, which there never really were.

 

So we have yet another way available for CONCACAF to screw us. VAR is a poor excuse for actually calling he match and produces so many slowdowns and reversed calls as to be nearly useless. "Getting it right" is a poor excuse for making the game more like the worst parts of baseball.

 

since people are just making stuff up.

2011 US played consecutive games against mexico. gold cup got bradley fired. followed by a friendly which was klinsi's first. even a similar dynamic of domestic coach goes down in flames at tourney followed by friendly games under new management.

when that occurred, 6 starters were kept on the roster, plus 1 bench player (7). 5 starters and 6 bench players were dropped entirely (11). out of an 18 man list. so 11/18 of the new coach's players were guys who were not even dressed for the tournament elimination game.

similarly, in 2016 arena took over from klinsi after the CR/MX double loss. he had a january game in between.

he, again, kept 6 starters, dropped 5 of them off the roster. kept 2 bench dropped 10. so 15 new guys.

for comparison, uruguay vs. panama (since we had a caretaker between):
7 starters kept, 4 dropped (but basically all injured.....richards reyna adams balogun);
8 bench kept, 6 dropped.

my counts may not be perfect but you get my point.

so that's 15 guys who got the coached fired who get kept, including 7/11 of the lineup. it runs roughly a 2/3 proportion in favor of before.

and that's being indulgent considering some of the guys "out" are injured as opposed to a decision being made. thus mckennie and richards and such are now back.

i then hear "but he cut lund," but you go back and look at june vs. now, and it's basically lund, moore, seanjohn, and LDLT. that's it. and remember lund survived the first call sheet. he's only getting cut now.

that's very light axe work of basically bench players.

so, it's not even close to the same how it's been before when the team screwed up and the coach got fired.

people can now return to the utter malarkey rhetoric about how the coach usually brings back the same people just got the last guy fired. on what planet. they usually swing some axe.

in part because i am not getting fired playing the same guys got the last guy fired.

in part because there is usually abundant tape of what just happened and what i want to know is what i DON'T KNOW about this team. so who else can i call?

they then circle back around to old team players if they think they went too far or can't find anyone better. eg when GB took over he tried trapp and yeuill. circled back to bradley. then eventually landed on a healthy adams. he did not just keep playing bradley. bradley got dropped, revived, then dropped again when the results stayed the same.

[and it bears noting we are now talking about 25 man lists, where some people are never even close to the field.]

 

This time of year in Jamaica anything "dirt" will probably be mud. They do get an unreasonable amount of rain and there is currently a hurricane forming or already formed nearby. But, should it actually be muddy, it may limit our attack but it will also limit Jamaica's speed and it will tire everybody faster. Another match played in the mud in CONCACAF would not be completely unheard of.
At least, on a muddy field, serious injuries are less likely.
If we actually face the rain and mud maybe we should use the second string and play for a draw. That is usually a horrible strategy but, in this case, discretion might well be the better part of valor. The old "Play for a tie on the road and for a win at home" just might be the way to go, this time.

 

my deal is i get it if some injuries happen in camp or people show up hurt and you have to improvise. though this was more convincing back when you had 18 or 23 man dress situations. but you can't control everything and may find yourself on a plane with different than the original plan. ok, who else do we have on this plane that can be a contingency at position x.

and even then, historically, the US might have a new added player meet up with them at city B for the second game, just in case. which no longer seems to happen. we only drop.

it is less defensible, to me, (a) in the 25 man era of endless rosters (b) to call 25 guys on the dot -- no cuts like we used to have -- and (c) with 14 subs still have holes any fan can see. ok, where're x and y's backups?

and then some yammering dude says but a and b play x/y. except a and b also start elsewhere. so you're borrowing from peter to pay paul. and if you do that in-game the switch is tired.

 

Do you really think that Mauricio Pochettino called in this roster with absolutely not idea what he'd do if one of Jedi or Scally went down?

I mean, again, feel free to disagree, but c'mon. I'm not sure why the basic assumption is the man isn't doing his job.

We've already called in more than has made the roster. Whether folks like it or not, calling in guys with minimal chance to make a roster is something coaches don't like to do, because it doesn't seem all that fair to the player. And it's more people to train.

Arrogant? Perhaps. I'd bet most coaches are arrogant in many respects. I think you've also got to pick and choose what you are working on, evaluating, what you build multiple contingencies on. Fans tend to pick at the edges of a roster -- I'm willing to bet Poch is far more focused on Pulisic, Weah, McKennie, Richards, etc., and getting them flowing creating a second contingency plan for injuries.

Will that be a good allocation of time and resources versus the others? I don't know.

It's worth noting that Poch has had Ream in camp and Lund. And Fossey and Musah. So he's working off not just film but potentially practice time.

Or heck, if we end up going straight 343 ... then this probably is the roster you'd want.

I guess there just should be an allowance that the guy might be right.

 

re lineups for the 2 games, that feels stuck in the past few years' silliness where we seem obsessed with all star team style stat meritocracy.

what you do is find 15-17 players you trust in any environment, who execute your scheme and consistently play well.

then start 11 of them towards some sort of tactical goal that night. so away would be team defense and people who can create from nothing or off dead balls. or you figure out a scouted exploit and call to that.

home is then a more aggressive offensive unit.

there is a silly idea that departing from some theoretical best XI for the away game is leaving merit. the whole 15-17 should be the merit. you then pick tactics and not all stars.

when we figure out the idea is execute a game plan within a scheme as opposed to field stats streak guys or hype fanboy favorites as the perceived best 11, this will start improving.

 

The number of people who think this elite manager doesn't have a plan is really weird to me.

Get over the position labels.

Yunus Musah, Weston McKennie, Tim Weah, even Christian Pulisic...............have all played wingback in elite club soccer.

In the system Pochettino used at Spurs and Southampton, the wingbacks often played in an even more advanced position than the midfielders. Very, very important players in his system.

Coaches' Voice | Mauricio Pochettino: tactics and formations

The full-backs heavily influenced his teams' attacks. At Southampton, Luke Shaw and Nathaniel Clyne were key; at Spurs, it was Danny Rose, Kyle Walker, Kieran Trippier and Ben Davies. While at Southampton, Pochettino only ever used back-four systems, at Tottenham he also used those players as wing-backs ahead of a back three. The width his full-backs or wing-backs provided helped his teams bypass opponents applying a high press, with the goalkeeper able to play direct balls out to them. In attack, they helped create overloads in dangerous positions and stretched the opposition's defence, which then encouraged penetrations inside the opposing full-backs. Full-backs advanced out wide encouraged supporting forwards to get closer to the lone striker.

 

Dude he was in the stadium watching Ream play LB and getting matched up against Figundo Torres the whole night against OC on Sunday.

 

I don’t use that unless the person is making personal attacks over a period of time.

Diversity of viewpoints is a good thing, not something that has to be burned at the stake.

There isn’t a person in here I haven’t both agreed with and disagreed with.

 

Uncle Gregg kept Reyna in the team when he shouldn’t have. By all appearances he played Gio when he should have been resting him or using him as a sub. Why? For the same reason he played Tyler when Tyler should have been on ice: they wanted to play.

Uncle Gregg ultimately lost his job by trusting Gio to create offense for him and gave Gio privileges that he didn’t even give Pulisic.

 

i think you can question roster decisions/construction without thinking you know more than poch, or that hes arrogant, or doesnt have a plan, etc.

just like you can think theres almost certainly enough depth/flexibility without reflexively defaulting to this being some honeymoon period in which the manager is infallible, and i think theres a good bit of that going on.

id say im about 70/30 there. ive mentioned it a couple times already but i really think we would have a little more respect, or caution, or something with 2 matches in 4 days windows after the last two qualifying cycles but here we are. and no, this isnt 12 guys and a bunch of scrubs but jedi and scally (who ive addressed in detail) arent guys we can just replace by sliding someone over.

poch isnt unique here. weve tripped over our dicks taking that quick turnaround (with little prep in general, much less a new manager) for granted with far more established, "settled" teams.

there are no roster limits so even looking at it as 10 minutes of relief for jedi in kingston and being able to take him off for 10 more (presumably) with the result in hand at home theres no reason not to bring in lund (or whoever). cause yes, it is a little arrogant to say weve got another guy (much less a handful of them) who can do what he does. exactly how far removed from "anyone can play left back" is that?

and what does it cost us (or more specifically poch)? we all know hes barely waded into the shallow end of the pool, and he isnt exactly adhering to his own stated standards yet. theres obviously some leeway there as those go hand-in-hand, but it simply doesnt track that lund (or whoever) is out/there are no other options better than "whatever, wes can probably do it".

the last two nuances ill mention here are 1) its not like weve played even remotely well enough to be overly confident in months (especially against a team who have done their part to teach us a little humility more than once), and 2) if there is an injury/suspension/inexplicable concacaf nonsense that requires a big performance, or a significant change tactically im not sure how confident any of us should feel, much less overconfident. everything ive said until this point has been best case scenario, hoping not to run jedi into the ground just cause we can.

i really dont see how "theres nothing to worry about" is any more valid than questioning roster construction, and its telling how many (and who) are making that an argument.

 

"You want it to be one way, but it's the other way."

 

I guess I admit I am concerned that Pochettino did not give this his full attention. I think his explanation that he might have done something differently for the gold cup suggests he didn’t evaluate the situation correctly.

I am not assuming he isn’t doing his job, I’m just looking at the available evidence. Have you seen a football coach mess up going for 2-point conversion or use timeouts at the wrong time? Coaches make mistakes. They are rarely rocket scientists.

Since Musah and Weah have never played FB for the Nats, it seems at least questionable to rely on them as the only backup option in a competitive match. That criticism seems valid and logical even without assuming anything about Pochettino.

Now if he’s going to play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, then things are different. And he might not be tipping his hand publicly. If that’s the case, (and they look organized when they do it) I’ll tip my hat.

 

I'm not saying he's right, but commenting that you don't think there's a real plan implies that he just jotted off a roster without much thought at all.

It's possible, but it doesn't really seem likely. Do you think he didn't notice the situation? Someone emailed him a roster and he okayed it without looking?

Perhaps he's taking a bigger risk than the Gold Cup. But I really doubt he thinks whatever he has planned is terribly risky or isn't going to work.

Again, he could be wrong, and I think it is entirely valid to question the decision. I just think that the idea that he doesn't have a plan is odd.

So yeah, "I am worried about Weah's ability to do X" or whatever, I have no issue with. I'm very worried about the idea of Ream playing LB -- which will likely really be LCB, but still.

But there is a plan. And I highly suspect it's not a stupid plan. I mean, question all you like, but can we at least acknowledge that maybe if we have to play Ream as a LB, it'll really be a LCB and maybe he'll change things to cover with XYZ and so on.

That doesn't preclude criticism. But I don't know why the assumption is always that the coach is doing the dumbest things possible.

I mean, the dude seems very thoughtful at minimum. I just don't get the idea that he hasn't thought about it extensively.

Doesn't mean he's right or it is a good plan.

I mean, he's clearly not going to go into detail pre-game.

 

I had Wiley and Reynolds on my roster, Would I play them? Nope. Emergency? still, kinda nope?

Berhalter was last seen playing Weston at RB.

Looks like Poch just more or less went the consensus when you think about it, TBH.

 

I don't know what Poch is thinking with the lack of backup(s) at outside back but I do believe it is an interesting question; one that brings up more interesting questions. One thing is for certain, we don't have anyone that can play left back the same as Jedi, heck there aren't all that many anywhere. That means a like for a like is impossible. We can probably find a left back that plays a similar style but I don't think that is the way to go. Think back to 2010, we lost Charlie Davies. Who did we bring in? A guy that, as far as I could tell was supposed to be a like for like but other than speed he wasn't up to the task.

I'm not arguing that leaving a true left back at home is or isn't the right choice, but I think the answer to his thought process might lie, in part, with exploring alternative paths. Maybe that alternative path is formational, maybe it is personnel, maybe I'm just full of sh!t.

If I am full of sh!t, I don't really care...it's just the internet and I'm just a guy that thinks he knows more than he does....

 

I think it’s early in his tenure and I wouldn’t read too much into anything yet.

 

Seems like Pooch is taking the approach of bringing the best players available in his eyes and trying to build a system around them that will work, rather than the opposite.

Whether his player assessments are correct or it works or not remains to be seen, but many of us have been calling for more of this type of an approach.

if Ream ever replaced Jedi you can be assured that he would not be getting forward like Robinson does. He would be functionally a left CB regardless of what you call him.

 

Once Adams is back, will Poch experiment with a MMA midfield again, with McKennie as a #10? Or has that ship sailed?

 

Saying he doesn't have a plan is ludicrous, considering he already told us some part of the plan in a press conference. is he revealing his full plan? No. of course not. Why would he reveal his full plan in a press conference so the Jamaican coaches can hear it?

Coaches like Pochettino don't "wing it."

I think people get too caught up in position labels. That's not modern football.

What position does Yunus Musah play?

According to transfermarkt he's played games as a central midfielder, right midfielder, left midfielder, attacking midfielder, right winger, defensive midfielder, right back, support striker, and even yes..............left back.

Weston McKennie: central midfielder, defensive midfielder, right midfielder, attacking central midfielder, right back, center back, and even center forward.

I forgot about Schalke playing him as a centerback.

What is my point? Stop saying these guys are "natural" something or other. That's not how modern football works.

For Pete's sake.

Do people not remember Joe Scally playing left back for Gladbach?
Do people not remember Chris Richards playing left back for Bayern Munich?
Do people not remember Auston Trusty playing left back for Sheffield United?
Do people not remember Tim Weah playing left wingback for Lille?

We have guys on this roster that have played left back and can play left back.

Jos Scally has played left back for the USMNT.

For heaven's sake, Joe Scally played left back for 90 minutes against Uruguay in a World Cup tune-up.

Did we concede 6 goals? No, we shut them out. That was against Darwin Nunez of Liverpool and Maxi Gomez of Valencia as forwards. They brought Edison Cavani off the bench as well.

Do people remember Mark McKenize starting at LB for the USMNT? I certainly do.
4-1 win over Honduras in a World Cup Qualifier.

 

How many away games did Berhalter win, grand total?