Perhaps he should choose a different title for the chart. It's not really "league coefficient" but "federation coefficient". All the Canadian teams are grouped together, all the American, Caribbean, etc.
Good point. If an NASL or USL team were to win the US Open Cup, their subsequent performance in the CCL would still reflect on the US in ArsenalMetro's coefficient.
CSL is the top recognized league in Canada, but it is not a National league, more like a regional league (Ontario).
I thought that in Europe the coefficient for the country can be improved by a club...I.E...If a club makes it far in Ch. League and/or Europa League,it improves the coefficient for the clubs from the country for next season etc...
It does. That's why Canada's coefficient for 2008-09 (Montreal's run) is high, but for 2009-10 (Toronto knocked out in the prelims) is really low.
After 2010-11 quarterfinals, first leg: Movement: - Saprissa over Atlante - Columbus over Olimpia - Real Salt Lake over Arabe Unido - Monterrey over Houston - Seattle over San Francisco Code: Federation Coefficient Nation 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Mexico 19.500 23.125 15.500 58.125 Honduras 12.750 8.333 7.833 28.917 Canada 16.500 0.500 11.500 28.500 CFU 9.167 8.000 5.833 23.000 United States 4.625 8.375 9.375 22.375 Panama 9.250 7.000 2.333 18.583 Guatemala 5.000 6.000 5.250 16.250 Costa Rica 5.750 3.167 7.250 16.167 El Salvador 5.250 3.500 4.000 12.750 Nicaragua 0.500 0.000 0.000 0.500 Belize 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 Club Coefficient Club 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Cruz Azul 23.4167 29.6313 15.1667 68.2147 UNAM 16.4167 22.6313 0.0000 39.0480 Toluca 0.0000 22.6313 13.1667 35.7980 Marathon 14.2500 13.7500 6.6111 34.6111 Santos 19.4167 0.0000 15.1667 34.5834 Puerto Rico 17.0556 5.6400 7.9444 30.6400 Pachuca 0.0000 28.6313 0.0000 28.6313 Saprissa 8.9167 5.0450 12.4167 26.3784 Atlante 25.4167 0.0000 0.0000 25.4167 Columbus 0.0000 10.7638 13.1250 23.8888 Olimpia 10.2500 0.0000 12.6111 22.8611 Monterrey 0.0000 0.0000 19.1667 19.1667 Houston 10.5417 7.7638 0.0000 18.3055 Montreal 16.5000 0.0000 0.0000 16.5000 Municipal 6.6667 0.0000 7.7500 14.4167 Real Salt Lake0.0000 0.0000 14.1250 14.1250 Arabe Unido 0.0000 10.3100 2.7778 13.0878 D.C. United 2.5417 9.7638 0.0000 12.3055 Comunicaciones0.0000 9.9800 0.0000 9.9800 Toronto FC 0.0000 0.0000 9.8333 9.8333 Tauro 9.0833 0.0000 0.0000 9.0833 Joe Public 5.0556 0.0000 2.9444 8.0000 L.A. Firpo 7.7500 0.0000 0.0000 7.7500 W Connection 0.0000 7.6400 0.0000 7.6400 Real Espana 0.0000 6.7500 0.0000 6.7500 Seattle 0.0000 0.0000 5.1250 5.1250 San Francisco 5.0833 0.0000 0.0000 5.0833 FAS 0.0000 0.0000 3.3333 3.3333 Isidro Metapan0.0000 3.1550 0.0000 3.1550 SJ Jabloteh 0.0000 2.6400 0.0000 2.6400
After 2010-11 quarterfinals Movement: - United States over CFU - Costa Rica over Guatemala - Santos over Marathon - Saprissa over Pachuca - Salt Lake over Municipal, Montreal Code: Federation Coefficient Nation 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Mexico 19.500 23.125 17.000 59.625 Honduras 12.750 8.333 7.833 28.917 Canada 16.500 0.500 11.500 28.500 United States 4.625 8.375 10.125 23.125 CFU 9.167 8.000 5.833 23.000 Panama 9.250 7.000 2.333 18.583 Costa Rica 5.750 3.167 8.750 17.667 Guatemala 5.000 6.000 5.250 16.250 El Salvador 5.250 3.500 4.000 12.750 Nicaragua 0.500 0.000 0.000 0.500 Belize 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 Club Coefficient Club 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Cruz Azul 23.4167 29.6313 18.6667 71.7147 UNAM 16.4167 22.6313 0.0000 39.0480 Toluca 0.0000 22.6313 13.6667 36.2980 Santos 19.4167 0.0000 15.6667 35.0834 Marathon 14.2500 13.7500 6.6111 34.6111 Puerto Rico 17.0556 5.6400 7.9444 30.6400 Saprissa 8.9167 5.0450 15.9167 29.8784 Pachuca 0.0000 28.6313 0.0000 28.6313 Atlante 25.4167 0.0000 0.0000 25.4167 Columbus 0.0000 10.7638 13.3750 24.1388 Olimpia 10.2500 0.0000 12.6111 22.8611 Monterrey 0.0000 0.0000 22.6667 22.6667 Houston 10.5417 7.7638 0.0000 18.3055 Salt Lake 0.0000 0.0000 17.3750 17.3750 Montreal 16.5000 0.0000 0.0000 16.5000 Municipal 6.6667 0.0000 7.7500 14.4167 Arabe Unido 0.0000 10.3100 2.7778 13.0878 D.C. United 2.5417 9.7638 0.0000 12.3055 Comunicaciones0.0000 9.9800 0.0000 9.9800 Toronto FC 0.0000 0.0000 9.8333 9.8333 Tauro 9.0833 0.0000 0.0000 9.0833 Joe Public 5.0556 0.0000 2.9444 8.0000 L.A. Firpo 7.7500 0.0000 0.0000 7.7500 W Connection 0.0000 7.6400 0.0000 7.6400 Real Espana 0.0000 6.7500 0.0000 6.7500 Seattle 0.0000 0.0000 5.3750 5.3750 San Francisco 5.0833 0.0000 0.0000 5.0833 FAS 0.0000 0.0000 3.3333 3.3333 Isidro Metapan0.0000 3.1550 0.0000 3.1550 SJ Jabloteh 0.0000 2.6400 0.0000 2.6400
Updated coefficients based on advancement through rounds: 2010-11 Pts/Teams Mex 8/4* USA 4/4* CR 2/2* Can 1/1 Carib 2/3 Hon 2/3 ES 1/2 Guat 0/2 Panama 0/3 Total in new format Pts/Teams Mex 33/12* Carib 9/9 Can 3/3 Hon 6/7 USA 7/12* Panama 4/7 CR 2/7* ES 1/6 Guat 1/6 Bel 0/1 Nic 0/1 *Can still gain points this year.
After 2010-11 semifinals, first leg: Movement: - Salt Lake over Houston - Monterrey over Columbus, Olimpia Code: Federation Coefficient Nation 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Mexico 19.500 23.125 17.500 60.125 Honduras 12.750 8.333 7.833 28.917 Canada 16.500 0.500 11.500 28.500 United States 4.625 8.375 10.625 23.625 CFU 9.167 8.000 5.833 23.000 Panama 9.250 7.000 2.333 18.583 Costa Rica 5.750 3.167 8.750 17.667 Guatemala 5.000 6.000 5.250 16.250 El Salvador 5.250 3.500 4.000 12.750 Nicaragua 0.500 0.000 0.000 0.500 Belize 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 Club Coefficient Club 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Cruz Azul 23.4167 29.6313 18.8333 71.8813 UNAM 16.4167 22.6313 0.0000 39.0480 Toluca 0.0000 22.6313 13.8333 36.4646 Santos 19.4167 0.0000 15.8333 35.2500 Marathon 14.2500 13.7500 6.6111 34.6111 Puerto Rico 17.0556 5.6400 7.9444 30.6400 Saprissa 8.9167 5.0450 15.9167 29.8784 Pachuca 0.0000 28.6313 0.0000 28.6313 Atlante 25.4167 0.0000 0.0000 25.4167 Monterrey 0.0000 0.0000 24.8333 24.8333 Columbus 0.0000 10.7638 13.5417 24.3055 Olimpia 10.2500 0.0000 12.6111 22.8611 Salt Lake 0.0000 0.0000 19.5417 19.5417 Houston 10.5417 7.7638 0.0000 18.3055 Montreal 16.5000 0.0000 0.0000 16.5000 Municipal 6.6667 0.0000 7.7500 14.4167 Arabe Unido 0.0000 10.3100 2.7778 13.0878 D.C. United 2.5417 9.7638 0.0000 12.3055 Comunicaciones0.0000 9.9800 0.0000 9.9800 Toronto FC 0.0000 0.0000 9.8333 9.8333 Tauro 9.0833 0.0000 0.0000 9.0833 Joe Public 5.0556 0.0000 2.9444 8.0000 L.A. Firpo 7.7500 0.0000 0.0000 7.7500 W Connection 0.0000 7.6400 0.0000 7.6400 Real Espana 0.0000 6.7500 0.0000 6.7500 Seattle 0.0000 0.0000 5.5417 5.5417 San Francisco 5.0833 0.0000 0.0000 5.0833 FAS 0.0000 0.0000 3.3333 3.3333 Isidro Metapan0.0000 3.1550 0.0000 3.1550 SJ Jabloteh 0.0000 2.6400 0.0000 2.6400
Do you know what is the hypothetical Max score a country could get in 1 year? I assume that it would be different depending on country. For example, Canada with only one team could win every single game and score very high. 2+6+2+2+2 = 14 wins by 1 team the USA and Mexico could win every game except the semi-finals and the finals. So the best they could do is win 42 games and lose 6 then divisible by 4 teams.
I just did some quick calculations, so they might be wrong, but the max numbers would be... 4 teams (2 prelim, 2 group): 26.5 coefficient (106 total) 3 teams (2 prelim, 1 group): 28.0 coefficient (84 total) 2 teams (1 prelim, 1 group): 30.0 coefficient (60 total) 1 team (1 prelim): 33.0 coefficient (33 total) In my opinion, Mexico's 2009-10 campaign is probably the closest we'll ever get to perfection. Every team won their group and their quarterfinal, and that's a difficult feat to match.
After 2010-11 semifinals Movement: - Costa Rica over Panama - Saprissa over Puerto Rico - Monterrey over Atlante Code: Federation Coefficient Nation 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Mexico 19.500 23.125 18.250 60.875 Honduras 12.750 8.333 7.833 28.917 Canada 16.500 0.500 11.500 28.500 United States 4.625 8.375 10.875 23.875 CFU 9.167 8.000 5.833 23.000 Costa Rica 5.750 3.167 9.750 18.667 Panama 9.250 7.000 2.333 18.583 Guatemala 5.000 6.000 5.250 16.250 El Salvador 5.250 3.500 4.000 12.750 Nicaragua 0.500 0.000 0.000 0.500 Belize 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 Club Coefficient Club 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Overall Cruz Azul 23.4167 29.6313 20.0833 73.1313 UNAM 16.4167 22.6313 0.0000 39.0480 Toluca 0.0000 22.6313 14.0833 36.7146 Santos 19.4167 0.0000 16.0833 35.5000 Marathon 14.2500 13.7500 6.6111 34.6111 Saprissa 8.9167 5.0450 18.2500 32.2117 Puerto Rico 17.0556 5.6400 7.9444 30.6400 Pachuca 0.0000 28.6313 0.0000 28.6313 Monterrey 0.0000 0.0000 27.0833 27.0833 Atlante 25.4167 0.0000 0.0000 25.4167 Columbus 0.0000 10.7638 13.6250 24.3888 Olimpia 10.2500 0.0000 12.6111 22.8611 Salt Lake 0.0000 0.0000 20.6250 20.6250 Houston 10.5417 7.7638 0.0000 18.3055 Montreal 16.5000 0.0000 0.0000 16.5000 Municipal 6.6667 0.0000 7.7500 14.4167 Arabe Unido 0.0000 10.3100 2.7778 13.0878 D.C. United 2.5417 9.7638 0.0000 12.3055 Comunicaciones0.0000 9.9800 0.0000 9.9800 Toronto FC 0.0000 0.0000 9.8333 9.8333 Tauro 9.0833 0.0000 0.0000 9.0833 Joe Public 5.0556 0.0000 2.9444 8.0000 L.A. Firpo 7.7500 0.0000 0.0000 7.7500 W Connection 0.0000 7.6400 0.0000 7.6400 Real Espana 0.0000 6.7500 0.0000 6.7500 Seattle 0.0000 0.0000 5.6250 5.6250 San Francisco 5.0833 0.0000 0.0000 5.0833 FAS 0.0000 0.0000 3.3333 3.3333 Isidro Metapan0.0000 3.1550 0.0000 3.1550 SJ Jabloteh 0.0000 2.6400 0.0000 2.6400
I know it's in no way feasible, but a quick idea I had if the CCL was determined on these, with the automatic qualifiers going straight into the groups and everyone else playing 1 playoff round: 1. Mexico (4 spots, 2 of them automatic) ------------------------------- 2. Honduras (3 spots, 1 automatic) 3. Canada (3 spots, 1 automatic) 4. USA (3 spots, 1 automatic) 5. CFU (3 spots, 1 automatic) ----------------------------- 6. Costa Rica (2 spots, 1 automatic) 7. Panama (2 spots) 8. Guatemala (2 spots) ---------------------- 9. El Salvador (1 spots) 10. Nicaragua (1 spot) 11. Belize (1 spot) Bit harsh on El Salvador but I wanted to give Costa Rica an automatic place, their pedigree in the competition seems to deserve it. The Canada/US thing should balance out in a few years, I can't see us (Canada) going anywhere but down once Montreal's miracle run gains less importance. Also, adding more qualifying rounds like in Europe would help to structure it differently to balance things more.
The Canadian part is a bit hard to follow and perhaps I misunderstood it. You think Canada will be going down as Montreal's run becomes less of a factor yet Canada would get 4 spots. Its hard to see Canada warranting 4 spots given there are currently only 4 teams in the Canadian championship.
Canada would probably get a max of 2 teams (until the UCC grows to more teams) They do have a good argument (for now) to have the Canada team go straight into the group stage at least.
Yeah Canada should go to the group stage direct but I think having half of the eligible teams in the CCL is a bit generous and all 4 makes no sense. I mean if they were as dominant as Mexico then I could see the argument for having half in but all 4 would still make no sense to me.
He was saying that, based on my coefficient, they should get 3 slots, 1 of which takes a team directly to the group stage, which is an argument I'm tempted to agree with. He isn't saying, however, that this would be a concrete thing, with Canada getting 3 spots for every tournament from here until the end of time; as the 2008-09 coefficient got phased out (Montreal's miracle run), Canada's standing in the coefficient would plummet, and they would get fewer teams entered later on as a result.
I know the slot allocation isn't until the end of time I get the concept of slot allocation. Having a country going from 1 slot to 3 when they only have 4 teams to chose from even if the numbers back it up is a concept that in practicality doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps you guys are speaking in hypothetical's of just going by the numbers and it isn't really the way you want slots allocated? If that the case then that was my misunderstanding.
Yeah, that's my take, at least. I would give Canada two, given their performances so far, but even that's stretching it. If the CSL teams (I know, lol) were eligible, then two would be easier to swallow.