Pre-match: Concacaf Nations League Quarterfinals @ Jamaica (Nov 14) & v Jamaica (Nov 18)

He does some things really well (pressing, tackling, passing, attacking the box). He is in England, his team sits 7th, one place out of promotion playoffs, he could up the rest of his game taking into consideration his late blooming American background. He was with the Olympic team which really missed him when Boro didn't release him. We'd seen in games with u23's that he makes an impact. He has a good manager at Boro. He was recruited by Herdman and Marsch but told both that he only wanted to play for the USA, even when Berhalter wasn't calling him in to senior team.

He's getting a deserved chance. Maybe he wins a spot, maybe not. He makes sense in this camp.

 

you think the Musah/Scally duo played good last window? If I was the coach I would have assessed that as a huge fail and have moved away from that earlier. There would be zero chance I would play that again. We got nothing in the attack going forward on that side.

 

hes played 3 better matches than malik tillman ever has for the nats.

 

i think theres a real lack of understanding re how we played last window.

out of possession and defending scally was a third cb. none of musah, weah, etc can do that (nor dest, for that matter). its like a 75/25 cb/rb split. that role scally played isnt attacking in any phase, its connecting. its adding passing to the back, moving the ball to our ball playing cms and the rm- who helps back when expressly defending but isnt a wingback. jedi is a wingback, with the left of the two "center" backs flaring wider in possession/attack.

ream shouldnt even be playing that lcb role, cause he cant even cover that much ground (as we saw last window). if ream ever plays for jedi we are all the way f'ed.

dest is the only real replacement/sub for jedi we have. lund and tolkin (not that we have any way of knowing) are stopgaps, with wiley and paredes nowhere on the -back development path with their clubs. and while im a big fan, i dont think covering the entire left side is a role scally is really suited for.

thats why this setup is so tenuous, cause right now scally is the only guy who can play the role hes playing. richards (when fit) may be able to and maloney may be able to (not that we have any way of knowing), which is why i dont know that this backline "system" is viable long term.

but dest, weah, musah, wes (imo aaronson could probably do alright in this current rm role) arent in "competition", interchangeable with or in any way comparable to scally right now. there are two very distinct roles way too many people are trying to make a "rb" thing. our two "cb" cbs are interchangeable (though most guys are more suited to one or the other), but that hybrid rb/rcb isnt a role many of our guys at all can play.

 

Poch gets to see him, Johnny and Tessman, Musah and McKennie at the same time and see how they compare. How they work when Adams is gone and which one he thinks is the best pairing when he is back.

 

Pochettino seems to value players over systems, which is completely fine as far as it goes. But it does put a premium on player performance. Will be interesting to see if the players are dialed-in from the outset. I hope it doesn't take Pochettino long to figure out that resumes don't work in CONCACAF and that valuable role players with name clubs don't suddenly become bell cows with the Nats.

 

I love this question ...

Trusty
Ream
Antonee
Scally
McKenzie
Musah
McKennie
Pulisic
Weah

It's 9. We're finally moving beyond the era where every Yank eventually plays right back, but fully half of the field players have played fullback. Some not very much, but still. Plus, the "top guys not on the roster" group with Adams, Maloney, LDLT, Dest, Wiley, CCV, Reynolds ... have all played fullback. I guess Reynolds and CCV never did it in a top five league, but still.

Is it a little strange to have neither Lund or Fossey on this roster? Sure. Is it negligent? Probably not. Scally and Weah can both play both sides, if needed.

 

And he's having the best season of his career as a lock starter for a promotion contender. We've never been good enough where that resume wasn't in the mix for every roster window.

 

Ream was a disaster out wide in space for the NT. When Gregg did it he was a fool; now if Poch does he's a genius. I hope to not see it, or him period. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if he was parked in the center of the home game where we should be able to play a lower line and shouldn't have a problem playing thru. But it's not ideal versatility, coverage, or information.

We should facilitate a high line at The Office. Last time we played there we had some joy in the 1st 15 minutes w/ a high line. Then when it broke down we couldn't play out & it was a struggle. Should have lost at the death from Zimmerman getting dunked on.

Whatever we decide to do at CB in these games is going to be key, & will carry some questions. If McKenzie shows some leadership in build-up for a competitive match, it'll be the 1st time. He killed us at Panama in wcq'ing. His former club teammate's mental makeup would be more trusty, but ball-playing's not exactly his forte.

A lot of talk about 3 ATB and pulling progressors like Musah out wide. If you play the 343 you need even more players who have solutions how to broke a press. Provided Musah's told to be high and wide like last camp, he could go missing, & so could our build-up. You're hurting yourself at 2 positions. That should have been a lesson Poch learned. But we're like who needs more fb's, cuz then you might not have a guy playing in a top 5 league/ucl. That elitism & idealism could really disrupt our functionality. If Musah's shunted wide, at least he could serve a purpose in the build-up like Dest. Sit close to Scally & hold his hand.

If Pulisic is compelled to come back and add a # in midfield, offensively and defensively, then Pepi & Weah should form a strike partnership & run off the outside of the opposing cb's for an outlet option. Instead of Pulisic hoping Pepi gets open 1 on 2, and in the meantime dribbling into cul de sacs again, as we get frustrated w/ him, & overall.

 

Well, not nothing, as we did get a goal out of Musah.

In isolation, it's not a very good offensive set up for sure. I think with Weah, that dynamic changes a bit more as he's simply a better offensive player. But he's not here for game one.

It was reliable defensively, though, and if Pochettino wants to continue to pursue the 3 ATB + box build up, then Scally remains a decent option for that set up, especially if we want to slide into a 4 ATB defense.

You can put Weston there, and he's a far superior offensive player. It will push him wider than I'd like him and further back -- and he's not the best in the deep build-out. You're reducing his touches and taking him out of the middle defensively.

Wes has shown pretty good instincts when forward with Juve to know when to come inside to attack from there and is pretty good about causing defensive chaos as an extra defender coming into the middle. But putting Tillman centrally is not really allowing him to play extra man so much as requiring him to cover at times.

Perhaps if you tossed Musah back with Johnny and basically told them to defend, that covers for Tillman. And Christian being there plus a weaker Jamaica midfield probably helps with the fact that he didn't come back at all last window.

So:

----------- Pepi -------------
CP-----------------------McK
----------Tillman-------------
-----Musah---Johnny-----
Jedi---------------------Scally

That could work as well. You have to be careful with Musah's runs forward, but even if you limit that, it's not that big a loss.

Another alternative would be going to a straight 3 ATB with 3 real CBs. That probably requires moving Musah in game 1 to a straight RWB. I guess you could put Weston there as well. I don't think that gives more offense, either, and I suspect that the asymmetrical aspect to the setup had something to do with not asking Musah to play that defensive role, but I could be wrong.

The downside is that I think it can be a bit tougher to press out of that set up and you are putting a lot of pressure on the wingbacks to get up and down. I guess it depends on who the RW is.

So something very similar would be a truer 343 with perhaps Weston at RW (or Brenden) and Musah at RWB with three true CBs across the back?

The roster actually implies this quite a bit. And it makes a lot of sense if Jamaica is going to 2 strikers. The traditional counter to two strikers is often 3 ATB, especially if you aren't too worried about the wide midfielders. I don't think that latter part is true, but I do think if Jamaica goes 442, we should be able to control the midfield. Which means a backline of guys who can keep aerial balls from them will be important.

I don't know if we see that game 1, though, with Antonio out and Bailey in.

Either way the attacking dynamic doesn't change much from what I proposed -- Musah is still the right width player, but the defensive formation might change a bit. You get Scally off for a backline that might be something like Ream - Richards - McKenzie or something covered by the same CMs you'd have picked before.

I would really love to see Christian-Weston and Tillman all in the middle behind a striker, but to do that and still have any kind of width on the right side to create space for them, you need someone out there and the only available player would be a RB. (Alternatively, you could push up from the middle, but that's asking for it.) Do you trust Musah to get up and down like Jedi against a team with speed? He's physically capable but it would seem a lot to ask him to shade offensive. Perhaps you can live without the width or Weston can do it more.

You could do either of the above and really just focus on the left side but that doesn't seem like the greatest plan, either.

This is of course limiting us to be pretty close to how we played last time. We could of course do a hundred different things, but this is where I'm not a coach -- the changes here should be driven by the expected things Jamaica does and personnel... I'm not up enough on Jamaica nor actually a coach so I don't know if Jamaica's RCB and RB pairing are weaker or whatever.

I do know that their midfield tends to be their weakness, but that Lowe roughed us up as a CDM last time so I'd rather keep Brenden out of the middle, especially on the road. I also remember that their left back absolutely stoned Weah over and over last time, so I'm not sure we're getting much one on one offense there anyway. Aerial play is probably a waste of time except on set pieces, and so it seems busting it up the gut probably isn't a terrible idea.

 

I'm no real proponent of the 343 because I like to have numbers in the midfield* but does Jamaica press at all? I really can't remember them applying pressure to us ever. I think they may have a new coach again, so maybe they do now.

@Athlone can maybe tell us.


* Poch's 343 would absolutely look exactly like we did last time in the build up with the two wingers pinching in to provide a midfield box and then moving forward. So it's probably less of a concern.

 

They did in Kingston. And I think individually their close down ability gives some of our players problems, whether it's an organized press or not. Caused Morris problems at home.

As you complained about last time, Musah & Tillman didn't come back to the ball. Just hung out high and wide. So that left us high and dry.

 

Did they? I really don't remember that but I will take your word for it. I really don't remember Jamaica ever having much of a press.

Musah was never really supposed to play a major role there -- Tillman didn't come back and Aaronson simply got little brothered.

I do think that's different with Christian, but it's also why I preferred Weston in the other side of the box -- he may not be the most ball secure, but he can go toe to toe with Damian Lowe.

I would not be as concerned about ball progression with Christian and Weston there.

 

I wish every guy on these boards who goes after Ream would have one camp with USMNT so they can understand what it's like to not have anybody who can pass out of the back AND is left footed. Since they are unlikely to be named manager for USA, I suggest folks just go find the 0-3 loss to Mexico under Gregg.

Our coaches keep doing it. Hudson had nobody to pass out of the back thinking "no sweat I'll just put Aiden there" and we went on to watch our best Jan camp xi struggle to do anything meaningful at all because the CAM had to come back to pick up the ball from Aiden. Result? Everybody goes on to talk about how bad the team and individual players are.

Ream is there to make the team go.

AS far as 343 goes, teams that use it will go to the WB to stay wide and pull the opponent out wide in order to go inside. Not sure where a problem with press is and Musah isn't really "press resistant" as people think. He only dribbles these days when he has a clear lane - as he will as a wb? Make sense? You say it hurts us in the build up - Musah isn't good at build up in the cmid position. Poch knows what he's doing. b.t.w., America seems to be the last redoubt of vintage fullback-ism. "We can't advance the ball without Dest" they say on BS. Let's see how well Musah does.

Musah last 365 days all comps fbref (percentilie v. Midfielders):
Goals 12
SOG 1
Passes attempted 25
Tackles 23
Interceptions 4
Times tackled during take on's 16
Miscontrols 12
Ball recoveries 9

Does that look like a cmid to you? If you go down fbref's percentiles for other areas of expertise, oh, let's say progressive carries/receptions, isn't that what a wb does? That's a lot of green in those areas.
Yunus Musah Scouting Report for Last 365 Days Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL | FBref.com

I was worried about Poch defaulting to badge before his hire. That's hard to argue when he brings in Aiden and Brenden and Zendejas, etc.

 

You just have to keep on keepin on. I kept betting on the same horse at the track and eventually lost all my money but eventually the horse did ok so I was right all along and made sure everybody knew it when I was panhandling for rent.

 

you could not have ever played wingback in a 343 or 352 if you don't think you need subs out there. it. is. exhausting. sole responsibility for all the green space out there. sprint up, get back. get caught up, goal.

 

i do not understand why this seems to be evolving in the direction of incorporating the utter crap B teamers who lost in a semi, eg, cowell, morris, zendejas.

to me if the B team can't win -- and we see that about every january or mexico B game or gold cup lately -- that hints you should be looking to the developmentals instead. ie age groupers. eg campbell. that the B team is basically the matured washouts as opposed to the greats in waiting.

the big problem with the US right now is it's a very closed loop. we seem to assume the tactics are headed the right way despite 6 years' hint otherwise. and we just sucked for about 2 years straight and fired the coach and are still calling most of the same people plus now regressing back to some B team cuts and dropped players, eg, steffen, zendejas, cowell. we tried them. they all kind of stunk. steffen blew the costa rica away game.

open the tactical discussion back up. and reopen roster competition. quit assuming we have a clue what we have been doing.

to me we have the best player pool of anyone in the region but have basically regressed back to 3rd or 4th regionally as we insist on stupid tactics and the fanboys watching TV seem to pick lineups. it's time for adult tactical decisions and we start playing 11s of guys who show up game days and can play together to some end. either a lot more offense, or tighter defense. and i mean as a unit, not send pulisic into the corner and watch him dance. more cheap dead ball goals. more team goals. more of an apparent idea how we are trying to create a goal. more combination play like we ever played together. less slow tempo. less iso ball.

and get some 6s and backs in there who can win balls and stop transitions dead. everyone gets to knock it around on us. some of that is adams but surely someone else besides adams can play 6? or we can come up with some overloaded formation to accomplish the same thing.

 

i can save him a lot of time on a ton of his choices. just take a week of time on your $3-4m salary, between windows, and watch some US tape for 2 years or so. you would cut about 1/2 of the team having done so. we can then move forward to who else to try.

i mean when i hear people like he just wants to see them in camp or in games and evaluate. years of tape on what happens. do we really have to try it his way too with the same people?

it's very simple. the 6 and backs are ineffective and ship too many. including passing giveaways. the central mids are sloppy diesel engine turnover machines who do not counterbalance that by killing transitions.

now, the forwards (and reyna when healthy) are actual quality, but they interact and make runs like they never played together. pulisic on the ball is james harden iso ball. for a team in 433 we stay too much in positional slots, we do not wall ball and combine, and we are too willing to take it to the flag and whack a cross instead of get it to feet in the box. and most of the time we don't have a target in the box to head those low percenters in the net.

and the deadballs are brutal but that's probably because the mids are diesel engines, and pulisic is half baked taking kicks instead of in the box where he might knock something in.

the fundamental tensions in the team are (a) between DMs picked to hustle and wingbacks picked to get down the line and play attacking soccer and (b) between Fs picked to be played behind the offsides line and jedi picked to whack lofted balls to the 6.

this is not on a single page as tactics or personnel, hasn't been for 6 years. i think poch is brighter than GB and already caught on to he needs vazquez for cross finishing. but that should really be plan B for something else which isn't cohered either on offense or defense yet since poch and USSF seem stuck on a losing squad.

 

Is this just a random list of players??

 

it's called either USSF is picking his teams for him (and he parachutes in to coach the call sheet) -- hence they look just like usual -- or he is of a similar mind where he's going to "lag" first team pro proof of concept.

the US to me has done historically well betting on its own sense of beasley or donovan or green. like being willing to get them rolling when they were age groupers. for some reason, maybe club snobbery, we have become stingy about incorporating this generation of richards, weah, reyna, and now this kid. no thought seems to go into how hard it is to break into PSG, bayern, or dortmund. that reyna is a star for us and can barely manage more playing time than campbell.

to me it's just watch the kid play. dude at U19 germany can ball. same as reyna was. i don't need their effing seal of approval. i don't have to wait for him to be a dortmund starter. bring the kid in.

Renowned Schalke U19 manager Norbert Elgert on Cole Campbell: "Cole Campbell is a Bundesliga player. He would be a regular in our first team. He is brutally good."

the goofiest thing of all is listening to club snobs defend our slow-walk of our best prospects. if anyone should know that being on, say, dortmund B, is a big deal, it should be a snob. as the schalke guy suggests, he'd be a regular anyplace else. so that should be the objective talent eval.

we sandbag all our good players for being in good funnels. anyone remember when GB sent about half the current starters down to U23? then had most of them back by qualifying? is this any way to run a railroad?

y'all act like the starters are an undefeated perfectly selected juggernaut. check the fixture list sometime. you're confused. maybe your shoe you threw at the TV last US game ricocheted back and hit you in the head.

there should be maybe 3-4 sure thing roster slots right now then a free for all. pulisic, weah, turner. after that, show me why you and not the next guy. if you do that then you might also get your motivation, effort, and performance. they are too used to being handed it and yet we keep doing it that way.

 

are you about to tell me this glorified mix of struggling first team and B teamers is that good? i see way too many guys who couldn't beat panama on the B team, us pretending like that's any good, because they did something like sign with norwich or monterrey.

campbell will be 5x the player cowell is. he is as fast and precisely skilled in the areas where cowell is not, eg, finishing.

the quicker we get off this dumb dumb dumb busio cowell zendejas B team lovefest, the better. the results are starting to look B team too.

 

If Jedi is out Poch needs to look at flipping the asymmetry of his system. Scally could go to LB/LCB. McKenzie and Richards (probably not fit+in form this window) can start there and they have better lefts than Joe. Trusty can also do it. I am not as down on Ream there as you but I would not do it. I would start Ream, if at all, at LCB/CCB. Then Wes/Musah/Tim/Joe could be RB/RWB.

The problem is who becomes the LWB in possession. Wes has played some LM and so has Tim. Pulisic has absolutely done it but it’s a waste of his talents in our team context. So the solutions aren’t great fits and if it’s Joe as the option for RWB that’s another hit to the attack.

Jedi being out would create a lot of problems and would almost certainly require a system change. If not a flip of the rotations then an entire reworking to match the available talent.

 

What do you mean by that in this context? Poch played the exact same system in both his games as manager, despite losing key players between games and significantly different external factors. He also seems to have picked a roster that fits that same system.

 

does no one remember the swiss or canada torching ream c. 2019-21?

there's a reason dude disappeared from the LB pool and then only reappeared as a CB at qatar as an injury replacement after half the backline options went on crutches, eg, richards, miles.

 

I am picking up mostly on the explanations for no true backup FB. Most have been responding that one of the other players can cover it and that they are simply better players (apparently even at FB) than Lund or Fossey.