Pre-match: Concacaf Nations League Quarterfinals @ Jamaica (Nov 14) & v Jamaica (Nov 18)

re the MF discussion, for a team with a bunch of hustling diesels i saw very moderate ball winning ability last window. i then saw a team that while initially more active showing to the ball, was sloppy in possession and struggled to make/string positive passes facing forward.

there is a reason the team is qualitatively better with reyna out there, it's because he's an actual bona fide center mid who can work in tight spaces, dribble people, go to goal, or thread a needle pass to set someone up. we then can possess the ball and also have a central threat as opposed to just wing crossing.

they badly need him back, and in the interim need to find players with at least some of that skillset, where we can possess the ball and create centrally. everyone cannot be some diesel banger. and to me if we're gonna line up a diesel banger he needs to be more adams playkiller and less two way mush.

 

Carrying true backup RBs was often a Berhalter squad building mistake. I would say that’s more a “label” than “system” thing.

 

Makes no sense to me to start both Cardoso and Tillman. Midfield would get completely overrun. Morris might slightly improve things but only slightly.

 

Would have liked to see Caleb Wiley on this roster - at least give him a shot if you're going to give Lund a shot.

 

Maybe, but if the solution for FB trouble is to play a wingback there, then that sounds like shifting how the teams sets up a bit in order to get the “best” players on the field.

 

I just can’t agree, seen too many club games. At the club level these are 2/4 of our most ball secure players. If this is true, then their mentalities are ********ed.

 

tillman is the only one of the bunch who seems to occasionally do something productive in a competitive contest. johnny has repeatedly been exposed for defense, and for him and morris people are way overblowing being involved in offense against NZ.

maybe quit calling the people who lose to mexico and can't beat NZ.

 

Have you seen Johnny’s games against Barca, Madrid, and Atletico? I’ll take my answer off the air.

 

Johnny is a very effective defender in his space. I'm concerned about Tillman, but I don't have issues with Johnny unless we ask him to do too much.

 

Perhaps another explanation would be to look at the areas of the field where there are more players than we might normally expect. The majority of players that we would probably consider to be in (or at least very close) to the current first 22-23 are cms and or forwards. The only exceptions are Dest, and CCV.

It is entirely possible, imo, that Poch wants to have the flexibility to evaluate a few more players in person and that the risk of not having a dedicated outside back to cover an injury or suspension to Jedi or Scally is balanced by having an adequate (but perhaps not the best) backup plan for two players that have been pretty durable and by the potential reward of being able to better evaluate some players in critical areas of the field...especially up top, central midfield and cb.

I don't know what his opinion of Fossey is, he probably has a little bit better feel for Lund but either way, I'm sure he wants to get scoring, central midfield and central defense taken care of first.

 

Is he? I recall he is a lot like old Ream (maybe new Ream) -- looks good for periods but is good for a couple of completely blown moments near the top of the box that are not acceptable for a 6 or defending 8. He turns off or something, or just gets muscled out at odd times. He's has presented a bit like Aaronson in the tackle -- looks like he should win it, but doesn't. For BA, it doesn't matter so much far from goal, but for Johnny it's no bueno.

I think Morris, who has similar issues, but more deriving from a quickness standpoint, has made strides here and might be preferable. Though it hurts to say that because I don't really think Morris is A-team caliber.

 

I think looking at options and trying players out are great ideas -- except not in games that matter.

Not aimed at you, Mahtzo1, and I hate to be the one to tell everybody this, but the US is not winning the WC. And whether the US gets grouped or makes the quarters will depend more on the draw, health of the pool, and the variability of an individual game or game moment than anything Pochettino tries out or considers in this window. So I think he should be trying to win this window above any other consideration expect player health -- certainly above auditioning players for future roles. I am not sure that's how he sees it. Not saying he doesn't, and I am sure he wants to win, but just not sure secondary objectives aren't getting too much juice .

Hey, the team could perform radically differently than they did against Mexico! And the last time the US played in Jamaica, they got Antonio-ed (right?), so improvement will be easy enough to see.

 

The issues I've seen with Johnny defensively from us have seemed to come from Johnny, offensively. He is ball secure and a good short passer, but his confidence seems to outplay his skill. With us, at least. He'll try to dribble control the ball against three guys or thread in a pass that can't make it, and then he's in trouble because he doesn't really have top recovery speed.

I haven't watched a ton of him with club but I kind of suspect that he has a bit more fear in La Liga, and passes off quicker / quickly finds an easy pass.

I think he's one of those guys who Pochettino will help a ton because one of Berhalter's biggest gaps tactically to me was really movement and patterns in the build up. We were very static and too often the passer had nowhere to go ... but our own players just stood there. Changing that will help.

Morris is more aggressive and has better recovery speed. He's also really improved as a progressive passer since last year. But he is a risk taker -- Nancy encouraged that -- without being an elite player. In MLS, that works -- we will see if ends up with a coach who doesn't value the upside as much as the downside. Morris without that aggression is not a good player, though.

 

Pochettino's first order of business, I think, at least listening to him, is to get the team back to believing in itself and getting some of that confidence back. I think he is thinking intensity comes with that.

He's big on belief.

I think winning Nations League is important, and if there was one big issue with losing to Mexico, it's that it continued the blahs that we had all summer. Losing to Jamaica to try out guys or whatever is a mistake. We've tried wake up calls. We need some wins, I think,.

 

i think youre equating wb with fb- puli has certainly never played fb, nor have musah or wes (unless it was at schalke where i think he got a match or two at gk. you didnt list richards but he and trusty "can" (and have played a very little) fb because of their length they can chew up yards to cover space wide you dont really want them to be a lot. ream is similar but inarguably has aged well out of that as even a really bad idea option.

thats actually really interesting. paredes and wiley (obviously looking beyond this camp) and imo, are far more viable as wingers who help back rather than defending being a primary component of their role. scally could go to the cb/lcb but with mckenzie/trusty/ream (if you must) doesnt really need to, whoever at ccb with scally and richards/miles/mckenzie far more viable as a cb/rcb. weah could play that outright rwb/inverse jedi- but i think you have to flip puli to the right as well, though, to keep the same dynamic of his moving central and that wb proving support/width.

lwb for these two matches, though, yikes. possibly weah (obv im huge on him in general), puli (not ideal but we are talking an unlikely scenario) and wes is up for anything. and i dont think jamaica actually poses a ton of danger in wide final third areas. we talk a lot about bailey but when has he ever really hurt us? over the last decade or so the times theyve given us trouble were on defensive breakdowns in the middle of the pitch. speaking of inversions thats the accepted take- good on the wings, but no cm- but it rarely plays out that way.

anyways, interesting thought flipping the "system", it certainly provides more options/validity big picture and moving forward.

 

as with most of the club snobs you seem to have the 2 streams confused. we have a growing list of guys whose fanboys think they do stuff for club who look the same crap for country. sargent being the most prominent example.

his 2 most recent NT starts were the canada loss and the colombia loss.

with us, that is all i care about, we lost his starts and his defense was sporadic. if it even matters past that point for a DM, the supposed attacking upside is just as sporadic. we can't be calling guys because you liked 1 pass they made -- from deep inside the box that DMs don't usually make -- producing no goals, while playing meh defense. if we are going to call MFs for passing, i can name a list better than him.

this needs to go "more reyna" -- which he is not -- or "more adams" -- which he is also not.

and before you get to full pouting, i was pro johnny based on his early terrier caps. but over time i saw he's a little too hit and miss on defense like mckennie. caught out of spot. loses ball in possession. we need more guys where attacks just end or get turned back, over and over. not this mush and then a bunch of fanboys talking about how he plays a la liga schedule despite the fact all that got us last 2 starts was big losses.

 

after NCAA soccer was done, and a couple years of men's league, i switched to another sport. in that sport confidence is encouraged, but my coach's theory is you have to be able to play the game right first to have anything but fake confidence. in short -- real confidence is earned.

part of the US' problem for years has been the malfunctioning tactics mean they can't beat anyone any good -- at all. not even on accident. you need to steal the odd game to get the confidence it can happen and the understanding how. our tactics are better at deflating the ball -- killing games -- than winning soccer games. and we play them from 0-0. keepaway is how to finish off 2-0 and steal games and build confidence. keepaway is not how to start games. it's a good way of keeping away wins.

you either need to change the tactics -- not happening soon -- or change some people. the barca/ajax type teams we are imitating tend to sell out on offense. more technical players than we use. they do not try to possess with 18 wheeler rigs and dump trucks. do we actually look like a team capable of passing teams to death?

or, i understood poch's wrinkle was win MF balls, quick outlet forward, play transition ball. i saw one play like that the whole last 2 games and it was CP running back to do it. so your answer is? those same MF get an encore? are you serious?

you leave the same people out there to play similarly and you cannot fake confidence. you can demand higher effort -- which i saw -- but nothing i saw last window screamed improved technical execution, mismatch creation, pure speed, beating teams aerially, leakproof defense.....or some other basis for winning soccer games, which would create actual, real confidence. as in, this NT used to occasionally beat spain or germany or holland. you then have real confidence to go toe to toe next time.

now arrogance -- plenty. we seem to think we can run the same guys out, change coaches, roll the ball out....play a little harder.....and then magic. that's fake confidence. i thought we learned that this summer or were drubbed out of the olympics.

and the answer to the A team laying copa eggs is surely not start bringing in B teamers who lost gold cup semis.

make. actual. changes.

 

Give. It. A. Minute.

He’s had one camp. He’s not knee deep in this for years like you and I. Let him have the space to work his process.
If we’re still ass in the summer, I’ll jump on the bash Poch train with you, but I gotta see what his plans are first. Seems to me he’s rolling with what came before for NL, and I’m guessing if that doesn’t go well, we’ll see a lot of change.
I’m not a patient person, generally, but you make me look like a saint.

 

i don't care if you consider me impatient. we are trying to play a particular style of play. that style of play demands a particular type of player. the one guy suited to it is hurt -- reyna. maybe CP. the rest are athletic and a little sloppy. some don't even belong on a NT.

you either call more technical players for keepaway tiki taka ball. or did you miss the last 2 games of us trying to build then turning it over first pass from a mid?

or you use poch's transition ideas, but then you need people who can actually win battles then hit a 30 yard pass to a running forward with the right lead and weight.

that is not impatience. that is basic diagnosis. you cannot teach sloppy players to become possession spanish players overnight. you either change the people, or you quit trying to play tiki taka soccer. nor can you win transition pressing style if you don't win the ball up high or in the MF much, but instead by defenders or your keeper deep on your own end.

you cannot change the style and abilities of our developed 20-30 year old players, by hiring a coach to try to tell them to play different. you either start teaching 5 year olds how we want to play, like barca with la masia, or you find more technical guys in the system, or you play some other tactics and formation that suit the athleticism/sloppy mix we have.

to me we should be a counter soccer team. swarm the midblock or deep, then speed downfield. then musah and mckennie are no longer possession-killing slop. they are athletes racing downfield to crash the box. what they are good at.

you have swallowed the kool aid. look at the player pool. look at what we are trying to do. this roster it's a mismatch. so either change who we use. or change how we play.

that's not impatience, it's fact. we've been trying some variant of this for 6 years. that's plenty patient. the problems are obvious.

 

No. The answer is clearly no.

 

I doubt he even knows how he wants to play just yet. He needs to get a handle on what he’s working with first.
But whatever, you’re hell bent on hysterics, I won’t change that.

 

i guess it's a snob thing to keep throwing around "but poch." poch coaches a style fairly similar to the previous coach. and thus far with basically the previous coach's people.

the only big difference i saw was more running off ball and generally higher energy.

i did see some clever small tweaks like keeping the RB back and swinging the DM out right side. but, heck, i remember something similar being proposed for adams by GB. and jedi has always liked to cheat up, and that also has its risk. this is not new just because we make an assymetry game of how it's done.

there need to be more changes and i assumed when we hired a coach with a similar concept it would be more in the manner of personnel. which to me i am actually watching regress a little. like let's bring in the B team and call that an answer. pffft

i am giving the man time but the man never sold a dramatic change. so why a ton of time.

 

how the heck do you possibly know what you have when you xerox the call sheets from what came before you as well as yourself in your second window.

fake news. if he wanted to get to know the pool -- which i would support -- fresh bodies. i propose that and people chuckle. you don't actually want him to try different. or get a handle on the pool. you assume this is it despite all results.

 

Everyone sux. Only fanboys think otherwise.

 

Maybe he’s not as quick to turnover players as you’d like, but it’s already happening (no Lund), and all the injuries make it trickier.
I don’t think it’s silly to want to look at different players, I just laugh that since it hasn’t happened on your timeline in his second camp for a tourney that actually counts sends you into a panic.